David CO

You may be right. If you really think that is the case, why don't you recommend to your son that he resign as PL to get himself off the hot seat and out of the scout leaders bullseye.

That is exactly right. That's why I think your reaction is way over the top. We don't know who is at fault. We don't know if the situation is really as "toxic" as you assume. All we can do is calmly ask questions and offer advice. The OP asks what he can/should do. Yes, he can pick his son up from camp. Yes, he can transfer to a different troop. Is that the best solution? Is that what he should do? I don't know. I don't think you know.

No. I think some people are acting too quickly to point blame at the other unit leaders. I suspect that all the unit leaders are partially responsible for this mess, including the original poster. If there is some reason why he is committed to staying with this unit, it is not at all helpful for us to all suggest that he leave. It was the OP who gave us all this extra information. I am just trying to make some sense of it. As it stands, it doesn't make any sense at all.

This would be a very strange thing to say about a kid unless there is some close relationship other than scouting.

I disagree with you, and I'll tell you why. The OP says that there are other troops in the area, yet he chose to help start up this new troop. He even says that he put a lot of money into the startup. That is a lot of trouble to go to when there are easier and cheaper options available. There is a reason why he went out of his way to help start this unit.

OK. So you're telling me that you signed up to volunteer for a church chartered troop but someone pulled a switcheroo on you. That is reason enough to change units. I'm surprised that you stuck around this long. If people had donated money to help start up the troop (thinking that they were donating to a church) and then the organizer kept the ownership of the unit and the donations for himself, it might even be considered fraud.

I can't help but feel that you are at least partially responsible for this whole mess since you were one of the people who chose to organized the troop this way. A little more thought and planning in the beginning can save a lot of grief and regret later on.

Does the rule only apply to meetings with youth members, or does it also apply to meetings with adult leaders under age 21? Do we need to have 2 adult leaders over 21 when meeting with an 18 year old ASM? Do we need to have an adult female leader over age 21 when we meet with a female ASM under age 21?

I would just figure that he must have a mental/emotional handicap that entitles him to still wear the youth badges.

Don't I wish.

It sounds too much like a pro-life group. The liberals at national would never go for it.

You obviously have no idea how expensive it can be to build and maintain a baseball field. A well designed regulation 90' baseball field, not including land costs, can run upwards of a half-million dollars. I would hardly describe that as a grassy field.

I really wish you guys would stop putting down athletics. My CO has always made an effort to have the athletes and scouts all treat each other with respect. They even have a combined awards night that includes both athletics and scouting. But if you insist on bashing sports, you should at least get your facts straight. I was the administrator for both the sports teams and the scout troop. I know that your lopsided comparisons of the costs/benefits of scouting and athletics don't really add up. We should focus our efforts on making all extra-curricular activities more affordable to low income families. We shouldn't be pitting one activity against another.

Mike Rowe, perhaps. My impression is that Mr. Rowe is not the sort of guy who would take on an honorary position that has no real authority to make changes. He seems to be more interested in getting the job done than in collecting personal honors and bling.

I understand how it is supposed to work...on paper. This was all explained to me way back during the Owasippe controversy. I also know that it doesn't actually work that way. BSA does not operate the way their corporation paperwork says they should. That was the basis of the Chicago Area Council lawsuit. Yes, the fact that the board has never fired a CSE is a clear indicator that things are not right. These unanimous votes are another. The ridiculously high salaries are the clincher. The governing bodies have no control over the execs. This is what I think should change. The owners of the corporations (national council/local councils) should have actual control over the hiring, firing, and salaries of the execs who supposedly work for them. The selection of the boards should be democratic and transparent. If the boards do not vote/act in a way that is truly representative their constituents, there should be a process by which they can be voted out of their offices.

That really isn't true. We unit scouters are not represented by the executive board. We don't elect them. We can't remove them. I actually have no idea how the executive board operates. It is a very secretive process. All I know is that they always seem to vote unanimously in favor of anything the CSE puts in front of them. Rubber stamp. I have never heard of a CSE getting fired. I am not at all certain that the executive board can actually fire the CSE. I think it is far more likely that the CSE would remove any or all of the executive board members if he were to ever lose confidence in their unquestioning, unwavering, and unanimous support.

We can't fire the suits. The suits can fire us, but we can't fire them. That's the problem.

I agree that Timmy shouldn't be camping. He was small for his age and very clumsy. Barely a week went by that he didn't fall into a well, get stuck on the edge of a cliff, or some such thing. The poor boy would have never lived to see puberty if it wasn't for his dog.

I have never believed that it is at all necessary for a boy to have been a cub scout and earned AoL in order to become a successful scout. As a scoutmaster, I considered AoL to be irrelevant. It's just another piece of bling.

The leader is a witch? I think I might see the problem.

It is certainly not going to be found in anything published by BSA, if that's what you mean. BSA published materials are entirely self-serving.

That's why I think it is so important to have an active Chartered Organization to act as a buffer between BSA and the scouters. BSA is a business. They are only in this for money. They will locate and exploit vulnerabilities in scouts/scouters in order to take them for every penny they can.

I think BSA encourages it. Adults have more money than kids.

I enjoy watching the youngest grandkids playing in the sandbox. I will sometimes even come down to their level, to play in the sand with them and help them build their sandcastles. But let's be clear about this. I don't really get a kick out of playing with sand. I outgrew that about a half a century ago. I just like to spend some time with the grandkids. I feel the same way about scouting. I enjoy watching the boys play their game. I give my time to support them and help make them successful. It is their game, not mine. I outgrew the game with a purpose many, many years ago.

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).