David CO

Middle school Health/Science teacher.

Teacher.

Stosh, I'm sorry to hear that you have a bad knee. My favorite old scouting movie is "Room For One More" with Cary Grant, about a handicapped foster child who couldn't play sports, but excelled as a Boy Scout. I can still get a little choked up during the scene when he explains that he feels like he had an advantage over the other scouts because, unlike them, he got to choose his parents. I played men's softball for many years for my parish in an interdenominational church league. We would have let you use a pinch runner.

My point is that team sports are life long activities for many people. Nobody has to quit playing team sports when they turn 18.

Actually, yes. If I sign up for a Wednesday night league, my team mates do expect me show up on Wednesday nights. They are busy people, too. They have to adjust their schedules. They would not be happy with me I wasted their time by not showing up.

Some people here have said that recreational team sports are only for kids. I strongly disagree. A lot of adults like me continued to play team sports in the recreational adult leagues. My game is 16 inch softball. I have been told that park districts and YMCA's actually have more adults participating in team sports than children. I can believe it. Today's adults seem to be much more physically active than my parents were at my age. This may be one of the reasons why youth sports are winning out over scouting. Mom and dad are playing team sports. Maybe grandma and grandpa are playing, too.

The vast majority of boys do not participate in the Boy Scouts, and they do just fine without it. Many of these boys choose sports over scouting. Some choose science activities over scouting. Others choose hobbies over scouting. Most boys choose something else over scouting. We shouldn't be either surprised or offended when they do.

The world is already convinced that sports are better than scouting.

I have no objection to a coach expecting a player to show up for a seasonal sport, which is usually a 12 to 15 week commitment. Year round sports clubs, like they sometimes have in skating and gymnastics, are a different matter, and a completely different discussion. Even in a seasonal sports programs, I have seen coaches unreasonably demand that players attend off-season sports camps. This too, I feel, is a different discussion. But for a regular seasonal sport, like little league baseball, YMCA basketball, or middle school football, with a short season and limited time commitment, I see nothing wrong with them expecting the boys to show up.

I am a science guy. It is fortunate for us science guys that the world doesn't apply the same standards to science as those commonly used to go after religion. Most people accept that the natural world is what it is, and that it is not altered by our perceptions and opinions. There are many opposing, competing, and contradictory theories in science. They can't all be true. Most aren't true. We aren't expected to give them equal respect. Science takes hard work and discipline. We generally expect scientists to master the skills before we will listen to their opinions.

I'm going to take Gumbymaster at his word in that he is sincerely trying to understand. Religion is a jigsaw puzzle with half of the pieces missing. I don't claim to have all the pieces of the puzzle, and I don't claim to be able to see the whole picture, but I am absolutely certain that the pieces I have are true. It is pointless for you to argue to me that any of my puzzle pieces are untrue. It is human nature for people to use their imaginations to fill in the empty spaces in the jigsaw puzzle. In fact, it takes great patience and discipline to avoid doing so. If you are interested in the great puzzle, I have a few words of encouragement and advise. Don't remove any pieces from the board. Don't add any new pieces. Enjoy working the puzzle. You were never intended to complete it.

Or God actually did write the ten commandments on stone tablets.

Magic is the art of illusion. Religion is not an illusion. But yes, I do believe in miracles. I believe in divine creation. I believe in the real presence of God in the Holy Sacraments. I do believe that God is the creator of everything that is good, and the author of all truth, including morality. God gave us morality. He also gave us the free will to reject it. Atheist do have the same moral code as we have. They often reject it.

When God makes the sun shine, it shines on both the atheists and the believers alike. Similarly, the one true God, who is the source of all love and compassion, shares these gifts with both believers and atheists. Of course it is possible for an atheist to be moral.

It amazes me how some people who have the time to write thousands of posts to perfect strangers on an anonymous web site will complain that they have no time for the parent of one of their scouts.

Actually, it is very common for sixth grade parents to request P/T conferences this time of year, mid-September, for seemingly trivial matters. It is sometimes called "nipping it in the bud" or "the broken glass theory." We don't wait for small issues to become major problems. Sixth grade is the start of middle school. It is a big change for kids. They exchange classrooms and have a different teacher for every class. Some students have a difficult time making the transition. At our parent orientation, we encourage parents to contact the teacher immediately if they notice a change in mood, study habits, or academic performance. I would also note that Catholic school teachers have a lot more contact with the parents. Our schools are very parent friendly.

