CubsRgr8

Not to throw water (or kerosene) on the campfire BUT way back in '74-75 I was in an Explorer Post (my only exposure to BSA prior to becoming a Cubmaster in '00) that was career based (law), coed, not uniformed, and no Scout oath or any other scouting regalia. So, I don't understand FOG's confusion and comment about exploring being for older boy scouts.

If the new Webelos book is as good as the new Wolf and Bear books, I'm switching! I picked up copies of the new Wolf and Bear books (Webelos still on back-order) for our planning meeting last night and WOW! I really like how they directly incorporate Character Connections into various requirements. I've already called around and found the new Webelos book at a neighboring council's scout shop, so I'll let you know tomorrow what I think.

Merlyn, BSA uses the singular noun, God, because it is the word most commonly used word in American culture to identify the divine. This usage and understanding is derived from America's strong Judeo-Christian heritage. You cannot logically conclude that BSA therefore excludes polytheists from membership. Twocubdad, I would never apply the same standards to a 12 year old youth that I would apply to a 22 year old adult. I would apply those standards only to a 16 or 17 year old youth who was emotionally and intellectually mature enough to be considered an adult.

Merlyn, BSA does not require belief in a monotheistic God, just belief in God. Why would you conclude that polytheists should be kicked out? NJCubscouter, I'd say religious means promoting religion, either specifically or generally. My dictionary also gives reverent as a synonym for religious. On those grounds, I agree with Judge Jones that BSA is a religious organization, but not with his ruling. littlebillie, I presume that you're okay with BSA requiring leaders to accept belief in God, since you didn't object. But what about a youth who doesn't have belief? There's two parts to my response. First, a youth's ability to deny or confirm the existence of God just isn't there until he reaches a certain maturity. A 12 year old scout telling me "God does (not) exist" is no different than the same youth saying "I am (not) a Socialist". Which is the whole point of BSA! It exists, and we leaders strive, to instill in youth the values of the Scout Oath and Law, precisely at the age when youth are forming the core value system they will take with them through their life journey! Second, when that youth is emotionally and intellectually mature enough to make his definitive public statement on the existence of God, he is also mature enough to understand that there are consequences. Furthermore, I maintain that if said scout denies the existence of God, he should not remain in BSA because he is no longer an appropriate role model for younger scouts.

Reminder #1: If we have faith () that the press is accurately reporting the judge's reasoning behind his ruling, it was the city's preferential treatment of a religious organization that is the issue at hand not BSA's membership requirements. Reminder #2: BSA's membership requirements are both legal and constitutionally protected. Period. That includes requiring scouters and scouts of age to profess a belief in God. I remain puzzled by littlebillie and others within scouting who would open the doors to atheists. Why does BSA exist? The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. These values include belief in God. There's nothing vague or imprecise about it. As leaders, we agree to serve as role models, doing our best to live out these values in our own lives while using the BSA program to teach them to scouts. Leaders need to be committed to teaching all of these values, not just some.

I don't see this decision as punishment. The PLC's decision recognizes a need within the troop and establishes a process to meet that need within the scouting context. It's no different than the PLC deciding that a scout must have the canoeing merit badge before going on the three day canoe camping trip. It doesn't violate GSS (quite the contrary!) or BSA advancement policy in any way. I say troopmom's troop has some very savvy scouts in its PLC. Bravo!(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

Bob White, all I can say is mea culpa! There is no doubt that this scout failed to actively provide leadership in his position. As a committee member, and the chair of his BOR, I should never have agreed to approve his rank on the basis of promised improvement in the future. I promise to find and review my copy of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Manual. Then I will follow up with the scoutmaster. Thanks to all for their input!

Ok, so maybe I'm a grumpy old man, but at least I'll get to vent. Chaired a Life BOR a couple of weeks ago. The scout in question is one of two quartermasters for the troop. When asked about his performance as quartermaster (his required position of responsibility), he responded that he felt he had done "only a marginal job" (his words). I was glad to hear him admit it, because I agreed with him. Impressed with his honesty, I joined in with the other BOR members and approved his rank. Fast forward to last night. It's tent cleaning and folding time - a big task given that over 30 tents went to summer camp - the ultimate quartermaster job, no? Guess who wasn't there? You got it - new Mr. Life. Also missing were most of the older scouts, leaving the grunt work to the first and second years. Was I ever peeved! I feel personally let down by this scout because he said he would do a better job for the remainder of his term (through August). It doesn't really matter to me what was his excuse, he didn't follow through on something I felt he had promised me and the BOR he would do.

When it comes to leadership styles in scouting, there sure seems to be an awful lot of directing, a little delegating, and not very much coaching or supporting. Is the teaching of these leadership styles in SM and WB an addition that only appeared in the most current versions? Is the teaching of these leadership styles included in JLT?

Take a look at this UK website: http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/activity/scouts/support/ppsm0698.htm. The planning process it describes sounds like it would keep things moving along, even with younger scouts.

Come up to Wisconsin and cool down fast! It's averaging 15 degrees cooler this summer than last - highs in the 70s more often than not. Tomorrow I leave for scout camp near the Michigan border and believe you me, I'm bringing a couple of sweatshirts and maybe even some long underwear !

I confess to having been a grouser in the past but realize now that my disaffection was due to not understanding the professional's role. Coupled with your earlier experiences as a scout, you bring a unique and welcome POV to this forum and I, for one, hope you stick around for a long, long time!

According to my friendly scout shop manager, the CD item number is 32424 and is sold in bulk packs of 100 to Councils/Districts. We gave away about a dozen at our spring rally to any 1-3 grade boy who filled out a coupon. It's definitely not for 4-5 grade boys, as it features the Tiger, Wolf & Bear mascots. I plan on having them available again at the school picnic, which is three weeks before the School Night session. The laptop slide-show sounds very cool and I know just who to ask.

