David CO

Do we have total control of the personal lives of our scouts? No, I would not say that we have total control. We do, however, have some control over the personal lives of the boys who voluntarily sign up for an extracurricular activity, including scouting. For example, the prohibition on alcohol use is 24/7. With the exception of prescription medicines and communion wine, the ban is total. There is no separation between in-school and out-of-school when it comes to alcohol use. Parents cannot excuse their kids from the policy, even in the privacy of their own homes. One glass of wine at the dinner table and you're off the football team. You may not like it, Stosh, but most schools have these rules. All of our sports teams have limitations placed on them as to when, where, and how many practices they they can have. These limitations are strictly enforced. Can a couple of boys get together and toss around the football in the back yard? Sure. Can the defensive squad get together to set up an informal practice on their own? No. The same sort of reasoning applies to the scouting program.

If any of our boys were told by the Scoutmaster that they couldn't go to such-n-such a place, and they went anyway, they would be immediately dropped from our program. The same would be true for sports teams, band, chess team, etc.. Good grief! When I read some of these posts, it makes me feel extremely fortunate that I have been able to participate in a unit that has a stable, responsible, and active Chartered Organization.

Why would I get a little "bent out of shape" over a Scoutmaster signing off for a boy he's never met? My Chartered Organization is a school. We have very strict policies about grades, diplomas, and awards. We have a reputation to maintain.

I too am going on a working assumption that the OP description is true. It sounds true. I was an IH. Something like this could not have happened in my unit without my hearing about it. I would have fired the Scoutmaster six months ago. The next conversation would have been with the parent. I would not have been happy with the parent either. I have already explained why. The parent would have been told to shape up or take the kid to another unit.

No kidding, Stosh. Would you really?

Sounds like the Scouting equivalent of a diploma mill. I would never sign off for a boy I never met.

There are a few things about the OP that set me on edge. First was the statement that the Scoutmaster and the troop committee were in cahoots. I didn't like that choice of words. The Scoutmaster and the unit committee should both be on the same page. This is how a well run unit works. If someone feels they're both on the wrong page, they should take it to the COR. Second was the statement that the parent hopes to enlist the support of a couple parents. I didn't like that as well. Unless the couple parents being referred to are the COR and the IH, this is wholly inappropriate. A well run unit does not make important decisions through parent led insurrections. Third was taking it to the council. Strike three.

Anyone who has followed my posts on this site would already clearly know where I place my loyalty. My loyalty is to the Chartered Organization. Yes, I do think that many people exaggerate the importance of Scouting and its advancement program. But they're not alone. The athletic program is also known to exaggerate its importance. They often feel that sports is a kid's "life work." I feel that it is the role of the Chartered Organization to moderate such views and help its youth members to develop a better sense of perspective as to what should be most important in their lives. I have said it before. Scouting is not the largest or the most important program in our organization. Scouting is simply not that popular.

Please don't get me wrong, Krampus, I have never regretted my decision to not pursue the award. I don't consider it a "missed opportunity." I think you're being just a little bit extreme when you describe the advancement program as a " kids life work."

Boys often ask me why I wasn't an eagle scout. The answer is very simple. I was a Lone Scout. I remember seeing a scene in a Cary Grant movie where the adopted son receives his award to the cheers of his troop. I remember thinking that it must be a wonderful thing to be honored by your friends in that way. Yes, as a Lone Scout, I could have earned the award. But it wouldn't have been the same. Something would have been missing. I know that many people disagree with me. They want the award any way they can get it. If it means lawyer-ing up and going to council, so be it.

Let's suppose for a moment that the boy succeeds in getting the council to overrule his unit and award him his eagle. How would his unit react? I would see it as an act of defiance and disloyalty to the unit.

Very curious. The unit didn't mind being chartered by a Catholic organization like the Knights of Columbus, but it does object to being chartered by a Catholic parish. Why?

It should be really tough for any person to have much of an effect in change without the explicit approval of the chartered organization. The CO owns the unit.

I disagree with the assertion that the CC was dishonest.

It is really not a good idea to announce a promotion until it becomes official. Any number of things can happen. As a young teacher/coach, I was elated when the principal informed me that I was to be promoted to head coach. Unfortunately, the promotion never went through. The school board felt I was too young. I was angry and hurt, but I wasn't publicly humiliated. I hadn't told anyone that I was anticipating a promotion. I did get the job a few years later. I sympathize with Renax, but I can't help feeling that part of the mistake was his. He shouldn't have announced his promotion until it was official. The saddest thing about all this is that, had he not jumped the gun by prematurely announcing his promotion, Renax would still be involved in his troop and would very likely have become the next Scoutmaster.

National could have pulled Chicago's charter and done a land grab, but that would have been the end of BSA in Chicago.

Yes, words have meaning. But sometimes, they have more than one meaning. I was an IH of a chartered organization. As such, I was a voting member of the council. For those of you "members" who have never had a vote in the council, I can honestly say that you haven't missed much. I can also assure you that the execs display exactly the same level of disdain to us as they do to all of the other volunteer scouters.

Anyone who followed the Owasippe situation in Chicago a few years back got a real eye opener. The chartered organizations refused to vote in the Board of Directors slated by national. The execs at national responded by threatening to pull the councils charter. Yes, on paper, the chartered organizations vote in the council BOD, who then hire the executives. In reality, the execs choose the slate for the BOD. We need to have real elections. We need to have real oversight of the executives. We might even learn that we don't really need the executives.

I could not disagree more. Scouting would be far better off if we were an all volunteer organization.

No kidding? Soccer teams charge the coaches? I didn't know that. When I was an athletic director for my Catholic school, we gave our volunteer parent coaches a couple hundred bucks. It wasn't much. It certainly didn't pay for their time. It barely covered their travel expenses, but I think the gesture was appreciated.

It is a bit strange that BSA asks adults to pay for the privilege of donating our time. Even stranger is the fact that we do it. We really are a bunch of saps, aren't we? Youth sports programs don't charge registration fees or training costs to volunteer coaches.

My apologies, Sentinal947. I was being sarcastic. "I am shocked, shocked, ..." is a classic line from the movie, Casablanca.

I am shocked, shocked, at the animosity toward professional scouters.

Boys can get justifiably annoyed when they are required to have adult supervision to do things that they are usually allowed to do on their own. Who wouldn't?

Yes, all of our funds were held in the CO accounts. I deliberately set it up that way when I was IH. I will explain my reasoning. We did not have a unit committee member as treasure. A Boy Scout was the treasurer. If the boys needed to go shopping for something, he could just go to the office and sign out some petty cash. My intent was not to take control away from the unit committee, it was to give more control to the boys.