David CO

BSA doesn't give us independence. We are independent. We always have been. Independence isn't a gift from BSA. BSA doesn't own the unit.

I don't agree with you on the layer thing. I consider my unit/CO to be a parallel group. We have completely separate ownership. BSA doesn't own us. We are not the bottom rung on a BSA ladder.

I don't blame them for this. Our unit doesn't want them. We would prefer that they stay away. On the rare occasion someone does show up, we aren't very cordial. We don't even offer them a cup of coffee.

Yep.

Much better than constantly preaching nots.

That's a no-brainer. I will always choose my children over BSA.

I do. It is.

Ten years ago, I would have agreed with you about the Venn diagram. Not anymore. The YP rules are being applied to scouters 24/7. No distinction is being made between scouting events, CO events, and a scouter's private life. There is no Venn diagram anymore.

It is easy for scouters to criticize the CO for not abiding by the charter agreement. But these same scouters would probably be the ones who scream the loudest if their CO's were to choose to follow their consciences and not sign the charter.

I am retired now. I was an IH. The CO (in David CO) is for Chartered Organization. I joined the forum, years ago, because I felt the viewpoint of the Chartered Organization was under-represented here. The scouter viewpoint is abundant. The council viewpoint is here, often quoted by scouters and executives alike. But the CO's viewpoint is largely missing.

Not really. It is the Chartered Organization's decision to participate. The IH must go along with that decision. All other scouters get to choose. Not so for the IH.

Knowing my Church as I do, I cannot imagine that they would ever agree to blindly obey any other organization, including BSA. I agree that the Catholic Church should not sign the charter agreement. The language of the charter agreement is an affront to the sovereignty and dignity of the Church. It is an insult. It is a slap in the face. I think we should drop all of our Catholic units. But that is not my decision to make.

Exactly. Our country was designed with a system of checks and balances. Our forefathers wisely understood that unfettered power leads to tyranny, poverty, and widespread suffering. This is true even when the leadership appears to have started with good intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I see the BSA/CO relationship as one of checks and balances. As much as the executives at BSA would like us to think so, it is not the role of the CO to blindly obey BSA.

Yep. If there is any one thing we can glean from history and politics, it's that some people are very authentic as dictators/bullies. We must always remember that people can be authentically bad or authentically good.

Isn't it obvious? I support my Chartered Organization. I love and support my scouts. Now, if you were to ask me why my Chartered Organization (and the Catholic Church in general) is still participating in a scouting organization that has totally rejected our moral beliefs, I can only respond with a shrug. I have no idea. I have said many times (on this forum) that I think my Church should pull out of BSA. I wish it would. But that's not my decision to make.

I do. We should reject the whole concept of authenticity of leadership in BSA, and issue a disclaimer, much like the television networks do. The statements expressed are solely the views of the BSA national council, and do not reflect the opinions of your scout leaders or your local Chartered Organization.

Maybe I'm not getting my point across. Let me give you an example. Last year, my school administrator wrote 2 emails and sent them out to the parents. She sent them out from my mailing address and signed my name to them. The parents all thought I sent out the emails. I didn't. I didn't even agree with the thoughts expressed in the emails. Yet my name is on them. This is the opposite of authenticity. An individual leader cannot be authentic if the institution they work/volunteer for won't let them be authentic. This is true in education, and it is true in scouting. The use of scripted lessons and pre-approved form letters is increasing. Teachers and scout leaders are becoming more like actors, reading a script. We are often seen as playing a role. The kids are aware of this. Kids often ask me if I really believe in the things I say, or if I'm just repeating what the school/church/troop wants me to say. They are asking me if I am authentic. It's a good question.

The article appears to be focusing on business managers. I am not a businessman, so I don't know much about authenticity in business management. I am a teacher. I can honestly tell you that things are going in the exact opposite direction in education. Teachers are not encouraged to be authentic. Schools are afraid of authenticity. Today's school curriculum is designed to teach to the test. Every minute of instruction time is accounted for. A classroom lesson plan must identify every teaching activity and match it up with a learning goal from the state curriculum. The teacher is irrelevant. The test is everything. It doesn't matter if the teacher is authentic or not. I think the same is becoming true of scouting. Adult association is no longer considered desirable, except for that which is absolutely necessary for advancement and supervision. Authenticity is unimportant. Compliance is all that is needed. In my years on this forum, I have heard many complaints about scout leaders not complying with the rules. Usually advancement rules. Sometimes YP rules. I have yet to hear a single parent complain about a leader's authenticity. They don't care about authenticity. They just want the adults to sign their kids off on the requirements and give them their badges.

I agree. Authenticity is very important. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

This topic is about the CO's rules and procedures. It's not about BSA rules or the charter agreement.

I just read that the President and First Lady have tested positive for covid. My prayers go out to them for a safe and speedy recovery.

I can live with that...so long as we agree that BSA doesn't own the unit.

It would be just awful if an child sex abuser were to get a huge payout from the BSA case. If he does get awarded a payout, it should go to his victims, not him.

The father is the scoutmaster. He shouldn't need anybody's help in reporting a YP violation to the council.

This makes it easy for me to give you my first piece of advice. Support your scoutmaster. That's the job of the ASM. My second bit of advice is to not do anything that is not part of your job description. Let the other people make their own decisions. Let the kids decide which unit they want to be in. Let the committee set the unit policies. Let the COR deal with the council.