Crossramwedge

Here is an article about the BSA being pressured to cave in on its Gay policy.. Big name CEO's of large corporations are pushing it . BSA National is going to cave if we do not do anything about it. Here is the article. Go to it and read it yourself. Seems like we ought to do a little boycotting ourselves. According to this article ATT's CEO Randall Stephenson is pegged to be the new BSA Board President and is pushing it big time. Stinks to high heaven. http://www.christianpost.com/news/boy-scouts-were-pressured-by-corporate-sponsors-to-change-policy-on-gays-89156/

Well I hear the death bell of Scouting as we know it coming to an end if National rules to let homosexuals join the BSA. To many Religious organizations will probably back out of being CO's. Many will not bend their beliefs and will not like having the possibility of being sued for sexual discrimination hanging over their necks. I am CO of our troop and am not sure what would happen to our troop if this ruling goes toward allowing gays join the BSA. I guess if it happens I will find out.

Just heard our DE is resigning his position. Nice guy. Not a Scouter, but did the best job he could. Our last 2 DE's had not been involved in scouting before they took the position. Both where college graduates in their mid 30's. They tried and to be honest with you there is no way I would become a DE. Not enough pay for the position to warrant the pressure put upon you. If you have a District committee that does not do its job, then I believe the DE can not do their jobs. How about it former DE's ?

Sorry guys, I thought that the post had been deleted. I did not realize it had gotten put on to the patrol method sight. I just ran across it earlier this evening. The family involved after some discussion has decided to move on. They and five other families are leaving. We wish them well. They have a different ideas of scouting than the rest of the troop adults. (Webelos III) ring a bell. Not a bad thing, just not for our troop. When they realized that the SM was not going anywhere and that they where not going to get their way they decided to move on. We have offered to help them in every way we could. The BOR not taking place was a mistake, but that was just one of several issues that we had with these families. They are very, very protective of their boys. Over protective if you ask me. One of the problems we had occurred when we had "Troublesome" boys join the troop. These families would get up their ire and demand ultimatums be given to these boys to immediately straighten up or get out. They do not want their boys associating with "kids like that". The other adults in the troop feel like we need to reach out to these boys and mentor and guide them because that is what we as scouts need to do. To us that is what scouting is all about. Its not about building a wall and excluding these troubled boys.

SM does not recommend boy for board of review for advancement to Life scout. Parents are livid. The story as I understand it is that as in the past the SM had asked the boy to show leadership on his own and stop relying on his Dad so much. His Dad is a helicopter parent who is stuck in Cub Scout mode. Needless to say the Dad and the SM do not see eye to eye on a lot of things. On 3 different occasions the Scout was asked to help clean up after camp outs. He was defiant and on one occasion told the SM he needed to help his Dad load up then ran over to him and stood beside him and supposedly "glared" back towards the SM kind of daring him to do something. If you read my former post about "SPL in HOT Water" in a past post this Dad is the man who got that rukus started. The SM said the boy stormed out before he had time to delve further in to the alleged problems and the solution he had in mind so the boy could have his board of review. The parents are appealing the decision of the SM. That is their right. I am at a quandry as to who they appeal to . The Unit committee or the District committee . According to this: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Appealing_a_Decision This reads to me that the appeal needs to be filed with next level up from the entity that turned down the scout for a Life Board of review. In other words from Unit level to District level. How does this work? As Committee Chair/CO what say do I have in this matter? This man has caused more trouble in the past year than we have had in the past 10 years totaled. If I had my way I would tell him to find another troop. But that is the easy way out. Any way the SM has had it and is ready to throw it all in. If we give the boy a board of review over his wishes before he holds another SM conference then thats it. He is gone. I do not want to see this. He just got word that he is the Silver Beaver award recipiant for our District this year. He does A LOT for scouting as a whole. Been in it 25 years. He just wants people to respect his decision. Oh by the way this exact same thing happened to his son 20 years ago. He did not like it and raised a little cain about it but his son recovered and made Eagle scout. The SM says scouting helped saved his son and helped turn his sons life around.

A lot OA dancers spend a lot of time and personal money to make these costumes. I know of a young man that has spent what I consider a substantial sum on his costume as well as countless hours designing and making it. He considers it his personal property and loans it to the Lodge for Ceremonial purposes. In my opinion he owns the costume and may do with it whatever he wants to. He may not be able to personally attend the Crossover himself and does not trust the other young men (perhaps from past experiences) to take care of it. Should the Lodge own their own equipment? Yes. If the Lodge provides money and supplies to design and make a costume for the Lodge then the costume would belong to the Lodge and should be stored in a place that is agreeable to all concerned. Our Lodge on occasion gathers together and has a Camp out that is specifically geared to costume design and making. We provide the supplies and the boy's supply the design and labor. During the day we do a short service project also. After all the OA is all about service.

