CubsRgr8

And the same to the SPLs and the OA Troop Representative Shortridge, how does your elections committee get ahold of those names and addresses, phone numbers and emails? Does your Council track them somehow?

Thanks for all your responses. Here are my answers to some of your questions/comments. I wonder why the SM is deciding to deny this boy his Eagle? I would not put it that way. My observation is that the SM, the COR, the CC and the advancement chair are all on the same page: a Life scout should complete all Eagle requirements without any pro-active help from them. The Scout could have run for Patrol Leader or applied for one of the other positions at the end of August, but waited until now - literally the last possible moment - to approach the SM. When was his Life Board of Review? July 2011 and he has not held any POR since then. Why hasn't he stepped forward before now? He was working for a military academy nomination and just received it last week. Yeh have to be careful about going behind the back of the SM. I have no qualms about meeting with the Scout, answering his questions, and discussing the choices he has. My friendship with the scout and his parents transcends that with the SM and even the troop. I did meet with the scout and told him that, bottom line, he has to decide how important Eagle is to him. I went over his available choices and told him to discuss it with his parents and decide what he wants to do. We'll see what happens and I'll follow up with another post next week.

Tigers, definitely, because the Pack had a tradition of the TDL not being a parent. So, what DL job could be easier? There's a parent present with each TC and you assign a GO DO IT activity to each family. We did a lot of fun stuff by tapping into parents' connections.

My lodge's inductions advisors (present and past) insist on a election timeline of January - March because they don't want to track individuals past the fall Ordeal opportunity in September. Good? Bad? Can't say, but to me, the whole problem of getting troops to even respond, let alone schedule elections, goes more to the perception that OA is an optional part of Scouting. Until National makes it mandatory, and I'm not advocating for that, then you just contact each unit six times (letter to SM and CC, email to SM and CC, phone call to SM and CC) and leave it at that.

I received the following email today from a Scout in my troop. Dear Mr. ASM, I am trying to secure a leadership position for my requirement for Eagle. Do you have any ideas that can help me? I talked to Mr. SM and he said that there is nothing I can do until February, which will be too late, as I turn 18 on June 12th. Thank you, Scout As I see it, the Scout - my son's best friend - has five choices. 1) Accept that he missed the boat. 2) Ask his patrol leader to convene a patrol meeting ASAP, explain the situation, and request a patrol election, hoping he gets elected PL. 3) Go back to the SM and convince him to appoint the Scout to one of the secondary PORs (Chaplain's Aide, Webmaster) that are vacant. 4) Find a pack that wants a den chief, go back to the SM, and appeal to the Council when the SM turns him down (Den Chief isn't appropriate for an Eagle POR). 5) Transfer to a new troop whose SM will go with choice 3 or 4 above. Does anyone see any other choices out there? I'm meeting with him this evening and would greatly appreciate your feedback.

As much as I respect the way it used to be, OA is now "Scouting's National Honor Society" and that isn't going to be reformulated anytime soon. Better to focus on why so many scouts find it boring and respond with ideas to improve OA programming. What activities does your lodge offer that are popular with the youth? How does your lodge "show the Arrow" at Scouting events? Why are your Chapter meetings well attended?

It is a BIG mistake for anyone to serve as both the CC and a den leader. The CC most definitely needs to be able to get along with other adults. Sounds to me like the pack would be better off with him serving as the WDL, not the CC, and definitely NOT as both. All that is necessary is for the COR to have a short conversation with him and give him the good news that his talents are most needed as the WDL. If the COR is hands off, that's okay, you give the talk, but be sure the COR will back you up. If he walks, he walks. Don't let his personality burn you out.

My troop's PLC seems to be made up of scouts who are quite content to reuse last year's activity plan year after year after year. Here are two examples of their apparent unwillingness to "think outside the box". Last fall, they specifically passed up on the once-in-their-scout-lifetime opportunity to attend the Great Lakes Jamboree, held just 60 miles away. Then, just recently, they voted to forgo attending the District's Fall Camporee this month, which will feature activities that coincide with the requirements of the historic merit badges (another once-in-their-scout-lifetime opportunity). Both times the PLC chose instead go on a campout at one of the "regular" locations. I wouldn't raise the issue if attendance was great, or even good, but it isn't. At this past Tuesday night's troop meeting, preliminary attendance indicates 8 out of 50 scouts will attend the upcoming campout, and not even half of the members of the PLC! What do you recommend adult leadership do to jumpstart the PLC and get them out of this rut of repeating the past over and over - without stepping over the boy-led line?

