dave.424

SSScout: "I was referring to Jesus' having no POLITICAL power, not spiritual power. Yes, he allowed a lot to happen to fulfill the prophecies and his Fathers will, but still, he had no POLITICAL power. And that is what is spoken of here." Yes, but you still portrayed him as a poor, hapless victim of the "the man". He may not have had political power, but he was in the position he was by his own choosing. I'm just saying that perhaps not a good analogy for someone who is denied a job or a home based on their religious beliefs.

I'm new to the forums and just saw this thread tonight. I was saddened to see the ultimate outcome. My prayers are with the family and friends of this young scout. Dave Jer 29:11

Re: SSScout's post 4/10 at 2:40 pm Thanks for the welcome. So far, I haven't seen any real, outright rude or non-Scout like treatment of fellow posters. In general, the discussions have seemed to be civil, even when folks disagree.. What's the point of who was European and who wasn't? Unless you intend to imply that Europeans are intrinsically more xenophobic than the other more "enlightened" people of the world. Based on your comments "the people", I guess this isn't your intent. Even for your purposes of illustration, all that matters was that Pilate was a member of the ruling majority. I must disagree with you that Jesus had no power. He was not a victim of circumstance, but purposely used those supposedly in power to further his own plan of salvation. I'd also have to dispute your portrayal of Jesus as "Mr. Inclusiveness". While it is God's will that all shall be saved, the way is narrow and no one comes to Father except through him. Although he spent much time with "sinners" and the outcast, he never condoned sinful behavior in an effort to make people feel good about themselves. He would tell them to go and sin no more. Folks should be careful when trying to invoke the name of Christ to defend actions that he would not approve of such as atheism or false religions. Hey, I didn't bring Jesus in to this discussion. I'm just replying to those that have. YIS...

My pack has traditionally recognized boys who've earned their religious emblem at the pack meetings. I feel this is completely appropriate since it is a BSA recognized award and, in particular, is an option for earning the Webelos Badge. I never thought it was even controversial (boy was I naive) until my son attended a recognition service held by the National Capital Area Council's Protestant Committee on Scouting (PoC) and received a ribbon for the pack flag. Our cub master initially reacted in what I thought was a paranoid manner. He responded that he'd this is was appropriate and was worried that by allowing the ribbon to be placed on the pack flag, we'd be endorsing one specific religion / denomination over all others. Never mind that we are sponsored by the Catholic fraternal organization The Knights of Columbus and their name is embalzoned across our pack's flag. He was concerned that this ribbon might even cause the KoC to end their tradition of non-interference in our affairs. After some back and forth between me, the CM and our Committee Chair; he finally decided that it wasn't a problem. I'd consistently stated that the ribbon was not presented by our church, but by a committee of the NCA council. For some reason, he eventually got it. I don't know if it was because I said I planned to bring it up to the committee as a whole and would accept the majority decision. Maybe he didn't want the embarrassment of being singled out as objecting to this. Whatever the reason, my request and position never changed, but he suddenly decided it wasn't a problem. The odd thing was that his own son and another boy were recognized the same night for receiving their emblems (my son had been recognized months earlier) and one den leader read a thank you note from a local church for some of her boys that had helped in their Scout Sunday service. This whole experience motivated me to become involved in our own Baltimore Area Council's PoC. I haven't been able to attend a meeting yet, but plan to make my first meeting next month.

Thanks all. I've been enjoying the forum. Been trolling through the Issues & Politics are mostly, so far. Fun stuff.

After reading through this whole thread (not in one sitting, thankfully), I feel I should weigh in, but not sure where to start so I'll just say this for now... I think faith is a large part of scouting and would not support doing away with the DRP or changing the Oath or Law. The BSA is a private organization is entitled to make their own membership requirements. That said, I think it's a matter of personal conviction. If someone feels confortable affirming them, I won't go out of my way to question them. I've been my son's den leader for all five years of his scouting carreer and have always left the religious requirements to be completed at home and trusted the parents to report that their son successfully completed them. It's on them if they choose to fake it. I'm not really sure how an atheist could, in good conscience, legitimately complete the various religious requirements. SSScout wrote, "It occurs to me that Jesus was not a white caucasoid european. Presumably neither was the Sanhedron. But Pilate was." Maybe I'm missing something, but what has that got to do with anything?

From GernBlansten: "Perhaps our resident theologians can confirm or correct me, but doesn't protestant theology dictate that Phelps actions here on the big blue ball won't affect his pathway upstairs, just his acceptance of Jesus?" I'm not a theologian, but you are correct that, according to Protestant doctrine, what determines one's salvation (or "pathway upstairs") is a true acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. However, not everyone that professes to be a believer truly is. See the words of Jesus from Matthew 7:15-23 (NIV), courtesy of BibleGateway.com. 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' It is still not the actions that determine one's salvation, but true acceptance. I can't truly know another's heart, but based on his actions, I won't expect to see Mr. Phelps on the other side of the pearly gates. It's always possible, though, that the vilest of people can come to Christ before they die. At that time, their slate is wiped clean by God and they are new person.

Hey, all. Son is about to bridge to a troop, but for now I'm still a Webelos Leader. Have been his den leader since Tigers. What will I do with that "one hour a week"? Well, I plan to stay involved in some capicity with the troop. Odd time to decide to sign up here, but better late than never. Also enjoy Geocaching with my son (or alone). Seems to be a great compliment to scouting.