Cubmaster Randy

Excellent advice from John We formed a new troop last March. Originally we had 5, now we are at 7 ....all weblelosII crossovers I would add *Start Early...Around here, most webelosII know which troop they are going to by the end of December. We had our open house in January. Several scouts and parents I spoke with would have been interested, but had already committed to other troops *Equipment and Finances- Can you borrow equipment or will you need to purchase. How are you going to do this? *Have a vision about the troop- share it with the other adults on the committee and with the ASM(s). Make sure everyone is on board. *Have a plan. Potential scouts and their parents are going to ask questions. Get a troop policy maual togther. You can borrow one from another troop and modify it Get the boys outdoors. camping hiking, summer camp. Let the boys lead from the beginning. In the beginning you need to be more directive, but after a while they will begin to understand. Otherwise you may end up with a Web III patrol * Get everyone trained and involved... Scouts too I've found that many of the cubs and parents inititially did not understand the boy scout program and what is different. and what they needed to do to support the troop *Get older scouts involved. If you can't get any older scouts to join, check with other troops, OA, or perhaps a local crew. They could send over guest instructors to come in and teach T-FC skills during skills instruction time *Talk with other SM's. Observe their troop meetings get ideas.

What I heard you say was that the CM should be the pack trainer. What I was trying to say was that the Cubmaster should not be the Pack Trainer because it is an administrative/support position.The Pack trainer does has a specific spot on the organization chart. I am not a fan of a CM or CC having multiple jobs within a unit In reality, most packs currently don't have pack trainers and the repsonsibility falls on the CM or CC, but that could be a seperate thread. pack org chart http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca I took the job descrition from the website. I do agree that the cubmaster needs to be involved in the training of the den leaders. The job description says guide and support the den leaders. That could mean a bunch of things. it could mean teach, (Guide is part of EDGE). It could be take them to roundtable or have them sign up for training. The pack trainer covers the entire pack leadership, not just the den leaders I don't think we necessarily disagree, we are just saying it in a different way BTW There is a Pack Trainer Award. It is the newest recognition available to Cub Scout leaders who complete specific training, tenure, and performance requirements. The award recognizes the important role the pack trainer performs in mentoring new adult leaders and families in their pack. Similar to other Cub Scout leader recognition awards, it is presented by the local council and is represented on the uniform by a square knot insignia worn above the left shirt pocket. Requirements include serving two years as a registered pack trainer, completing specific training (including Fast Start, New Leader Essentials, and Youth Protection Training), and achieving designated levels of performance involving delivering, planning, and promoting training to pack leadership. (Scouters registered as pack trainers must use Sept. 1, 2006, as the start date for tenure and performance requirements.) Information on their requirements is available at http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-595. (This message has been edited by Cubmaster Randy)

I disagree that the Cubmaster should be the Pack Trainer. That is a separate position. However, (from the job description of CM) he should Guide and support den leaders and see that they receive the required training for their positions The role of the Pack Trainer The pack trainer is responsible for: Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders. (See Chapter 10 of the Cub Scout Leader Book, "Den and Pack Management.") Training each new leader and pack committee member for his or her specific position, using material provided by the BSA. Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings. Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council. Encouraging pack leaders to attend ongoing training, such as roundtable, pow wow or University of Scouting, outdoor training, Youth Protection training, and Wood Badge. Remaining current with training material and program updates. Keeping track of pack training records. The goal of the pack trainer is to have 100 percent of the pack leadership trained in their position responsibilities. New leaders and adult family members should receive orientation within one week of joining the pack, and leaders should receive position-specific training within 30 days

