DancesWithSpreadsheets

The last Council Family Camp I went to, another family in the campsite we were in (not from our pack) had an unusual tenting arrangement. It was basically 3 tents, a larger (say 4 man) tent with two smaller (say 2 man) tents, one on either side, and the smaller ones were connected to the bigger one by nylon "tunnels". If I noticed who made it I've forgotten, but perhaps something like that would satisfy YP guidelines and keep the boys feeling secure as well. I guess a two room tent would violate the letter of G2SS, but might be an acceptable compromise. Regards, DWS

As long as it's liquid, water of any temp will keep you hydrated, provided you drink enough. Cold weather dries you out quicker than you think, so bring plenty. Hot Cocoa adds some carbs, which help to keep your metabolism revved up. Caffeine is a diuretic, so watch your coffee intake. Beyond than, I'd say it's a metter of personal preference. Have fun, DWS

DesertRat, you've given me a bad flashback to my 70's Sears Himalayan model backpack (shudder). Perhaps if the hip-belt had fit properly it wouldn't have been so bad (I was really skinny in those days), but it's probably why I haven't been backpacking since I aged out. I'm getting ready to buy an Alps Mountaineering Denali, I hope I have better luck with it. Regards, DWS

Are you sure it's condensation, and not, say, moisture seeping through the floor? From your descriptiona dn the link you posted it looks like most of the upper part of the tent is mesh, so the moisture from your breath should pass through that and any condensation form on the fly, where it drips down to the ground (unless the fly is touching the tent somewhere, another possible problem). Maybe if the mesh was really fine it could support condensation, can you see where it's forming? As one of the previous posters suggested, I'd recommend checking and maybe re-sealing your seams. Good luck! DWS

Pohsuwed, thanks for the reply. Yours is certainly a valid way of looking at the information presented in the article, and as I said, this is undoubtedly an exceptional young man. Still, my reaction on reading that article was as I indicated one of sadness. As you said I don't know all the fact and circumstances surrounding those events, and it would be wrong of me to cast aspersions about this young man's motives in completing all 121 MB's. I suppose there will always be over-acheivers and we should be glad that many of them direct that energy towards Scouting, so it should be no suprise that some small number of boys get all 121. Does that warrant special recognition? Personally I don't think so, but if BSA wants to institute one, well I think there are more important things to argue about. Regards, DWS

One nitpick Eagle92; the movie was "Stalag 17". Stalag 13 was the camp in "Hogan's Heroes". The former was a much more accurate portrayal of WWII POW camps, but the latter is fun too. Regards, DWS

The Winter Issue of Eagle Scout Magazine (the NESA publication, fka Eagletter) has an article about their 2009 Scholorship recipients. Quoting one of the bios: "He earned all 20 Webelos Scout activity pins and all 121 merit badges..." "He finished his Bugling merit badge requirements even though he never warmed up to the instrument -- 'I never want to touch that instrument again' he said - and earned his Waterskiing merit badge despite shoulder and knee problems." (page 11) Now, I have no doubt that this is an exceptional young man, and I don't want to denigrate his achievement or embarrass him, but after reading the second quoted section I was saddened by the idea that he earned the bugling merit badge for the sake of the badge, not because he was truly interested int he instrument; and that he may have risked significant health complcations in the pursuit of a MB for water-skiing. Wide and shallow? Probably not, but not in the spirit of the merit badge program either. Regards, DWS

Yes that sounds like what he meant, but its not what he (or she) said. As I said, poorly worded question. Likewise question 5, optional for whom? Committee members, youth members, COR, T.C. MITS? Regards, DWS

As to #3, what happened to "Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout"? From the information given, it would appear that a 30 yo Eagle Scout/Scoutmaster is not permitted to supervise a swimming event. Poorly worded questions. Regards, DWS

