David CO

Are you sure the school board doesn't meet during the summer? I was on a school board, and we never took off for the summer. We had tons of work to do in the summer. Most of our building and remodeling, equipment and supply purchases, interviewing and hiring teachers, transportation contracts and bus route changes, ...all take place in the summer. Besides that, I'm guessing that an administrator would have the authority to have some cabinets installed. If the cabinets are donated, and there is no expense to the school/church, board action might not even be necessary. If this boy's family happened to be in the cabinet business, and he grew up in the family business, and he wanted to make new cabinets for my Science classroom or Athletic Department, I'd accept the offer in a heartbeat.

I may be wrong, but I thought the D of E award was specifically intended to promote activities for youth who are not involved in scouting. Welcome to the forum. I like to hear about other programs. In my unit, it would be more likely for the adults to get lost. The boys do the rescuing.

I am not trying to "steal the thread" and make this discussion about my unit and CO. I apologize to SSF if this might appear to be my intention. I was only trying to give an example to illustrate my point, and things got a little carried away. I know next to nothing about SSF's Chartered Organization. I don't know why SSF's CO chartered a unit, or how chartering a unit helps the CO to accomplish its mission. Some on this forum may think the CO is irrelevant. The CO's mission is irrelevant. The CO's unique situation and needs are irrelevant. Just follow the guidelines. Obviously, I disagree.

It would be great if the Catholic high school had a unit. That would really make the transition much easier. But that is more of a district discussion, since the high school has a different CO. I think many of our parents would feel a little uncomfortable going directly from an elementary school Cub Scout unit to a high school based troop with a different CO. There is also the question of distance. Catholic high schools are few and far between. We don't have one in every town. I think it would be more practical for us to have a unit in both the middle school and the high school, and let individual boys transition whenever they feel most comfortable.

On the academic side of my school, there would be absolutely no problem with a student/scout doing a two-fer on requirements. He could write a paper for class and then submit it for a merit badge. We are all fine with that. In fact, I encourage it. My DRE (Director of Religious Education) feels differently when it comes to service hours. She thinks a service hour should be a unique and separate act, not connected to any other program or requirement.

We don't get many Eagles. One of the reasons so few schools charter troops is the age problem. Middle school is 11 to 13. High school is 14-18. It is not like Cub Scouts, where all ages are in one elementary school building. All troops struggle with retaining high school boys. It's even more difficult for units chartered by a k-8 grade school or a 6-8 middle school.

If we didn't already have a unit, I don't think my CO would even consider chartering a new unit. Not today.

Exactly right. If one individual unit could meet the needs of every boy, then what need would there be for districts?

True. But the resistance to scouting in parochial schools comes from the fact that the program is becoming open to more people. We can't weaken our CO's. We can't keep exchanging solid, stable CO's for flimsy, fly-by-night, one-purpose groups. We can't grow scouting that way. Sure, John-in-KC is right. A DE can always form a "friends-of" or find an "in-name-only" CO. That's easy. They do it all the time. But if you really want to grow scouting, you need to develop relationships with strong, solid CO's with the talent and resources to do the job.

King Ding Dong, The relationship between BSA and the Chartered Organization has changed over the years. Not for the better, in my opinion. Nowhere is this more clearly evident than at council. There has always been a line drawn between BSA and CO's. At one time, I would have said that this line lies somewhere between region and council. BSA owns region. The CO's collectively own the council. This is why, I think, we used to call ourselves "partners" rather than Chartered Organizations. We were never "partners" with BSA. We were "partners" on the council with our fellow CO's. Today, almost everyone would agree that BSA runs the council. The line has BSA, region, and council on one side. Chartered Organizations are alone on the other side. Taking the council away from the Chartered Organizations has weakened the CO's, both individually and collectively. What you describe is not at all unusual, a weakened CO which has thrown up its arms in frustration and given up.

Council or Chartered Organization? Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Give unto God what is God's.

MrBob, I hadn't thought about it before, but I think you're right. My parish might very possibly retain the policy even if we were to no longer charter a unit.

It's very likely. Over the years, many of my former students and scouts have come back to thank us. I often see prominent people who publicly credit their success to their Catholic upbringing and education. I have also seen two or three generations of families who have all attended our school. So yes, I think it is not only possible, but very likely that my students will grow up to be both glad and grateful for our devoted service. It is certainly true that Catholicism is a structured religion. I can understand how those who were raised in a less structured religion might view it as being "put in a box". But to suggest that someone "with a fully developed brain and intellect" would not choose Catholicism or appreciate his Catholic upbringing, is truly offensive.

Oh no. This is exactly why I didn't want to go over to the other thread.

Yes, Stosh, apples and oranges. I gave three examples of how a CO may have a rule, policy, or restriction that might have the appearance of adding to or subtracting from the BSA advancement guidelines, but, in actuality, violates neither the guidelines or the charter agreement. I've made my point.

A couple of the previous posts identify the age range, between 13 and 18, for children to be Confirmation candidates. Adults (18+) can also be Confirmed through a different program. I suppose it could be possible for a 13 year old to still be in sixth grade.

Qwazse, You have been reading my posts correctly.

OK, I guess you're right. It's better than most tv shows. What isn't? As for myself, I haven't been participating in this thread for the entertainment value. I am still hopeful that SSF and his younger son will find a way to continue with scouting.

Good grief. Do you really need to drag me into that idiotic thread?

Yep, that is the definition of a Confirmation candidate. Same here. In a previous post, I told Chadamus that we do have non-Catholics in my school. I also said that non-Catholic students go through the same Religion classes as the Catholic students. They attend and observe, but do not receive the sacraments. So non-Catholic scouts in my unit go through the Confirmation preparation along side their Catholic friends. They attend the Rite of Confirmation as observers, but do not receive the sacrament.

Thanks. That is always good advice. We teach that at my school. One should avoid using ambiguous acronyms and pronouns. I looked back at my previous posts, and I couldn't find it. I appreciate the correction, though, and I'll keep an eye out for it in the future.

Thank you! That is exactly my point.

I totally disagree with you. Intent is everything. My CO has no intent to alter any part of the Guide to Advancement. My CO couldn't care less about advancement. I understand that my CO's policies may have an effect on advancement, but that is more of a side-effect of the policies, not the intent of the policies.

I've given you two examples. Here is a third. Eligibility. A student can be declared ineligible for extracurricular activities because of poor academic performance. The period of ineligibility can vary from 1 week to a semester. This is a general rule that applies to all extracurricular activities, not just scouting. Do the math. If a student is ineligible for extracurricular activities, then he is ineligible for scouting, and that makes him ineligible for advancement.

Of course these are adult decisions. This is the Catholic Church. Even we adults don't always expect to be consulted.