DanKroh

Gonzo, "When the criteria changes, of course there will be more diagnoses." I disagree. Sometimes there will be more, sometimes there will be less. In the case of Asperger's, the diagnosis didn't exist before about 1994. For ADHD, the diagnostic criteria was refined in 1994, as well, in an attempt to differentiate exactly the kinds of things you are talking about; kids who have trouble with attention alone vs. kids who have hyperactivity/impulsivity, etc. Before 1994, diagnosing ADHD was a trial and error system; if the medication worked, that confirmed the diagnosis. We've found better tools since then to diagnosis ADHD, so yes, there has been an increase in cases. But to say that "Asperger's is the new ADHD", well, it just isn't. "Let me state it again: Add is over diagnosed. Ritalin and Adderall are over prescribed." I agree that ADHD is overdiagnosed, in children. I also think it is underdiagnosed in adults. However, I think trying to place the blame on teachers is also misguided. Teachers don't prescribe medications or make diagnoses. That should only be done by psychiatrists or psychologists after careful observation and evaluation. "Anyone who has a prescription should follow it, otherwise don't waste your time and your doctor's time." And parents are also following the prescription when they follow a doctor's advice to take the kid off of it for certain breaks. "I believe that if a parent gives the kid a holiday during a campout, the parent is risking the child's health, safety of others and puts undue (and unfair) stress on the adult and youth leadership during the campout." I agree with that, too. IMO, medication holidays should be for times when the kid is not going to be under pressure to conform to certain standards of behavior or to be asked to perform tasks that require focused attention. A campout is not one of those times. "What people don't understand is that many health problems are actually caused by misalignments in the spinal column. Problem is, people take pills for health problems that MIGHT be helped with chiropractic care." I'm glad that you've had patients who have shown improvement for these conditions under your care, and that you recognize that there are many who will not. I'm a great fan of alternative medicine, myself, but feel it is important to stay open to ALL possible treatments, including medication.

Hmm. I'm glad to see that some of the misinformation presented early on in this thread has already been corrected, but I'd like to add my belated 2 cents, as well. As a mental health professional and parent of two boys with ADHD, one of whom also has Asperger's, I can tell you that ADHD and Asperger's are NOT the same thing. My older son with AS behaves very, very differently than my younger son who only has ADHD. As far as medication holidays, yes, they were mostly advised for kids on Ritalin, but Adderall and Concerta are both still amphetamine derivates, and have the same appetite suppressing/growth inhibiting effects as Ritalin. The only medication currently used for ADHD that is not a stimulant (amphetamine) is Strattera, but many docs hesitate to prescribe it because of reports of liver problems. My older son who takes Strattera (because the stimulant meds exacerbate other symptoms he has) has to have his LFTs checked every 6 months. Now while I don't give either of my boys medication holidays because their ADHD symptoms are severe enough that they can't function without the meds, I know others both professionally and privately who do. But they only do it on the advice of the psychiatrist who monitors their children. Are there parents who might skip dosages to stretch scripts that are costly? Quite probably, given the sad state of drug costs and lack of insurance some folks have to deal with. But I think it is unfair to paint all parents who do medication holidays with that same brush. As far as the overdiagnosis of ADHD (and Aspergers), I agree and disagree with that. I think a lot of people don't understand that the rise in diagnosis of these conditions is mostly due to a better understanding of these disorders, and better diagnostic criteria, even in the last 10 years. On the other hand (and this is a pet peeve of mine), pediatricians should not be in the business of diagnosing ADHD or any psychiatric disorder, IMO, and I think that is where most mis- and overdiagnoses come from. ADHD should be diagnosed by a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist who specializes in pediatric disorders. Once the diagnosis has been made and medication has been tried and settled on by a psychiatrist, then I have no problem with a pediatrician continuing to provide scripts for that medication. But a psychiatrist will still need to be consulted every 6 months or so because dosages change very quickly sometimes for growing children.

Although, I have to admit that when I got flattened from behind by an inattentive snowboarder while I was skiing last week, I did find myself muttering something about banning. But a hot bowl of chowder later, I was over it.

Excellently put, OGE. Couldn't agree more. Instead of treating the symptoms (by banning stuff), it is much better to treat the underlying cause (lack of respect).