GaHillBilly, I appreciate that you made an effort to answer honestly and completely, with an emphasis on what goes on in the real world, but somewhere in all that I think you made my point for me. No church I know of excludes celibate homosexuals. They may consider the thoughts and desires that even celibate homosexuals have to be sinful, but as long as they do not act on those impulses (or they are sufficiently discreet, at least in those churches that have their head in the sand) then they are not excluded. Why should the scout units they sponsor be any different? As others have stated previously in this thread, I believe that youth members of the scouting movement should not be engaging in sexual activity, period. That said, what happens outside of a scouting activity is largely outside of our control (and yes, I am a scouter, albeit an inexperienced one, currently registered with a CS pack sponsored by an RC church). I guess what set me off in your previous post was this idea that, by allowing gays into BSA we would be somehow condoning homosexual practices. I think that if we firmly state that sexual activity (regardless of orientation) is incompatible with scouting then we are no more condoning homosexual behavior than we are condoning the behavior of our heterosexual scouts who go parking with their girlfriends on Friday night after the football game. As far as the issues of tenting and showering, I think the issue there is the perceived risk more than the actual risk of sexual behavior. I think you are right that a lot of conservative parents will balk at the idea of their son sharing close quarters with a gay scout, but the reality is that the risk of improper behavior is not that great. If six boys are sharing a group shower facility, and one of them is gay, whats going to happen if he tries something? Unless hes built like King Kong I think hed be wise to keep his hands (and his eyes) to himself. And how often do boys shower at camp anyway? As for tenting, like others have said, no scout should be forced to tent with someone hes uncomfortable with. If that means the gay scout tents alone, ok so be it. I do think that if I was a scoutmaster and had two or more openly gay scouts in my troop I would be hesitant to let them tent together unless I had a very high level of trust with them, but thats a judgment call, not something that needs 6 pages of bold print in G2SS. But perceptions are important too, especially of the parents who entrust their children to us. As with overcoming many such problems, I think communication is the key. First off, the parents, as well as the scouts, should have an opportunity to get to know the boy in question as a person, not just that gay kid. If they refuse to or still have qualms, well perhaps they would be better off finding a troop that shares their feelings on the matter. This is longer than I intended it to be, and I think it will be my last post on the subject, so let me say this; I believe that all boys (and more than a few girls) can benefit from scouting, and we as adult leaders should be looking for ways to include them. By turning away young people because we are afraid of the reaction of some of our COs, we not only harm those who are excluded, we also set a bad example for those who are under our tutelage. Regards, DWS

GHB wrote: " Please remember that most of these churches are not hypocritical on this point, at least in their official stance: they simply say that anybody who is not heterosexually married should not engage in sex. Period. No exceptions. (But I'm not claiming that practice always measures up to principals.) Troops with orthodox religious sponsors, whether Mormon, Muslim, Jewish or Christian are not going to support an organization which allows boys who identify themselves as practicing homosexuals." One question GHB, how do these CO's feel about supporting an organization which allows boys who identify themselves as practicing heterosexuals, who are unmarried? By your analysis is that not immoral behavior as well? Or do these organizations recognize levels or immorality with homosexual activity at a higher level than unmarried hetero dalliances? Or are we just dealing with a double standard? Regards, DWS

I think it starts with that "vision" thing. What does the CO want this crew to be, ultimately? If all they want is to cycle kids through, get them some firearms training, then send them on their merry way and make room for the next batch, it looks like they're pretty much there. If they wan something more, say a group of young people who bond together and form a cohesive group, one where some character development can take place, then maybe you have a chance on selling them on the BSA/Venturing way of accomplishing that. Sure it'll mean a commitment to do some training on their part, but if they see the benefits, and the training is not too inconvenient, well it's a lot easier than reconstructing 100 years of experience on their own by trial and error. Good luck, DWS

Lisa, I'd say it shouldn't require any special emphasis, but I like to make sure expectations are clear up front. Of course the way things stand now it should be pretty clear that "cruising" behavior is not tolerated. But I was talking about what would happen if a policy change allowed an openly gay scout into the program.

Sorry if the reference was confusing. What I was trying to convey, is that a scout troop is not the place to be looking for a hook-up. And this applies to gay or straight scouts, but since at present aside from Venturing, BSA is boys only, I think this would warrant special emphasis to a homosexual scout. Regards, DWS

GHB, your hypothetical left me scratching my head. Are you saying that if, in your outfit, a heterosexual boy abused, molested or otherwise inappropriately touched a younger scout, he would most likely get away with it, but if there was evidence that the perpetrator was homosexual, he'd be expelled in a heartbeat? To me, the orientation doesn't matter, it's the conduct. And that goes for homo, hetero, whatever. Allowing gays (openly) in the program would take some adjusting, but I think it would be more of an adjustment to the attitudes and perceptions of small minded people who think that the value of a person depends on who he is attracted to. A gay scout would have to be told, in no uncertain terms, that a scout troop is not Club Med, but in most units I've seen, I'd worry more about the abuse that a gay scout would be subjected to rather than what he would commit. Regards DWS

URL for survey: https://scoutnet.scouting.org/survey/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.dll?idx=RZKJS6

Anybody else seen the survey about a possible new Scout T-Shirt linked to from the scouting.org homepage? I like the idea of a performance material T-shirt, I'm not so sure about some of the ideas presented about colors, such as scout rank denoted by the shirt color. Your thoughts?