Thanks for the info. Since I first posted, I finally discovered some info about MC on the Jambo website. Here's the link (scroll to the bottom): http://leadersupdate.bsajamboree.org/page/3/ Frankly, why would Jambo make MC one of the six activity segments when it only had the capacity to accomodate slightly more than half the scouts that attended? Every other segment could be earned (theoretically) by every single scout attending Jamboree. Grrr.

So, just what was the story with Mysterium Compass? My son and his friends were all fired up about earning all the segments. Then they were told MC had been added as a mandatory 6th segment, but it was reserved only for OA members (?!). Later, they were told it was open to all scouts, but both times they tried to attend, the lines were do-you-want-to-wait-3hrs-? long that they gave up. They just gave up on both MC and earning all the segments.

Thank you all very much for your responses. I'll print out the scoutmaster's email and bring it along with me when I pick him up from Jamboree next week. It'll serve as the basis for a great discussion about his plans for Eagle while we're travelling on the train back home. If HE decides that he was doing the POR properly, I'll advise him to contest this. On the other hand, if HE decides he wasn't, then that will the the end of the matter. Either way, I'll recommend that he meet with the scoutmaster as soon as possible. Thanks again! It's good for Mama Wolf and Papa Bear to step back, cool down, and let the Scout turn this into a learning opportunity for him.

My son was appointed Troop Webmaster ~ February 1. On July 22, he received - and I was copied on - this email from the Scoutmaster, apparently precipitated by a recent discussion with the adult who hosts the website. Since he left for Jamboree on July 21, he hasn't read the email, yet. Scout, I would strongly suggest you assume that once you have failed at one leadership role, you should attempt to do something else. We will give you just a months leadership credit for the early webmaster effort you invested. Regarding acting as webmaster in the future, Mr. Website doesnt need to chase you around to get you to do the responsibilities. Its more work for him than just doing the tasks himself. As a Life Scout, I would not be positive about you serving in this role again. ... We should discuss this further the next time you show up at a Troop Meeting. Remember, we have been meeting all summer? Mr. Scoutmaster I concede the point that my son did not perform his POR very well, but being fired just short of six months? without a "performance review" and corrective action plan? and being given one month's credit towards his POR? Both the Scoutmaster and website adult know my son started working at a Cub Scout camp with one day off per week on June 14 until one day before he left for Jamboree - except for one week of troop summer camp. Furthermore, his performance as Troop Webmaster did not come up during the week of summer camp (I know this because I was there). Needless to say, Mama Wolf and Papa Bear are not happy. Before we say or do anything, we'd appreciate your advice.

It is proven that atheists are more intelligent than theists. Please provide a scientific citation for this statement, and while you're at it, please explain how insulting people supports your argument that BSA should be open to atheists. Is thinking for yourself really that bad? Thinking for yourself is great, and that's what BSA members have done, concluding that there is value in affirming the existence of God, while teaching respect forpeople's differing beliefs, including the beliefs of atheists and agnostics. Why don't you let children decide for their own? I won't let a4 year child decide she's knows when it's safe to cross the street or get in a stranger's car. I won't let a 8 year old child decide he should be allowed to purchase or consume cigarettes, booze, or pills. I won't let a 12 decide she's ready to drive a car or engage in sexual activity. I won't let a 16 year old childdecide he's ready to enlist in the military or get a tattoo. Will you let your children decide for their own, or will you teach them the values that you consider important, including your views on the existence of God? ...why do YOU believe in god when there is no proof for it? I see "proof" of God in all of creation. What do you see? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

My experience in Cub Scouts (as a parent, a den leader, a Cubmaster and a committee chair over 6 years) was that the area of Duty To God was handled completely by the Cub Scout's parents. To quote from the Wolf Handbook: DUTY TO GOD Complete the Character Connection for Faith *Know. What is "faith"? With your family, discuss some people who have shown their faith - who have shown an inner strength based on their trust in a higher power or cause. Discuss the good qualities of these people. *Commit. Discuss these questions with your family: What problems did these faithful people overcome to follow or practice their beliefs? What challenges might you face in doing your duty to God? Who can help you with these challenges? *Practice. Practice your faith while doing the requirements for "Duty to God." Talk with your family about what they believe is their duty to God. Give two ideas on how you can practice or demonstrate your religious beliefs. Choose one and do it. Find out how you can help your church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or religious fellowship. Is your atheism comfortable with having this kind of conversation with your son? Is your atheism comfortable with having your son pledge to do his Duty To God whenever the Scout Promise is recited? Is your atheism comfortable with allowing your son to be influenced by the example of adult leaders who accept Duty To God as a prerequisite to serving as adult leaders? Is your atheism comfortable with the possibility that your son may, as a direct result of participating in Scouts,come to accept the premise of a higher power, more commonly referred to as God? If "yes", then allow your son to continue in Scouts as long as it interests him. If "no", then I suggest you find another youth organization (sports, 4H, etc.) which is popular with the kids he knows in school.