"We only had 195 people (vs. 320) and we had Jeff Foxworthy (vs. Oliver North) and we raised $212,000 (vs. $160,000) in one morning." Now that there's funny, right there, I don't care who you are... Kudos to your district, Brent. I would definitely prefer Foxworthy over North any day.

ASM, I like the Jamboree idea. But for the favorite cuisine, do you really thing the others would be willing to partake of freshly sacrificed babies? (Sorry, could resist...) As far as your other question, I'm an initiated Wiccan clergy, who also attends a UU church on a semi-regular basis. I was a United Methodist until I was about 20 or so, and I was also married to practicing Jew for 12 years. I continue to expose my children to the Jewish faith as I am able to honor her memory, as well as any other faith that they show interest in, and support whatever decision they make about their religious paths. My 12 y.o. has chosen a Pagan path, but my 7 y.o. still considers himself a "seeker" (his word) but seems to be leaning toward a Christian path. And it's all good.

"Your post reminded me of something my daughter asked years ago, "Dad, do pagans eat people?" I nearly choked on my breakfast. So I responded, "Only during communion, punkin'." At which time my wife smacked me on the back of my head with a sausage. Doesn't get much better than that!" Nah, Pack, only on full moons and bonfire nights.....

Both the Bear and Webelos requirements read "Earn the religious emblem of your faith". Notice it doesn't say "Earn the BSA-approved religious emblem of your faith" Wicca has a religious emblem, a curriculum developed by a group called Covenant of the Goddess. However, it is not, and probably never will be, BSA-approved. I would not be surprised if other faiths that are not listed on the BSA-approved list also have emblem programs. However, my reading of the requirments is that any religious emblem that has been approved by *your faith*, NOT the BSA, meets the requirment. My son will be earning the UUA Cub award for Bear and the CoG Cub Award for Webelos. My older son, in Boy Scouts, will probably be earning the CoG Boy Scout level award at some point, since he has decided to follow a Pagan path.

ASM915, while there may be some American Indian religions that have absorbed the idea of Jesus as divine, I think most of them are still polytheistic in nature. On a couple of Pagan forums that I interact on, there are a good number of people who identify as NA who also identify their spirituality as Pagan. Just because they "believes in Jesus", doesn't mean that their religion is Abrahamic (depending on *what* they believe *about* Jesus). I like the idea of a religious diversity award. I think the BSA has a great opportunity to teach about other religions. Even for Pagans to learn about Pagan paths other than their own would be a good thing. Unfortunately, some Pagan know about as much about other paths as your average Catholic would know about one of the more esoteric Protestant denominations; the beliefs can be that divergent among Pagan religions.

Trev says: "I can not speak for Wicca, but UUs are fully accepted and supported by BSA at all levels (notwithstanding possible misunderstandings at the local level by scattered units here and there)." While the BSA, at least on my local level in my personal experience, is fully accepting of Pagans, the national organization has put a few roadblocks in place to keep Pagans from ever having a religious emblem program. Part of it is due to the nature of Pagan religions and their organization (or lack thereof), but it seems to me that the BSA is certainly not being very accomodating of the unique nature of Pagan religions. The problems comes from the "must have 25 units charterd" and "be a national organization". Paganism is an umbrella that includes many, many religions, of which Wicca is the largest and best known. Because we are really many different religions which would each have a different governing body, it would be very, very difficult for any Pagan religion other than Wicca to ever meet those requirements. A national Wiccan organization called Covenant of the Goddess has tried to become a "governing body" for Wicca, but they are not acknowledged by a majority of Wiccans. Still, CoG has developed an emblem curriculum and has tried to petition the BSA for recognition of the program, and were basically stymied by their policies. Any other Pagan religions (such as Druids, Asatru, Reconstructionists, and many, many others) would really have no chance whatsoever of ever meeting the BSA requirments for a religious emblem. CoG has tried to make their curriculum as generically Pagan as they can, but it is still an Earth-centered curriculum, and not all Pagans are even Earth-centered. The problem I see is that the BSA wants to control the curricula offered by religious organizations, when what they should be doing is trusting each religion to come up with a curriculum appropriate to THAT RELIGION. BSA should butt out of the religious emblem program entirely, IMO, and not have a list of "approved" emblems. Either allow them all, or allow none. So while I have experienced that the BSA *tolerates* Pagan members, I certainly have not felt *supported* or *fully accepted* outside of my local unit.

