David CO

Except for the part about charging high fees, you pretty much described my unit. So I obviously agree with you that there is a place for this type of unit. But, once again, I strongly feel that the unit leadership should be employed by the Chartered Organization, not by the council or BSA. I would not want to see professional unit staff who are recruited and trained by BSA. It shouldn't be like the scout executives who have to be on a pre-approved list, and are beholden to BSA for their jobs. Units should continue to choose their own unit leadership regardless of whether that leadership is volunteer or paid.

I think that is probably the case.

Actually, I do.

There is an obvious difference between murder and "soul murder". There is usually proof that a murder actually took place. We have a body.

Draining the swamp has never been an objective at BSA. They are the swamp creatures. They don't want their swamp drained.

My first reaction is to bristle at that suggestion. I would like to see scouting remain volunteer led. This may seem a bit hypocritical of me since I was hired staff. My school paid me to run the scout program, just like it would pay any other coach or administrator. I would make a distinction between BSA hired staff and Chartered Organization hired staff. As far as I know, there is no rule prohibiting a CO from utilizing its paid staff to lead their scout unit.

If the parents will allow you to take their kids camping (without a scouting organization), go for it. I wish you luck. I know a few families who would let me do that. They have enough trust in me that they would let me take their children on outings. Most of the families would not. It's not that they have misgivings about me. That's not it. They don't allow anyone to have that kind of access to their children. Not anymore. So I agree with you that we can carry on without BSA. But I wouldn't expect a lot of families to carry on with us. I think the vast majority of families would give up on scouting and find some other activities to do.

If you don't trust the organization enough to donate the property unencumbered, you probably shouldn't donate it to them at all.

I gave you an up-vote for calling it extortion.

Sure you can. That's what it means to be part of a team. We win as a team, and we lose as a team.

I agree. It is not unexpected. The council execs have always wanted to have direct control of the units. The current crisis is the perfect opportunity for them to justify a take-over.

Whether people believe in God or not, I think they should capitalize the name. Not doing so is disrespectful.

So what do we do? I was a Health teacher. In every unit, the book described the "symptoms" of kids who are "at risk" of various health problems. The book told us to be aware of these telltale signs. The problem is that the symptoms were always the same. Unit after unit, they gave the exact same symptoms. About half way through the unit, the kids would start laughing whenever they read the same warning signs for each new health issue. It became a classroom joke. Symptoms and warning signs are useless if they describe everybody.

The closest thing I have seen to scouting is historical reenacting. We have a large group of middle school and high school Civil War reenactors in our area.

Is that an African swallow or a European swallow?

That is also what the best teachers and scout leaders do.

That's true. We used to say the journey was more important than the destination. Learning skills and developing character was more important than the success of the project or event. Not anymore.

I hope not. Most middle school and high school boys don't take showers at school anymore. Group showers have become a thing of the past. I don't agree with this. I am old fashioned. I still thing group showers helped to build team comradery and individual self-confidence. I wish schools still did this, but they don't. There is no point in arguing the matter. As for the past, I would hate to see schools and other institutions penalized for having once had group showers. I don't think requiring boys to shower was a form of abuse. If actual sexual abuse occurred, the people and institutions responsible should be held accountable.

I disagree with you here. I think we need to be truthful and transparent about the risks. All youth programs have inherent risks. Football has risks. Baseball has risks. Scouting has risks. We should not say scouting is safe. We should give the scouts/parents the facts, and let them decide if scouting is an acceptable risk. BSA really messed up by not being transparent about the risks. In an attempt to recruit more scouts and increase numbers, scouting officials told the parents that scouting was safe. It wasn't true, and the scouting officials knew it wasn't true when they said it. We should not continue that mistake by communicating a message that scouting is safe.

I don't think it is necessarily a matter of permissiveness. Many conservatively minded people and groups, in those days, had opinions and attitudes that would not seem acceptable today. My parents would have expressed disappointment if I was embarrassed by my own nudity. They felt that boys should grow up "confident". Insecurity and vulnerability were not considered to be positive male traits in my community. The girls were expected to be modest. Not the boys.

If teasing in group showers counts, I was both a victim and a perpetrator. They got me with a few zingers, but I like to think I gave as good as I got.

The COR's in Chicago didn't win. At best it was a tie. They did save the camp, but they lost control of the council to national (after national threatened to pull their charter if they didn't approve a hand-picked slate). I thought they should have fought it out to the bitter end in federal court, but they didn't. Sad.

That's what it says on paper. In reality, the SE has more control over the council board members than they have on the SE.

I have had all of that happen to me (by the execs). Unfortunately, my unit is not allowed to keep the identities of our unit officers a secret from the council. I wish we could. It would make running a unit much easier.

I totally agree with you. Young adults deserve greater respect than our society seems willing to give them. I might also say the same of my middle school students. With a few exceptions, I have found my students to be remarkably understanding, insightful, and kind. Much more so than they are often given credit for. It is true that brain development continues until about age 25. This fact has important implications when discussing many health issues (like drug abuse). I don't see how this makes them any less deserving of respect. I am at that point in life when my physical and mental abilities are on the downslope. I don't think this fact should deprive me of any of the dignity and respect I enjoyed as a middle-aged adult. Since I would not want less respect given to me as a senior citizen, I will not deny that respect to teenagers and young adults.