I say that a forum like this is a bad place to go looking for tax advice, especially in a spcialized area such as tax exempt organizations. FWIW, it is true that generally, churches are not required to file for tax exempt status, but the IRS form used to make an application for TE status (Form 1023) includes instructions and schedules specific to churches, so apparently the IRS thinks it's a good idea. Most other organizations must file an application in order to be recognized as tax exempt under IRC 501©(3). Treasury Regulations section 1.501-1(a)(2) states: (2) An organization, other than an employees' trust described in section 401(a), is not exempt from tax merely because it is not organized and operated for profit. In order to establish its exemption, it is necessary that every such organization claiming exemption file an application form as set forth below with the district director for the internal revenue district in which is located the principal place of business or principal office of the organization. I'm not sure of this but I'm guessing that Churches get a pass due to the "establishment of religion" clause in the Constitution. This post is provided for information only and should not be considered tax advice. Consult a competent tax professional is highly recommended before acting based on this information. Regards, DWS

BrentAllen wrote: I think claiming you are an athiest and homosexual, which is what Jersey stated, is a lot different than "not being sure" or "avoiding acting on feelings." One can be a homosexual without engaging in homosexual conduct, just as one can be a heterosexual and avoid engaging in that conduct as well. If one is a homosexual, and believes homosexual acts to be immoral, then one may keep oneself morally straight by avoiding such conduct. As I said, Duty to God is a bit different, but absent a flat out declaration that one believes there is no god, I think there is an opportunity to discuss what a young person's duty is to the God he (or she) believes in, no matter what form that deity takes. Regards, DWS

Pack, when asked about my religious beliefs, if I deign to give any answer beyond "none of your business" my response is along the lines of, "I believe in God, it's the people who claim to speak for him that I don't trust". Regards, DWS

Brent, your ellipses bypass 4 very important words, "to do my best". Even if you accept the premise that homosexuality is immoral per se (and I do not), a young man who avoids acting on his feelings can certainly be said to be doing his best to keep himself morally straight. Duty to God is another matter, but I think a young person who is struggling with their beliefs is still doing his best. Is it better to blindly accept what you have been taught in church about the nature of the Diety, or to seek your own relationship with the Almighty? Regards, DWS

You had a coach for debating homosexuals? Wow, I had no idea some folks took sticking up for their gender identity so seriously!

I don't think any form of YPT is going to deter a determined abuser. I've sat through the local RC diocese's "Safe Environment" training, and mostly what I got out of the three hour session was: 1. There are people out there who will do bad things to your kids 2. For the most part they look normal and are not strangers to their victems 3. About the only thing we can do about it is keep our guard up. All of which I pretty well knew before hand. Thanks, but I'll take the BSA's training with concrete policiesw and procedures. The incident in question did not happen at a BSA function, where YPT guidelines would have been in effect and at least made it more difficult for the perpetrator. Background checks only work to weed out those who have been caught before. Making the youth aware of their role in YP with "A Time to Tell" or similar materials is important, but probably won't do much good if the youth is a willing particiant in the encounter. Sadly, all you can do is all you can do. Regards, DWS

My sons's den is having trouble with the same requirement. The TV stations are getting a bit difficult to go-see. One I contacted only does studio tours between 10 and 11 am on Tuesdays, and specify a minimum age of 9 for participants. A radio station or newspaper may not be as glamorous, but it may have to do. We're also considering a visit to a local hands-on museum that has a mock-up of a TV newsroom complete with anchor desk, working cameras and green-screen capability. Some of the parents are discussing whether this woudl satisfy the requirement. Regards, DWS

Stosh, I don't know about any brass player. As a tuba player I'd have a hard time getting my fat lips into that tiny bugle mouthpiece. Course if you don't mind your bugle calls about 2 octaves lower I could always play them on my Sousaphone! DWS