"We also have found that kids with ADD/ADHD, that toward the end of their medication day, when their meds are wearing off and they are going toward a "melt-down", we have found that caffine helps calm these kids down. We give them Mtn. Dew, Jolt soda, coffee, etc. (After explaining to the parents and showing them studies that support the facts), the scouts calm right down and usually want to go to bed early." Yep, isn't the paradoxical effect of ADHD medications wonderful? Give the kid a stimulant, and it calms them down. Caffeine also being a stimulant, mimics the effect of the ADHD medications. If the parents are on board with it, I think it is a great way to help these kids make it through the evening. One suggestion, though, might be to try to get them to take the caffeine without sugar (they do make Diet Mt. Dew and Diet Jolt, or coffee with Equal) because the sugar can aggravate hyperactivity in some kids, or can lead to another crash, of blood sugar, after the sugar rush from the soda has worn off.

this is one of my favorite Yule stories, which we have used in our Yule ritual: THE FIRST SONG taken from the CD 'This Winter's Night' by Mother Tongue. This story begins a long long time ago when Earth and Sun made the first beings. -- the very first plants and animals and people. It was springtime and the Sun shone warm and bright from His high perch above, and Earth, proud mother that She was, held and fed Her newborns and relished them with tenderness and love. It was a time of joy, it was a time of great delight. The Moon waxed and waned time and again in the night sky, and the children of the Earth grew well and strong through Summertime. They played and danced and Earth and Sun watched over them. Then Autumn came, and the Earth began to sleep much longer every day. She grew tired and pale. She could no longer feed Her children and had no strength to make new life. High above the Sun grew more distant and took longer to return each morning. The nights grew longer and cold winds blew where none had blown before. And then, one day, Earth went to sleep and never did wake up. She wrapped Herself in a blanket of snow and rested Her tired head on pillows of dried leaves and She did not wake up. Her children could do nothing to rouse Her from her slumber. They prodded Her, they called Her, but She would not awaken. In the sky, the Sun was nowhere to be seen and the children of the Earth felt fear and also felt despair. This was the longest night that they had ever known. "What shall become of us" they pondered. "Earth Mother sleeps, and Father Sun is oh so far away that we can barely see Him in the sky. He is much too far to hear our call. What shall we do?" So they brought their questions and their fears to the Moon, the sister of the Sun, for they knew not where else to turn. She closed Her eyes and took a slow deep breath and looked within Herself and awoke thoughts that had never been awakened until then. She opened Her soft eyes and said "When hope is lost, the best way to get it back is with a song. Climb you the tallest trees, the biggest hills and the mountains and yule a song to reach the Sun. Now 'yule' is a word from one of the worlds oldest tongues. It is related to words like 'yell' or 'yodel' and it means 'to call out in song'. But the first beings had never heard a song so once again they sought the Moon's advice. "How shall we yule?" they asked. "How shall we sing a song?" "Take the best of what you have," she said, "the best of what you are. Take what you love; take what you cherish most. Take your joys, your dreams, your fondest hopes and weave them all together in a sound." And so they did. They climbed atop the tallest trees, the mountains and the hills. They stood in all the places that would bring them closest to the Sun. They shut their eyes and thought and felt the best of thoughts and feelings and dreamt the finest dreams. And as they did their voices rang out and made a bridge of song across the sky to reach the distant Sun. He heard, and turned, and smiled, and wrapped Himself in all His light and warmth and sped to where the yuling voices called. As He drew near the sleeping Earth did stir and dreamed a dream of Spring. And so the wheel of life made its first turn, and hope and joy prevailed. And ever since, that time of year has been called Yule in honour of the song. But the first song did not end. It had such power, such allure that the first beings kept singing it throughout, and then the second beings born of the Earth took up the song, as did the third and so it ever since has gone, through years and years until this very day. At times the song is very soft and scarcely can be heard above the din and clatter of our lives, but when Yule comes it rises and swells in memory of that night when the Sun heard, and light and life returned. And so do we upon (this) that longest night gather with those we love and who love us and stand upon the body of slumbering Earth and light the log with last years and lift our voices soaring to the Sun and join the song that first was sung so very long ago. We sing our thanks to those who went before and sing our fondest wish to those who come after. We bask in the returning light of re-awakened hope and welcome YULE.

