dan

It sure seems like adding a requirement to have been trained in TLT should be added to the age and rank requirements. But this may eliminate scouts where the troops do not do TLT. On page 1 of the NYLT staff guide it does say. Youth leadership is a three-phase training experience, and a common thread will connect all three phases. The first phase begins in the troop with the senior patrol leader and the Scoutmaster conducting the training. Phase two is NYLT conducted by the local council, and the third phase is advanced training, a week long experience at Philmont Scout Ranch.

From page 15 of the staff guide for NYLT. An NYLT course is ideal for training senior patrol leaders and patrol leaders. It can also be a valuable experience for other older scouts. Be 13 years old of age and have completed the seventh grade. Be a First Class Scout.

Many hands make light work. Too many chefs spoil the broth.

My council has the Eagle candidate contact the letter writer and provide them with a form and self addressed envelope addressed to the chairman of the Eagle board. I find it quite amusing that some here think that it is OK because scouts should follow the Scout Oath that they should do the work even when it is written that an adult should do it. Apparently they do not think Adult should follow the Scout Oath also! IMHO this is adult showing the scouts who is in charge. And showing the scouts that once you become an adult you do not have to follow the rules. A little tweaking is a good thing!

I would suggest that you take these suggestion to your SPL and have him take it to the PLC and let them decide one or two patrols. I would keep the SPL to run the troop and a PL to run the patrol. No matter if you have one patrol or two. I probably would not have a ASPL. Until you get bigger (which I think will not be very long! sounds like you are providing a wonderful program). I would have the SPL camp with the adults and over see the PL.

I would say the discussion on the BSA program is because most people do not know the BSA program. Which is why they come and ask questions on a discussions forum! I guess if we where all UCs we would just say nope the the adults in the unit are correct, suck it up and deal with it. After all we would never want a UC to help a unit run the BSA program correctly, would we? (Do you really want to know what I think about UCs? You are a prime example what is wrong with UCs and why they should be done away with.) Some discussion is because many scouters are stuck in ruts and say this is the way we have all which done it. Some discussion is because some scouters are dictators and not leaders. If we all sat back and did not try to run the best BSA program that we can, have we done our best? I am glad this got moved it issue and politics. I can be more blunt here.

I did not see anywhere on this thread where anyone said they would not count a partial pull up. I may have missed it though. I think I read where someone say that they would allow the requirement to go from a pull up and 30 days later change it to a pull down and pass the scout. So are you saying no matter what a unit is doing you will support them? I think you are wrong on this. It would be more Helpful to guide them to run a BSA program. This can be done by being Loyal, Helpful and Friendly and not wishy washy. I like my information straight and to the point.

It seems like what you propose is the YMCA, Awana, or Royal Rangers, our Methodist youth group, maybe Campfire Girls, I mean Campfire No, what I proposed was some slight adaptations to the BSA program. I could create a troop/crew and stay within the BSA program, at least within enough so that the BSA would not question what was going on. When should program adaptations stop? When the COR say enough? When you are no longer doing scouting? When teaching leadership stops? Letting pull up requirement is changed to a pull down? Where is the line?

Some disagree, eh? They like bein' self-appointed program cops. Fills egos or somethin Reads to me like the pot calling the kettle black. In the area where I reside there are approxametly 6 troops within 20 miles that have at least 40 scouts per troop. And at least 5 other troop within 20 miles that have less than 40 scouts. It seems that this area is going a good job of reaching the youth. But I feel I could create a troop and have over 100 members in less than 6 months. How would I do this? I would do some small program adaptations. I would make the monthly meeting short maybe play a fun game and have a nice tasty snack. No opening or closing. The outings would all be planned for the scouts, advancements hand feed to them including eagle projects, make it as easy as possible for the scouts. None of this boy lead stuff. We (the adults) would make it fun and easy for the scouts. Advancement would be fast and easy. The scouts would be having fun and advancing. I would include girls (and maybe even some others that should not be a boy scout) in the meetings and camp outs and lots of pizza delivery during the outings. I know I can find a CO that would like to run this type of program. The first step on the slippery slope is usually a small step.

Bevah You think the SM blew up at the meeting, as do I. I think this is an issue, you do not. I think some time had to pass for Scott to contact the DC. I have not idea what you think on this, you keep ignoring this part. Are you saying the SM should TRY to remove this scouts advancement? Or just hold on the the patch? You ask me what is more important, I say the scout you say the scouter, I guess we will have to disagree on this point.

Again BUT Bevah How about the Double shame on him for not correcting the situation quickly. You seem to have ignored this part?

BUT Beavah The original post said the SM overturned the BOR. NOT that he was going to hold on to the patch for a little while. Big difference in overturning the BOR and holding onto the patch. Are you saying the SM spoke in haste and frustration? If so shame on him. Double shame on him for not correcting the situation quickly. If Scott had time to contact the district commissioner, the SM had time to explain it better to the scout.

djk8 did you ever get your files uploaded? if you need some help still, I maybe able to help you through the process.

IT IS WORKING!

We are posting at the same time. But now I see a woodgrain background that was not there before. I am going have a look at the image for the background to see if I can get some clues. Have I ever told anyone how much I love to read HTML code!