Who makes up the event budget- camp director,activities chair,and/or budget director with input from the people running the program areas. Submitted to DE for aprroval from council. Don't forget the 20% contigency. The actvities chair should have gone to committee training, that is covered in committee training how do they even know how to formulate one? Honestly, Its not to hard to come up with a budget. We all do budgets of some sort for work,and home.Just ask the person who did it last year to offer any gudiance and lessons learned). Who deals with council in getting advance checks issued for materials and services? The DE. Invoices are given to him for processing. Direct payments are made to the vendor whenever possible I would hope the units that are running these camporee aren't spending their own money up front. Some do. Depending on what is being bought and how much, some units pay up front if it runs over budget, who eats the costs? I would stress that No expenditures are authorized unless approved ahead of time. Sure sometimes things cost more, but the unit needs to be upfront about it. We normally budget for a 30% contingency fee. The council only wants 20% and that gives us some degree of latitude What contacts do they have for ordering or getting hold of a venue, patches, portajohns, HQ tent and supplies, signs, fliers, etc? How do they know they are getting the best prices? Our troops are pretty resourceful. Somebody did it last year, right? There is also the yellow pages You would have to admit that running a troop is very different from running a camporee. Wouldn't a person with experience in organizing a district event do a better job at it and not make the same mistakes twice? Wouldn't the district program benifit from this experience? Sure Someone from the district needs to be involved, but unless you bring in new people in the process, you are always going to be using the usual suspects.

We used to do it that way, but in the past 3 years, We have modified that approach With 14++ troops, not every scout troop would not get an opportunity to host within a scouts tenure. (not all want to), but doing it this way, we can involve all the troops, thus giving them the opportunity for ownership and particiaption. The smaller troops can now volunteer to help and we don't have use the usual suspects. The district committee sets the date. The camporee committee sets the location and theme. The DE works with the camporee commitee members on items such as finance and if we are using our local scout camp, he books the space We ask that each Troop should provide a Scout as a representative to the Camporee planning committee, with an adult leader to assist. Troops may be asked to provide logistical support of materials and work effort to help with the core Program Activities and the Troops are requested to plan on attending Camporee as part of their major activities plans. Leadership and Staffing The Camporee Camp Director (Camp SM) is a volunteer and is approved by the District Progrma Committee. (I've had one beaders use this as a ticket item for the last two years) The camp SPL is appointed by the Camp SM and then the camp SPL picks his assistants from the scout reps. They oversee those reps The Camp Director is supported by a volunteer staff in various critical areas including: Program Development Health and Safety Logistics Coordination Communications Interfaith service Registration Finance and Accounting Recognition and Awards Facilities Management

We keep the same dates year to year for district events. It makes it simpler for the units to plan their calendars. Occasionally their is an issue with a date. (This year we had to move our Webelos Woods due to Palm Sunday), but for the most part the units know the schedule well ahead of time as We have our calendar posted 18 months ahead. Does council have their dates set that early? The scout calendars are filled up between, unit, district and council events. You could theoretically do a scouting event every weekend.(sometimes 2) When that happens, you see what you want to do and make a choice what to do We try and not put district events on council events, but it happens sometimes. We are forutnate to be in a council that runs 3 wood badge courses a year, so if you miss one course, you can always attend another. For example, I was looking at our calendar today at atlantabsa.org. There is a weekend next ocotber where there will be the second weekend of WB, a cub world activity and a scoutreach event all at Bert Adams. Lots of activity. Bet there will be some leaders who haveto make some choices. I am totally in favor of Woodbadge, but to cancel an event for the Boys, so a few leaders (who may or may not be necessary to attend) is absurb

off topic from the main topic, but replying to the comment about the brownie program My daughter is in brownies. I am not sure what you mean that brownies don't have a pinewood derby. Her service unit has an annual "powder Puff Derby (pinewood derby) They have a resident camp where they can do archery. They don't shoot BB's,, but they even got the chance to go canoeing at day camp this year. The implimentation of the program at the unit, district (service unit) or council level will determine if the program is "lame". Not the program itself

Are you 100% sure she was a girl? Sometimes Cubs will let their hair grow out and at that age it is sometimes hard to distinguish

Check with both Scoutmasters if they have any boys that would like to be den Chiefs. See which have been trained as Den Chiefs. See which are available to meet durning the times the den meets. Have the den leaders meet and Interview them. A good Den Chief will most likely be a good recruiter for his troop Typically a Den Chief will work with one den, although I have seen instances of the him taking on a Pack focus

Interesting, On our course , We are told to wear the uniform that shows what program we are primarily registered in. The insignia and loops are approriate to the program we are registrered as. The Cub Leaders wear blue loops, Boy scout leaders wear red loops, etc. We do wear den chief cords the first morning and We have name tags with the patch of the position we are modeling that is updated during the course Wearing green loops on a khaki or yellow shirt? That would be against uniforming guidelines and we would not be allowed to do that