"christmas is 6 days latter" Huh? 6 days later than what? This year Hanukkah started on the 15th and ends the evening of the 22nd (it changes from year to year, btw). So this year, Christmas is either 10 days after the start of Hanukkah or 3 days after the end of Hanukkah. My boys had a great Hanukkah visiting with their grandparents, and I wish everyone who celebrates it a great last couple of days of Hanukkah!(This message has been edited by DanKroh)

Thanks, Trev. Happy Solstice to All! I for one am greatly looking forward to the return of the sun.

gwd-scouter, your COH sounds like it was a wonderful experience for everyone involved. It's great when the scouts are dedicated, and you can perhaps see some of where they get it when you see the parents and other family members there with them to recognize their achievements. If I may, I'd like to add my own little bit of positive news (ok, I 'fess up, to also indulge in a parent's pride). I'm attending my older son's COH tonight, and while he is not advancing tonight, he is receiving one merit badge--Communications. This is his first Eagle-required MB, but more importantly, represents another major accomplishment for him. You see, he has Asperger's. For him to have gotten up and made a speech (wish I could have seen it), not to mention attending a town meeting and being able to write about it.... these things are a big deal for him. I'm so proud of him for choosing to work on this badge, and completing it. That is my present from him this season, as far as I am concerned, and it is a keeper.

Wow, tominrichmond, you really hit the motherload of being offensive to homosexuals here: "Moreover, a line has to be drawn somewhere. If we suddenly decide that, despite 6,000 years of Judeo-Christian belief, homosexuality is OK or just another viable lifestyle option, then what's next? Bigamy? Pederasty? (take note of that one, scouters); bestiality?" Homosexual is NOT comparable to pederasty or bestiality. And the only bigamists I've heard of are heterosexuals. How offensive would you find it if I said that we have to draw a line because if we accept Judeo-Christian traditions (as represented in the Bible), then what's next? Slavery? Filicide? (take note of that one, scouters) Genocide? Rather than rehashing the problem with the whole "slippery slope" argument, I would instead refer you to these threads where it has been discussed (ad nauseum) in the past: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=139512#id_139601 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=133994#id_134358 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=143219#id_143297 (Edited to add: BTW, I by no means believe that modern Judaism or Christianity advocates any of those things)(This message has been edited by DanKroh)

"Well the NIH was founded in 1930. The United States did OK for over a century and a half without it." Hmmm, smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, influenza epidemics. An average life expectancy of about 45. Oh yeah, I want to go back there. "And instead of spending it in Iraq or anywhere, they can give the money back to you and me. It is ours anyway. I can spend it better than they can." No thanks. I'd rather have the heart surgery that allowed my older son to survive past 8 years old. I'd rather have the cure for cancer that may come in time to prevent my sons from suffering from the form of cancer that claimed their mother. But you go ahead and spend your share.

Brent, The article I referred to in The Scientist (http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/23813/) was actually a response to that JAMA article, and examined the sources of funding for the most frequently cited articles. It suggests that the percentage of federal funding is cyclical, and has reached a higher precentage just the year before the JAMA data you quoted. But yes, there has been an overall trend in the last decade to increase private funding sources. I don't have access to the original JAMA article, so there are several questions I would have about their data. The summaries I have read said that they examined the data for a decade, but doesn't say anything about whether the increase has been steady or cyclical (as suggested by The Scientist's study). It also seems to only be considering the NIH, which is NOT the only source of federal funding. Do you have access to the article so that you could address these concerns? Also, as someone else pointed out, getting private funding is only part of the issue. Labs that conduct research on non-federal approved lines cannot use what federal funding they do have to pay for expenses that might even indirectly support that non-allowed research, which means administrative and facilities costs. It makes so much extra work that most scientists are dissuaded from the research for fear of losing their federal funding, which is NOT that easily replaced. But my overall point is, it is not so simple to just "get private funding". All the labs I've had experience with get some of their funding from both private and federal sources. And having seen labs fold completely from losing one federal grant, I don't know many scientists who are going to put their federal funding at risk, even if that federal funding is only a part of their funding sources.

