David CO

That goes without saying. You're a scouter.

Tell me about it. Have you seen what passes for television lately?

Oh, the humanity! Hang on to that picture. If BSA survives the current round of lawsuits, you might be eligible for the next round. Maybe in 10 years. This may be your retirement plan.

No question about it. They just want to take our money.

Heaven forbid that there should be any foolishness in scouting. But that is exactly the point. Boys need to have a program where they can act like boys without being called out for it by the women and girls. Boys need to act foolish once in a while. Best that they go out in patrols, deep into the woods, away from all civilizing influences, when they feel the need to act foolish.

I think it is OK for scout units to attend just about anything. They just have to be careful not to imply BSA support of the social/political cause. No uniforms. No logos. No press releases saying BSA Troop 123 attended the rally. BSA is fighting for its life. I think they have chosen the worst possible time to oppose and oppress the Chartered Organizations. BSA has alienated its staunchest supporters right when it needs them the most.

I agree with that definition.

This is a problem, both at national and council. There is no accountability for board members. BSA is in bankruptcy. The entire board should be retired and replaced. The people who led BSA into bankruptcy should be held accountable.

A school principal recently told me that she prefers to employ teachers who live somewhere else, in another town, and commute to work. It is too easy to accidently run afoul of the rules when you live, work, play and pray in the same town. I wouldn't be at all surprised if BSA tried to instituted a YP policy saying that adults cannot volunteer in the same town where they live. We can't have scout leaders bumping into scouts outside of official scouting activities.

It's Sunday. Hardly anyone comes on the forum on Sunday. The moderators aren't around to prod us into getting back on topic. Feel free to bloviate.

I am old-time Catholic. I still believe in sins of omission. I don't worry much about holding up the line. Purgatory has a very large waiting room. My fear is that it has Musak.

I lose a lot of sleep too, both literally and figuratively. I often look back on my teaching, coaching and scouting careers and wonder if I did the right things. I thought I did. But I wonder. There was little expectation of privacy in scouting during the post-WWII years. This carried on through most of the 80's. Did this contribute to the problem? I don't know. I would like to think it didn't. But I don't know. When I meet my final accounting, I hope that I don't learn that any of my actions and decisions, or inactions and indecisions, contributed, directly or indirectly, to any instance of child sexual abuse.

I am not going to quote anyone specifically, since many people have commented about how the lawsuits are unfair to current and future scouts. It is unfair, but no more unfair than the national debt. They are going to inherit that too. They will also inherit all of the nation's infrastructure. It is important to remember that our kids didn't build any of these camps. They inherited the camps. Past generations built them and paid for them. The generations that built these camps are the same generations that allowed the child sexual abuse. They are paying for it. After the bankruptcy, current and future scouts will be starting anew with a clean slate. It will now be up to them to build their own futures. I wish them luck.

Let me just add that it is not against the rules to require singing as a normal part of the program. It is only against the rules if it is used as a punishment or humiliation (hazing). Asking the scouts to sing hymns at church services, for example, is not hazing.

How important are non-monetary requirements in this bankruptcy?

Lip service? I think that is a little unfair.

I really don't think this is media driven. The BSA bankruptcy isn't a major story. The media barely mentions scouting. It's a non-story. Even if BSA is wiped out, it will be briefly reported on page 5. Not a headliner. Nobody cares. BSA isn't going to be invited to do interviews with Oprah.

I think we have to assume that perpetrators will purposely avoid the barriers. That's a given. The real difficulty comes when it is the victim who purposely avoids the barriers. To some extent, we need to treat child sexual abuse prevention in much the same way as we do suicide prevention. We can't expect the victims to always cooperate. We have to act in the victims best interest, whether they choose to cooperate or not.

There is a big difference between youth sports and scouting. If a private baseball program gets wiped off the map, the YMCA or Park District can fill the void. Baseball is not uniquely tied to just one organization. The boys will still get to play baseball. Many people feel that BSA is unique and irreplaceable. Wipe out BSA, and scouting is gone forever. I disagree, but I know many people feel that way. No matter what happens, I don't think WOSM is going to let go of the American market.

Any things possible. I think it would be a big mistake. Once cut loose from any responsibility to defend national in the lawsuits, those councils would quickly point the blame at BSA for everything. All the dirty little secrets would become public. Lawyers would have a field day.

It is enough for me that you acknowledge the fact that a major program on child sexual abuse does not go into the concept of "grooming". I think the inference is clearly there. You are free to disagree.

No you're not.

My class is much better than anything I have seen in BSA. BSA would never have it, since it presents many points of view and includes a lively discussion.

I have been asked that question several times on this forum. It isn't my choice. If it was my choice, I would have the diocese pull out of scouting.

Since I have yet to see any BSA training session that had any value, I would have to say no. But who knows, you might be the first.