We have the minister at their church/religious organziation present the medal at the church and we present the purple square knot at the pack meeting. I usally say something like this. Occasionally i might involve a purple candle. Fire is good We are very proud of ___________. He has worked with both his family and his religious advisor to learn more about his religious faith and his "Duty to God." After much hard work and personal growth, he has received the right to wear the religious emblem of his faith on his Scout uniform and was presented with a medal by his religious advisor ___ weeks ago. ___________, like all Scouts who have received a religious award, he may now wear Scouting's universal religious award square knot on his Scout uniform and may continue to wear it as an Boy Scout or Adult later in his life. We now take great pleasure in presenting the religious emblem square knot to his parent(s) (or guardian(s)) in recognition of the role they have played in his religious growth. Mr. and Mrs. ___________, will you present your son with the religious emblem square knot? (Award is presented by Awards Chairman or Cubmaster) ___________, we know you will wear this square knot centered over your left pocket with pride. Congratulations on your accomplishment. You have lived the Cub Scout Oath and the Cub Scout promise well. You may return to your seats. If you are interested in learning more about the religious award program, please contact __________(usually it is me, but it could be a position on your committee As for what the pastor might say, he could talk about ______ and what he has done. He might even plug the BSA and what a wonderful organization it is

A suggestion When nominating someone for the district award of merit,I would not worry so much about what awards and when they were earned. That information can be found out later. If they truly are deserving, someone on the committee will know them and can help fill in the blanks or you could enlist the help of a spouse or someone in their unit. Sometimes you have to be creative in how you gather information

I think this thread is going sideways, but to go back to Brians original question At the end of the day, the district Award of merit committee needs to look at all of the nominees and determine who in their best judgement to see if someone deserves the award. *Has he/she rendered service of an outstanding nature at the district level.. Yes, but what constitutes district level service can be debated, as districts are the operating arm of the council and the units are the district, but I think they should look at their involvement. Are they a UC, are they on the district committee in some form, have they run district activities, have they done FOS, SNS, or any other district function for a period of time.Have they provided service of an outstanding nature to a group of youth over a period of time. If someone served as council camping chair as a delegate of the dsitrict, imho, they should be considered I once heard of a district where some people were trying to nominate the IH of a Charter org. His church sponsors eight units and is very supportive of scouting providing space for district training and sponsoring religious award classes for the district. Does he meet the criteria? He's a registered scouter, makes a difference in the lives of the youth, both in and out of scouting, but does he meet the district level criteria that is being discussed.. I think he would, others might disagree *Has he/she rendered outstanding service beyond the expectations of that Scouting position... Have they given a lot more than that "hour a week "(lol). Ideally this would be someone who has been there consistently, not someone who is a "one hit wonder" Someone metntioned a "walker" at day camp, Hopefully we can raise the bar for D.A.M. a bit higher than that. A district does not need to present all of the awards it is entitled to. If everyone possible has earned the award, that district needs to look to recruiting some new blood, IMO I can't give a specific time period (maybe 5 years, maybe a little less depending what they have done in that time. Maybe more. You need to look at their service.) *Has the nominee's attitude toward and cooperation with the district and/or council is to be taken into consideration... Do they particpate in dsitrict and council activities?. We all know unit scouters who would not give the time of day to a person requesting help on a district event, but would bend over backwards to help a their unit..IMHO, No they would not qualify. They have other awards for that. (This message has been edited by Cubmaster Randy)

In our district, in addition to the general call for nominations, we ask each of the units turn in a nomination form at recharter for someone that they feel should recieve the award. These then go to the selection committee where they are reviewed. They look at what they have done, how long they have been involved and other criteria. Normally, you have to have served at least 5 years, but that is not a written requirment It says on the nomination form, not to let the person know you are nominating them. This year we had at least 17 different names on the nominations. We only can award 3. Although it is for district service, I would agree that a CC or SM who had been involved for many years and have touched the lives of the many youth of their unit, especially if the unit is involved in all of the district activites, could be considered because they are the district too. But that is mostly service above the normal calling for a CC or SM, maybe I think they look at the awards that the nominees have earned, most have turned in their paperwork, but that does not add up to who has more I am not sure if I would include Eagle, as that technically is an award they earned as a youth. Woodbadge doens't hurt, but that to me would be more of what you get out of Woodbadge That being Woodbadge is just a beginning