"I do not think it is proper for the government to be spending my hard earned money on researh that is not related to the core functions of the federal government." So we should abolish the entire NIH? Nothing that the NIH does or funds is a core function of the federal government. I'm sure that $20 billion that the NIH gave out in research grants last year could better spent in Iraq, huh? Heck, while we're at it, lets get rid of the CDC, too. They don't do aything core to the federal government either, right? BTW, in the federal vs. private funding argument, federal funds generally make up anywhere from 50% to 75% (depending on the year) of funds that have been availabe for biomedical research. So saying "they can get private funding" basically removes the majority (and sometimes vast majority) of funding opportunities. I think packsaddle has an excellent example in the genesis of molecular biology advances. When molecular biology began, many were sceptical about it's ability to produce anything useful. But the medical advances that have been accomplished are too numerous to name. I also agree with Gern's assessment about in-vitro fertilization. Instead of trying to dissuade the use of the left over embryoes from the procedure, why has there not instead been an outrage aimed at outlawing IVF instead? Seems to me that those who oppose the use of those embryoes for stem-cell research are hypocritical if they don't also oppose the creation of those embryoes, many of which will be destroyed.(This message has been edited by DanKroh)

Eamonn, My prayers are with you, your son, the boy's family, and all those touched by such a terrible, terrible tragedy. Hopefully OJ's school will have grief counselors on hand. Encourage him to make use of them. I've got 4 more years before my oldest is 16, and him driving does scare me witless. When I was 16, being able to drive seemed like the most reasonable thing in the world. Now a 16 y.o. with a license is one of the most terrifying thing I can imagine.

Actually, Barry, that was EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

What do you think are the most important skills/lessons/interests that a Cub Scout leader can teach/foster in Cubs to prepare them for Boy Scouts? And, as a follow up, when should preparation for Boy Scouts start? As Webelos, from the beginning as Tigers, or somewhere in between?

"Bush says we don't torture." And I guess that makes it true? At least in the mind of Mr. Bush, it does, huh? Even when photographs from Abu Ghraib and first hand accounts from the soldiers involved in these "aggressive interrogation techniques" contradict him. Sometimes I wonder if there is anything Mr. Bush could ever do that would drive away that small minority of blindly faithful. Has anyone else been reading the accounts of the young servicewoman Alyssa Peterson, who it appears may have committed suicide after objecting to those same interrogation techniques? No, the enemy doesn't follow the rules of the Geneva Convention. But just because someone else rolls around in garbage doesn't mean we should do it to; all that does is cover us all with the filth of inhumanity.

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that because fire departments are municipal services, they are funded by the town, and are therefore under the same restrictions as public schools. Likewise, police departments or any other municipal department supported by tax dollars could not charter a unit. Interestingly, our troop is chartered the local water and light company, which is not supported by tax dollars, so they are technically separate from the town, even though many people think they are part of the town services.

Hi Michelle, Most kids who have moderate coordination problems like those you describe for your nephew have a legitimate neurological foundation for those problems, especially when you mention problems with proprioception (the body in relation to space). Such disorders fall under the blanket term dyspraxia. Now, I'm not a neurologist, but I do have some experience with dyspraxia because it is one of disorders that commonly goes hand-in-hand with Autism Spectrum Disorders such as Asperger's (which my older son has) and also with ADHD (which both my sons have). Those that suffer from dyspraxia are also more often stricken by anxiety and panic attacks (like your nephew) because of their uncertainty in relying on their bodies to do what they are trying to get them to do. If he were younger (in the troop 2 years says he's around 13?), I'd definitely recommend getting him to a neurologist and then getting him some physical therapy to help with his gross and fine motor deficiencies. At this point, it is probably still worth consulting with a neurologist if possible, since he may still benefit from therapy. As far as scouts, I am facing the same situation with my son. Can't swim, and is afraid to try. Can't ride a bike, and probably never will. Can't do strenuous hikes because he also has a congenital heart condition. So that group of merit badges is going to be a big challenge for him, if he decides that he wants to pursue Eagle. But, like your nephew, he is also stymied at his current rank (Tenderfoot in his case), because of the swimming requirement. One thought we have discussed in his troop is letting him do the requirement wearing a PFD, since he is happy to be in the water with a PFD on. Might something like that work with your nephew? That might also be another reason for a trip to a neurologist; if you can get a definitive diagnosis of dyspraxia, it would help to smooth the way to allowing him to complete alternative advancement requirements. Good luck with the situation, and I hope he is able to continue to enjoy his scouting experience.(This message has been edited by DanKroh)