Tipping scouts who are den chiefs volunteering at day camp? No way! I can't cite chapter and verse, but I sure think it's not considered volunteering (aka service) if there is any financial renumeration.

The first flaw I see is conceptual. At any given time, 3/4 of the scouts at summer camp will have an SPL they had no part in choosing, which is counter to the concept of boy led troops. The second flaw I see is functional. It's going to be hard for each SPL to be function effectively, because every scout will know it's only for two days. Just look at SM406's experience in an earlier post. Finally, the fact that the PLC made a decision doesn't make it correct. The PLC decison to have a rotating SPL is - IMHO - contrary to how the BSA program should be implemented and therefore, incorrect, requiring guidance from the SM and/or committee.

Anybody out there have experience with the BSA wood carving slide kits? Are they appropriate for Webelos (AFTER they earn their Whitlin' Chit)? Are some "easier" than others? I'm looking for something fun for my den to work on over the summer, but nothing too challenging. Thanks in advance.

Laurie, is it possible that the 13 year old boy is a special needs kid? If so, he is allowed to remain at the skill-level appropriate for his mental abilities and the age/grade restrictions are waived. Check with your DE for guidance if thisis the case. If not, and since you mention that he is not a behavior problem, he should register as a boy scout with a troop. If the scoutmaster and the den leader are willing, he could be appointed as a den chief. This is a leadership position in a troop where a scout is assigned to work with a den and its leaders. He would then be able to continue attending the den meetings with his younger (problem) friend. I see this option as a very positive outcome for everybody. Please let us know how this resolves, we're all pulling for you!

June - attend Scouting the Zoo, a council sponsered camporee on at the Milwaukee County Zoo. July - day and/or resident camp. August - Pack/Troop picnic with simple games.

Today's question is: have you ever sat on a BOR that did not confirm a scout's rank advancement? I have not (after several dozen BORs) and am wondering what circumstances would exist to prompt a BOR to make such a decision. Hence, I'm looking for "BOR War Stories".(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

In another post, I believe Matua identified himself as the IH and SM for the troop in question. As the IH of an independent 501C organization set up when the local school would no longer charter scouting, it would be up to him to approve or disapprove this person's inclusion on the charter as a registered leader. Unless the CO has written bylaws that specify leader requirements, there's nothing these inactive parents can do, expect leave. After all your hard work, Mautua, are you prepared for this?

Thanks for confirming my opinion - that I really, REALLY, want to take this training. BW, I especially appreciate knowing why it seemed to disappear from the training schedule. I will start bugging the Council training committee on a regular basis to offer the course this fall, but I'll also check with the other neighboring councils just in case.

My council does not offer this course anymore. I'm told to sign up for Outdoor Leader Skills and that the instructor will differentiate for us Webelos Den Leaders. Yet, I find many other councils still offering the course when I do an internet search. My experience last fall with Cub Scout Leader Non-specific Training causes my faith in the infallibility of council to quaver. What's the word out there? Find OWL and take it cause it's worth the effort. OR Stop being a Doubting Thomas - your council (and their instructors) know what they're doing.

In my neck of the woods, you sign your kid up for winter swimming in August, for late spring baseball in January, for summer rec department activities in March, and for fall soccer in May. So, to me, it makes perfect sense to have a Tiger round-up in spring, but ONLY if your council provides some summer camp opportunites for a new Tiger and his partner. Summer camp is the most eagerly anticipated Cub Scouting activity I know of, especially for the Tigers, Wolves and Bears. It beats the pants off of advancement, pack meetings, anything else that comes to mind. There is something exhilerating about going to Cub Scout Camp that I don't see in the boys when we're talking about going to a soccer skills clinic or swim lessons. Sounds to me like the CM who stood up at jbroganjr's RT just didn't want to bother with summer activities, period (I bet if you check, his pack hibernates in the summer). All that does is reinforce that Cub Scouting is a secondary activity. I think one of our big jobs as leaders to to promote the concept that Cub Scouting is a primary activity. Spring recruiting helps promote that concept by putting Cub Scouting front and center at a time when families are open to new recreational activites.

Newbs, I just finished my tenure as a Bear den leader and here's a few personal experience suggestions. 1. Recruit an assistant den leader NOW, not next week, not when school lets out and certainly NOT next fall. While I had several parents who took turns with den meetings, I realize now that having a consistent partner would have been far superior. 2. Have den meetings and outings during the summer, at whatever frequency you feel would work. A den trip to Cub Scout Day Camp or a den outing on a really hot summer day/evening to the air conditioned bowling alley will help keep the den together and the boys enthusiastic. 3. Earn a CS Sports & Academics beltloop every month. Since it takes a while to earn their first red bead, this allows every boy to be recognized at every pack meeting. 4. Plan out your entire year, working with your assistant den leader (see #1 above). Then share it with all your families right away. Yes, plans change, but it really is best to be the first activity written on the family calendar. 5. Meet weekly at a consistent time. I have the luxury of a job that allows me to set my hours, so the den met right after school, every Monday. I had very good attendance as 9/10 boys would come straight from school to the den meeting. There were no conflicts with soccer, basketball, baseball, etc., because their practices were scheduled later in the day. I really got to know the boys. I still had my evenings for my family. 6. Remember to have fun. Do things that you like to do (hiking, crafts, whatever) and the boys will pick up on your enthusiasm. Good luck to you and thanks for jumping in to serve these boys!

I suggest you skip the canoes and fish from shore or the dock, but make sure there there's at least one Safe Swim trained adult present. OneHour - did the presence of the pool's lifeguards fulfill the Safe Swim requirement? Or did you have additional Pack adults present?