When we have a pack event, a subcommittee plans it. We try and involve a parent from each den level, so when a group crosses over, it does not take the entire planning hsitory with it. They report what they are doing/done to the Pack Committee. They get the necessary information from the Pack Committee and other sources. For example, the person running the campout will have gone to BALOO where they would have been instructed on how to take the pack camping. Our district roundtable offers a breakout once a year on a particular event such as B&G or pinewood. I've seen dens in other packs do it, but they normally pair a tiger den with a webelos den, so the older den can pass on it's knowldege. We have "parent meetings" several times a year. I am not referring to the monthly Pack Leaders or Committee meetings which all parents are invited (most don't attend, but a meeting during a Pack meeting when all the parents should be there anyway. Myself and a couple of other leaders would take the boys for an activity, so the CC can discuss items with the parents. Of course the annual program planning meeting where the coming years activites are discussed, everyone is invited too Our yearly program involves a fall campout, spring campout, a big trip (Yorktown Ship, Lost Sea, overnnight at the zoo, etc. Next year they want to travel to Washington DC) We also do the pinewood derby, bowling party, promote summer day camp, local scout expo, Braves games, family picnic, etc.. We don't do white water rafting or paintball, (sorry had to throw that in...lol) Our pack is a success because the boys have fun. Most of the time, we have to twist a few parents arms to get them to contribute, but after they help out once, we can count on them to help again Have some fun events, Have them earn awards, and other recognitions. Get them and their parents excited about the program. They will become the best recruiters for building the Pack

When we have a pack event, a subcommittee plans it. We try and involve a parent from each den level, so when a group crosses over, it does not take the entire planning hsitory with it. They report what they are doing/done to the Pack Committee. They get the necessary information from the Pack Committee and other sources. For example, the person running the campout will have gone to BALOO where they would have been instructed on how to take the pack camping. Our district roundtable offers a breakout once a year on a particular event such as B&G or pinewood. I've seen dens in other packs do it, but they normally pair a tiger den with a webelos den, so the older den can pass on it's knowldege. We have "parent meetings" several times a year. I am not referring to the monthly Pack Leaders or Committee meetings which all parents are invited (most don't attend, but a meeting during a Pack meeting when all the parents should be there anyway. Myself and a couple of other leaders would take the boys for an activity, so the CC can discuss items with the parents. Of course the annual program planning meeting where the coming years activites are discussed, everyone is invited too Our yearly program involves a fall campout, spring campout, a big trip (Yorktown Ship, Lost Sea, overnnight at the zoo, etc. Next year they want to travel to Washington DC) We also do the pinewood derby, bowling party, promote summer day camp, local scout expo, Braves games, family picnic, etc.. We don't do white water rafting or paintball, (sorry had to throw that in...lol) Our pack is a success because the boys have fun. Most of the time, we have to twist a few parents arms to get them to contribute, but after they help out once, we can count on them to help again Have some fun events, Have them earn awards, and other recognitions. Get them and their parents excited about the program. They will become the best recruiters for building the Pack

Long haul did you recieve the manual?

With a smaller troop you can offer a more personalized expreience. You won't become a number. Too me that could be used as a selling point

Long Haul and cb2boys I've tried pm'ing both of you and I have checked my bulk folder looking for indirectly sent emails. nothing found. I have been having problems with other features of scouter.com, but I am not complaining I would post my email address here, but I get a lot of spam from spambots already looking at our district website. So if you want to look at our district website www.miltonbsa.org and look under the yellow pages for either P2143 or T2143, my contact information is there. YIS Randy