Much to my surprise, I didn't see these listed on the Jamboree website as being offered at the MB Midway.

Anyone seeing the new POR (Webmaster, LNT) in their Scout Shop, yet?

Beavah, I wonder if coherent patrols are a common factor in those troops you observe with active HS youth. By coherent, I mean patrols that were formed early in a scout's association with a troop and kept its membership as the scouts grew older. I rarely see anything like that around here. It seems to me that true BSA compliant patrols are truly the least properly utilized method of scouting.

Do not sacrifice a troop (or even one other scout) to try and save one boy! You cannot save him, the troop cannot save him, only he can affect the behavorial transformation necessary. Have an immediate Scoutmaster Conference with him and do what scoutldr says: tell him, word for word, what you wrote in this forum. Then, inform the young man that the next incident at a troop event will result in permanent removal from the troop. Do not give him "three stikes" or "one more chance". Tell him the only improvement plan he needs for follow for scout spirit is the Oath and Law, and review them with him, reading directly from his scout handbook,including the explantion sections(it might be the very first time he's ever read them). Since serving in a POR requires three months, tell him you'll be willing to sign-off on scout spirit three months from today, IF he is stll a member of the troop. End of discussion. Of course, make sure you have the CC and COR on page with this up front, before the Scoutmaster Conference. Harsh? Yes, but sometimes a young man needs a pan of cold water thrown in his face to get his attention. PS Unless you have personally observed his inappropriate behaviors outside of the troop, I would not include those allegations in the discussion. (This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

"With just a few months to go in Cub Scouts for the boy, I am not going to worry about getting an update." Then I sure hope you don't have any more activities off-site from your regular pack meeting and/or webelos den meeting locations. Pack and Den leadership are putting the Chartering Organization and themselves - personally - at risk if there is not a current medical form on file, as I'm pretty darn sure possession is a BSA liability insurance requirement. Evasive mom (and that's how she comes across in your post) can provide it in a sealed envelope, to only be opened in case of an emergency, but she is supposed to provide one. Back to your original question, YES! Brief the scoutmaster of the troop he chooses, but not until after he actually tenders an application (and a current health form).

The committee chair brings along his two goldens to summer camp. We do our own, plus they go home with his wife to the motel every night. They definitely are a good influence on the boys.

Look on the bright side - at least a stamp is being issued! Every year there are thousands of suggestions, and only a few dozen are issued per year.

How could anyone possibly have a problem with another parent wanting to be involved as well? You'd be surprised how quickly some people's noses get bent out of joint. That said, I think your solution, citing two deep coverage, should smooth the waters. Perhaps this other mom's enthusiasm will allow her to transition into den leader next year.

Paging through Scouting Magazine and saw a sidebar that there are two new PORs. When are they available to the scouts?(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

MamaCM, Let's see if I have this right. 1) The CO is planning to charter a troop with this year's 5th grade members of the pack (Webelos 2) when they cross over in the spring. This is a good thing, especially if there are no other troops in your town. 2) The most recent CM has stepped down, is apparently going to serve as the W2 den leader, and wants the W2 den to do their own thing. Not so good, as W2 are still part of the pack and by staying active in the pack, they inspire the younger boys. Mention this to the most recent CM and try to persuade him to at least attend the pack meetings, where they could serve as assistants to the new CM in running the show and maintaining order. 3) The most recent CM wants to take a chunk of money and camping gear with them to help the new troop launch. Not so bad, as troops need both to succeed. I suggest a meeting with the COR, the most recent CM, yourself and the actual DE with the request that the COR outline the basic scouting plan and approve of these money and gear decisions, just for the record. So, as you've learned and revealed to us more about the situation, it's become less troubling, at least to me. As I was taught a long time ago, put the best construction on everything.

I suggest that the leaders meet before Monday's meeting and hash out all aspects of this issue. It comes across to me as a failure by leaders to properly schedule, promote, and explain this activity. Best to have the leadership ducks in a row before meeting with the youth AND it's very important not to turn Monday's meeting into a "blame the youth" session.