I have not used word to create a website, so bear with me here. It sure looks like your HTML page is looking for the image index_files/image005.gif You uploaded it as AACouncilPatch.gif try remnaming that file on your PC to image005.gif and uploading it to the site again using the name image005.gif and see what happens.

I see on your other posting that you said you did upload the images. Go to http://www.scouter.com/hosting/webaccount.asp you will have to sign in to get there. You will see a list of all of the files for your website, make sure the pictures are there Make sure the HTML page name of the pitcures match what you uploaded. this is what you should see bdsblk.gif 945 B GIF Image 12/2/2003 bsa.gif 1 KB GIF Image 12/2/2003 bslogobkgd1.gif 4 KB GIF Image 12/2/2003 bslogocolor.gif 2 KB GIF Image 12/2/2003 bslogocolor1.gif 0 B GIF Image 12/2/2003 cal.htm 2 KB HTML Document 9/14/2004 cal.JPG 63 KB JPEG Image 1/25/2004 flag.jpg 8 KB JPEG Image 10/4/2002 flag1.gif 12 KB GIF Image 10/4/2002 index.html 3 KB HTML Document 12/2/2003 links.htm 3 KB HTML Document 12/2/2003 When you say office what program did you use?

Did you upload (transfer) the pictures to the website? You have to upload the web page and the pictures separately. When you upload the web page it will not upload the pictures for you, you will have to select each picture to upload. Here is one of the images the web page is looking for, v:imagedata src="index_files/image005.gif"

Beavah You have some really good feedback, most things you post I agree with. The one thing I struggle with is that you say any unit/person can do anything they want with the BSA program. Now you say. tryin' to help folks understand the BSA's legal/business/services model What makes you the expert on the BSA legal/business/service model? What insight do you have that the rest of us do not?

Boy Lead or Boy Run? My sons troop was a boy run troop. Meaning the SPL/PLC made all the decisions on what to do at meetings and campouts. They did not understand that Boy Lead means to lead the BSA program not make up a program as they want, meetings and campouts where filled with non scout activities. The scouts all thought that whatever they decided they wanted to do they where able to do it and they did for years. A few of us started asking about the BSA program why we where not following it, the answer we received was the boys made the decisions, they where going to do it, I think the paintball guns on campouts was when the CC finally figured out that boy lead is not boy run. Our outgoing SM finally got it, he has been able to change most of the philosophy around. Dec 10th the new SM starts we will see where it goes with him, my thoughts is that it will become adult lead completely, I hope I am wrong. Boy Lead is the SPL/PLC leading the BSA program. BUT I can see some older troops that have been boy lead correctly for years that can become a boy run troop. They have seen the correct way to run a troop since they joined the unit and watched strong leaders SPLs ASPL, TG all following the BSA program and they know what is expected from them and what they need to do while following the program. We where the troop Longhaul brought up, how do you change? Tell the boy leaders you job is to lead the BSA program, not lead a discussion on WFii vs Xbox.

Maybe if you would spend more time working within your unit we would have less scouts just give up because scouts it is boring, uncool or just decide that being an Eagle scout has lost its luster, like a scout that posts here. Which would raise the percent. Sorry I cannot help, nor do I want to, those think being an Eagle scout today is to easy, does not mean anything, you should vote with your feet. These are the units fault, when I say unit I mean YOU.

I watched the video. My son has done just about everything on the video and than some except for the wind surfing. This has all been done using the BSA program. He has canoed 50 miles on the Man Chain in Canada. He has climbed over 4 mountains in the high dessert at Double H and backpacked 50 miles. He climbed 2 mountains at Philmont and backpacked over 70 miles, got dragged along the a trail by a donkey. He has sailed a tall ship for a week in the Great Lakes. He has kayaked in the Ocean, sleep on an island for a week, went shark fishing, snorkeling. This year he is going backpacking/fly fishing in the Rockies and taking a 50 mile canoe float trip in Arkansas. Sound like some of you are not fulfilling the promise! Brian? OR maybe it is unit leaders worrying to much about national and it numbers and it polices instead of providing an exciting program. What does any of this have to do with a neckerchief? If you cannot provide exciting adventures use the easy excuses like the uniform, it is old fashioned, or dollars.

evmori My thought was if he was given community service to do, did he do it. Has he paid for his crime, if you will. I went back and reread the original thread, I do agree with this scout not receiving his eagle at this time. Because he has not finished his sentence which was 1 yr. with correct behavior and completing some counseling his record would be expunged. But I would have given him his BOR and gave him all of the information on how to contest the denial. I would have also told the SM to get a grip, you are out of the picture if the scout was at a BOR he had already done his SM conference and has been signed off of all requirements. To egg this SM on I most likely would have asked him how this kid slipped by you. I know I am a stinker.

Maybe If he was convicted of a felony, what was his sentence. Did he complete the sentence? How did he handle the questions about the felony during the BOR?

I was watching DA Bears last night and saw the same commercial. I was not impressed, I thought of a generic Rockwell painting. A knock off. (This message has been edited by dan)