Some 30+ years ago, I was a Cub scout. I did well the first year, bobcat wolf and about 10 arrow points. After that, i can't say I enjoyed it as much. and no we did not do a lot of cutting and pasting. We prepared our activites for the upcoming pack meetings, worked on our badges and went on field trips. Although I did not earn bear or AOL, but I stuck with it(my mom was one of the den mothers and most of my friends were in it. My dad is an Eagle, so I sorta thought that was what were supposed to do. They never asked if I wanted not to be in it..lol We did not camp as a pack,we had pinewood derbies, weekly den meetings and b&g. Our family camped all the time. 5th grade came and we entered middle school. My brother and I got a phone call inviting us to join the troop. We went. We walked over to the school picking up some friends along the way. Not everyone from our den decided to go. I remember being upset that they did not want to be part of the group going to Boy Scouts. To me it was just a natural progression, just as going from grade school to middle school. That first night, met with the scoutmaster, got into patrols, got an application to take home and have my parents sign. I really enjoyed Boy Scouts. We did cool things, went camping, played a lot of games. Evntually I became patrol leader, sPL, elected into OA, philmont, international jamboree etc. eventually i earned my eagle. I had found my niche in Boy Scouts The two programs are separate, and appearantly always have been, There are ten purpose of cub scouting. The tenth is preperation for boy scouts. If you do the first 9, the tenth should fall into place FACTS as i understand them Not all Cub Scouts will become Boy Scouts Not all Boy Scouts will have been Cub Scouts, yet most will have been Not everyone who excels at cubs will enjoy Boy Scouts or vice versa Boys today are way more scheduled than we were back then. Scouts now compete for time with more organized sports leagues, band practices, and a multitude of other activites. My second grader has more homework than I did in middle school! My wife and I had a conversation about a year a go. She was telling me she did not think our son did not want to join BS. I convinced her that it was important for his development. I spoke with my son. Told him about how boy scouts was different He's excited about Boy Scouts now.I think he was just tired of Cub Scouts. His den leaders were not doing what they needed to be doing. They had a den of 13 webelos.I made suggestions, I offered to take half the den. My Offers and suggestions were dismissed as not necessary. No reason to change, i was told by DL and some of the parents 9 of the 13 are crossing over, 5 are coming with me to start a new troop. IMHO, most are not ready to join BS. Thats OK, We can mentor them We had our first meeting this week. We have older scouts coming in from a nearby troop to serve as instructors and troop guides. We have a campout scheduled in 2 weeks. Going to summer camp this summer My vision includes a boy led from the start. This is going to be fun What can we do? *engage more interaction between the webelos and boy scouts. Have the boys come in and work with them on the outdoor activitty badges. Get the boys excited about becoming Boy Scouts. I would focus less convincing them to cross over and more on the cool stuff they will be doing when they actually do. *Have the troops supply trained den chiefs, they are excellent recruiting tools (if they are good with younger kids, a disaster if not) *Attempt to make transtion as smooth as possible.. This probably what needs the most work. Work with the parents on the differences between the programs. Have them do faststart and/or NLE, they may get the picture.

Long Haul No pm's recieved. I'll try you

Yes, talk with your DC. Get someone else assigned to your unit. Maybe they can reassign her to one of the other units. UC's should be able to work with the units that they serve. From what you have written, this does not seem possible at this time.

cb2boys PM me your email address and I will be happy to send it to you

Where did an age requirment come up? I thought the requirments were 1st class, the nights of camping, inluding a week of long term and a SM rec. i took my ordeal at summer camp between the 7th and 8th grades. I got involved in my chapter and when I went to High School, I knew a lot more kids from other troops.

I only have the numbers from last crossover(2006), but I do know that the number of Webelos class this year is larger than last year. Last years numbers from our district was over 90% retention from Webelos to Boy Scouts. We had 200 Webelos who crossed over from 24 different packs into 13 different troops. 6 of those troops are within a 5 mile radius of my house. We are forming a 7th troop because the those troops are between 40 and 100+ scouts. The 40 scout troop does not have the facilities to get much bigger. Most are in 60-70 scout range We have a district volunteer with the position of Webelos Transition coordinator. She reminds webelos den leaders to visit troops, who is crossing over and who is not. if not, why not The Scoutmaster then verifies who joined their troop. Not sure what the retention after 1 year is though. I suspect it is not as good, but that would varies by troop. As a Cubmaster, I have never seen the list of TAW, but not sure if anyone would use it. We have Webelos Laisions in both the troops and packs which coordinate the activity between the units