I thought the OP sounded neutral. This seems to be the Scouter version of an ink blot test. Today's parents are of the same generation as my former students and scouts. A few actually are my former students and scouts. We share a history together. I loved these people when they were kids. I'm still very fond of them. I really like these parents.

The parents of a 6th grade middle school student don't have to make a special request for parent/ teacher conference. We have two P/T conference days scheduled every year. Perhaps we should extend the analogy made by SlowDerbyRacer and schedule P/SM conference days for first year scouts? Over the years, I have had some interesting conversations at parent meetings, in both school and Scouting. Some are serious and some are funny. You might be surprised how often, back in the days when boys took group showers, parents would ask me if their son had begun puberty. At one P/T conference, a mother asked me how to make pancakes. You just never know what you're going to be asked. Do I consider it a waste of time? Not at all. I enjoy it.

It is no pleasure for the parents, either. When parents come in for a meeting, they are usually on edge. A scout leader can easily interpret this as hostility. It may actually be hostility. But most often, it simply reflects the parents unease. Also consider that many parents can't write well. They may be embarrassed to communicate in this form. They may feel that their writing skills are being judged. Parents have a lot more to lose than you do, and they know it. Parents don't like to be talked down to or belittled in front of their child. It is humiliating. If a parent doesn't want their child present at the meeting, this may be the reason. Keep in mind how many hours it takes you to recruit a new Boy Scout. Isn't it also worth a little extra effort to retain him?

Wow! I am really surprised by some of the responses here. I really enjoy meeting and chatting with parents. I do it regularly, as a part of my job, so it no big deal for me. I don't, in any way, resent parents asking for a meeting. As a teacher, I had 3 or 4 parent/teacher conferences requested every week. They usually ran from a half-hour to an hour. Although I might have needed to negotiate a little bit on the time and place of the conferences, in order to fit my schedule, I never refused to meet with a concerned parent. As a Scoutmaster, I may have had 3 or 4 per month. I felt that all the unnecessary paper work and nonsense district meetings wasted a lot more of my time than parent meetings.

We have no secret meetings or closed activities. Nothing is hidden. Scout meetings and leader meetings are both open to the parents. If we had no female scout leaders, we would still have mothers sitting in the back observing the meetings. I have no doubt of that. In a boy lead unit, there is very little difference between an observer and a leader. The boys are the doers. All the rest of us are just observers.

I disagree. If parents asks for an hour long, one-on-one, face-to-face meeting with me, they got it. No preconditions. By the end of the meeting, I will have my way on advancement, and the parents will discover that they have "volunteered" for something.

Our local Girl Scout program is nothing like the Boy Scouts. Similarly, the YWCA is nothing like the YMCA. The YWCA, just a couple blocks away, recently tore out the swimming pool. They feel that their resources would be better spent on their "core mission" to "empower women and end racial discrimination." Many girls have switched over to the YMCA. I have some very strong feelings about the YMCA. I went to a YMCA college. I was very much a part of the YMCA philosophy and culture. Many things have changed since it went coed and family friendly. The YMCA has dropped both the men and the Christian from the organizations name and identity. It is now just the Y. I'm glad that the girls will still have a place to go swimming. I'm sad that the YMCA, the club's distinct identity and philosophy, is gone forever. I don't want to see the same thing happen with the Boy Scouts.

Changing to coed classes were a response to some pretty glaring inequalities that existed at that time. The old public middle school in my home town didn't have a girls locker room. Girls didn't take Gym class. They also had very limited opportunities to participate in sports. I'm glad that my girls are getting a better education. That said, I totally agree that boys and girls learn differently. They need a different approach. In some subjects and activities, I think they could benefit from separate classes, clubs, and teams. Unfortunately, some people have replaced our very laudable goal of equal opportunity with the less praiseworthy ambition of social engineering. I see some similarities in the question of coed scouting. Some people focus on improving girls access to a quality outdoor program, while others have a more social agenda. I can't see how we can open up our outdoor program to girls without inviting in all the social engineers.

No, constant adult supervision is not a traditional feature of scouting. That's my point. Comparing school to scouting is apples to oranges. In a typical middle school, the boys and girls will largely self-segregate. Boys in a lunchroom will usually sit together. You rarely see mixed groups at a cafeteria table. You see the same thing at basketball games. The boys and girls don't usually sit together in the bleachers. You see clumps of boys and clumps of girls. Very little mixing. Schools went coed to insure that girls will get the same resources and quality of education that the boys receive. It was about equal educational opportunities, not about social interaction.