David CO

Because BSA wants to promote council owned Cub Scout Camps? If the Cub Scouts aren't allowed do the fun stuff anywhere else, I suppose it gives the council camps a monopoly. I can't think of any other reason that makes sense.

I agree. The "walking trophy case" looks ridiculous. I don't think there is any way to design a good uniform that serves equally well in a multi-purpose role as a field uniform, activity uniform, and dress uniform. I vote for a having good, comfortable, floppy field uniform for outdoor activities, and forget about how it looks at meetings and ceremonies.

Our game uniforms and practice jerseys can be expensive. They are purchased by the Athletic Department and remain the property of the school. After showering, the boys put their jerseys in a laundry bag, and the equipment managers take them to a laundry room. Our game uniforms and practice jerseys do not go home with the boys. Our boys usually wear jackets and ties when traveling on away games.

How would a scout leader who is not a member of OA go about checking if the boys are still eligible to wear the flap?

Good grief. It is not the largest pumpkin patch, or the one with the most pumpkins, that attracts the great pumpkin. It is the one that is most sincere. Thank you Charles Schulz.

Maybe you're just cynical? Maybe? I agree that the size of the flag and the number of flags flown is not an indicator of greater patriotism. It is not an indication of insincerity either.

Sounds like a job for the District Commissioner.

Unfortunately, the Honorary President of BSA will have no actual authority to make scouting great again.

We were told that the restaurant has a flag pole outside. If they went to the effort and expense of building a flag pole, I think I might give them the benefit of the doubt as to their motivation. When I was a boy, most of our Main Street businesses were owned by WWII vets. They all had flag posts, freestanding or wall mounted, at the front of their stores. The downtown was awash with a sea of fluttering flags during the annual Veterans Day Parade. The Chamber of Commerce organized the parade. The Boy Scouts offered to raise and lower these flags, and to properly dispose of flags when necessary. Of course, this was back in the day when opening a business, providing employment in the community, paying taxes, and sponsoring local clubs, churches, schools, and charities was considered an act of patriotism, not a cynical exercise in self-promotion and money grubbing. I am glad that our Boy Scouts provided this civic service when I was a boy, and I would not criticize any Boy Scout or Boy Scout unit who volunteers to do it today.

The Troop Committee may also advise the Scoutmaster on the Chartered Organization's policies.

I think we need to recognize the limitations of this study. Scouts who were born in 1958, their experiences in scouting, and the benefits they received from participating in scouting, might not reflect the reality today. Cub Scouting in the 1960's and Boy Scouting in the 1970's were not the same as the program we have today. We should also consider the possibility that children with disabilities were under-represented in scouting in the 60's and 70's.

The COR's in Chicago did try to show up in mass and vote down the execs handpicked slate of candidates. After the COR's voted down the slate, national threatened to revoke the council's charter. Trying to hold an honest election is an unforgivable crime in the eyes of BSA. Other councils don't even attempt to hold a fair and honest election. They just rubber stamp any slate of candidates the execs put in front of them. Is it any wonder why COR's don't even bother to show up anymore? Chartered Organizations aren't stupid, and we are not blind. We can see what is going on. The system is rigged. Our CO provides a lot of support to our unit. Our Athletic Department pays for most of the cost of the scouting program. We basically provide a free scouting program to our scout families. I don't think any of our scouts feel they could get a better deal with another unit or another Chartered Organization.

COR's know that their so-called representation on the council and district committees is nothing but a sham. All the important decisions are made elsewhere. The execs and the big buck donors control the council. The system is rigged. Perhaps someday the populism that is taking root throughout the country, and elsewhere, will sweep over BSA and return control to the Chartered Organizations, or to the rank and file. I would welcome the change, but I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

But how does participation in scouting effect the mental health of the adult leaders?

We seem to have observed the same things, but we have reached very different conclusions. I don't believe the Chartered Organization's people are nearly so ignorant and apathetic as you guys from council like to claim we are. We agree that few COR's attend council and district meetings. Should that fact reflect badly on the COR's, or should it reflect badly on the council? I think it reflects badly on the council.

My COR is very efficient. He handles paperwork promptly, usually within a couple of days. I meet with him at least once a week. COR is not as active in a unit as a SM or CC, but he/she does have a critical and necessary role to play. I think it would be very foolish for a Chartered Organization to appoint a "paper" COR. As you know, few COR's regularly attend council and district meetings. I think this reflects the deteriorating relationship between BSA and the Chartered Organizations, not the activity level of the COR.

You say that you feel he will be better off with his peers. Who will be his peers? My guess is that his kindergarten classmates will become his peers. I think you have ample justification for accepting the boy into your den, since the boy started the year in first grade, so I wouldn't worry too much about that side of it. My concern is that next year, his parents may want him with this years group of kindergarten classmates (next years 1st graders) rather than your current group of boys. What will you do then? P.S. Do you know about "redshirting" in kindergarten?

I can't think of any situation in which the needs of my unit would be better served by having a volunteer register as a council or district leader rather than a unit leader.

No, I don't want to force the thread into Issues and Politics. I would rather speak in general terms.

TAHAWK, JasonG172 did argue that, in post #18, regarding units who would not accept a unit leader who doesn't have a child in the unit. I was responding to his argument. No, I have never encountered that situation. I had never even thought of it until I read his post. Yes, I do totally reject that argument. It has very serious implications that could go far beyond the discussion of childless volunteers or older volunteers who want to remain active in scouting. Acceptance or denial of an application to become an adult unit leader in my troop is subject to the needs of the unit, not the needs of the adult volunteer. I feel the same way about someone who wants to be a UC for my unit.

We do have another program, Outdoor Education. It's great! I absolutely love going on the OE activities. They're a blast. OE is twice the fun and half the aggrivation. Even so, some of our parents still want to have a scout program.

I have never been a COR. The only two adult positions I have ever held in scouting are SM and IH. I am aware of the fact that my COR may sit in district and council committees. He and I both agree that the system is rigged (at council) and it would be a futile waste of time for him to participate. My COR does occasionally appear at council to vote against their slate of candidates or register a protest vote on a particular matter that catches his attention. That's up to him. If the council were to surprisingly decide to heed our wishes, we would ask that they not appoint a UC to our unit. I very much doubt that will happen.

The Chartered Organization has the right to set guidelines and standards for selecting the unit's volunteer leaders. The CO owns the unit. I don't restrict the selection of my unit's volunteer leaders to people who have children in the unit. We have several great leaders whose children have aged-out, and others who have never had children in the unit. That said, I whole heartedly support the right of other Chartered Organizations to establish that rule for their units. The council has a different set of standards for council volunteers, some of which would conflict with my Chartered Organizations policies and values. It is entirely possible that the council might appoint a UC who would be totally unacceptable as a unit leader in my troop (for reasons other than not having children in the troop). I totally reject the argument that we should have UC's in order to allow applicant volunteers, who would otherwise be ineligible to participate in our unit in a leadership position, to bypass our Chartered Organizations policies and standards and participate in our unit. I totally reject it.

That's how I feel. If someone genuinely wants to be helpful to my unit, they should apply to be an Assistant Scoutmaster, unit Committee Member, or merit badge counselor. We love our unit volunteers, and we greatly appreciate all the good work they do.

That is exactly the sort of thing I would expect to hear from a DC.