Do you think the BSA Media Guidelines should control the content of your personal non scout web page? I personally do not think that it should. But if you read the guidelines it heavily leans to this fact. These are good guidelines but are not really anything new except YP BSA guidelines have been thrown in. I know some BSA leaders who think that if a few words or pictures are used by a scout on a personal web page that they deem a "offensive" media conversation or video then the BSA guide lines including YP guidelines should be used to control that situation. Does the BSA have the right to control a Scouts personal media page just because he/she is known as a scout and has other scouts "befriended" on that page? I actually know scout leaders who say that the BSA Media Guide should also be be brought into play when a scout is on ANY type of public media outlet. Anybody remember the book "1984" by George Orwell? I understand National has the right to try and control what is presented on Public media outlets basically used one way or another to teach, communicate or inform scouts, parents or the general public about scouting. BUT if its a personal page then they have no control over it. Lets hope that on those occasions a scout searches himself and decides to follow the wisdom and guidance contained in the Scout Oath and law before posting something that may offend anybody.

A meeting to be held Monday night. The SM has had to talk to several adults on this matter and he is ticked off. There is now talk about trying to remove the SM as well as me. This is getting out of hand to the point that I may have to approach the IH for his opinion. We are a large church and he has very little to do with the scouts.

Here it is. The SM will talk to him. He is still out of town. The SM will request that he apologize. I understand that most of you think that the scout need not apologize but that is the SM's decision, he has his reasons. He has been in scouting 20 years. There have been threats of 3 adults taking there kids and leaving. He will talk to them and explain this course of action and if it does not satisfy them then they can walk.

I am not going to produce the file. It uses language like M***F**** on several occasions. FU on more occasions. Talks about girls having orgasms so on so forth. It also uses most all the lesser cuss words. You just have to take my word for it. Thanks for the advice.

Look guys it is not a contract, its a statement that in all areas of his life he will hold up the morals and values that are embedded in the Scout oath and law and do so daily. Just a tool used to let him know that he has entered leadership in the scouts and that eyes are now upon him. He is in the spotlight. Both youth and adult leaders are watching and following his lead. Our adults are also held to high standards. Pray tell what is wrong with that? Believe it are not, Yes an adult would be approached if they put something up on his Facebook like this scout did and if on that same Facebook page he also had touted all his adventures in Scouting and mentioned the Troop regularly as this Scout does. Yes he probably would be approached. Why? Because eyes are upon the troop through him. Before it starts, NO we do not monitor scout/adult media sites. We do not have spies following people around. He is not going to be asked to resign. The SM decided that right off the bat.

My response to the situation is to back the SM. He sees no need in further embarrassing the boy. He is going to have a long talk with him. His stance is if the "concerned" parents do not like how he handles it ,then they can walk. Just to let you know the video I started to watch was so full of vulgar language and innuendo that I stopped it after 30 seconds. It is still posted on his face book page. He will reap consequences outside our troop that I have no control over. He was (and I hope still is) well thought of by just more than our troop. He is well known by the whole Area Council. To be frank the way we have been doing things have worked out for our troop quite nicely. Its spelled out in black and White. The CO is a large Church. We are known as a praying troop. Our unit number has biblical meaning. Our boys are known for being polite and well behaved yet have fun. NO we are not strict disciplinarians. We let the boys run the troop. That is a fact. It is what I call the helicopter parents who are the ones up in arms. They want to run the troop like a Cub Pack and we are trying to stop it. We have plenty of good youth leaders and our procedures have seemed to help shape and grow good new leaders. No problem there. P>(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

Most Troops have standards that the Scout should obtain before he is elected into a scout office. For instance we like our SPL to be at least 13, hold a First class rank, attend so many camp outs, wear his Scout uniform, attend at least 75% of regular Scout meetings so on so forth. We also explain to him that we expect him to adhere to the Scout Oath and Law in all aspects of his public life. This is explained to all of our "office" holders and they are required to read (with a parent or guardian present) and sign a statement that they will adhere to these standards in and out of scouting. There lies the problem. To a certain extent I personally believe he violated this standard. Consider when you go up for a promotion at work. You are expected to have reached certain goals, met training requirements and are usually judged on your interaction with your fellow employees. You also may be required to hold up to certain standards in your public life. You pass on all accounts and are promoted. If you then let down your Employer by poor job performance at work or get caught in a compromising situation that directly violates said terms of employment (even though it happened in a private situation that was not work related) are you not in trouble? After all you agreed to the terms before you took on the job. The employer then has to make a decision on what line of tack he/she will take. That depends on the nature of the offense and how serious he /she deems the damage to be. If this is your first offense of this nature and have several years of exemplary employment I should think that the employer would be a little lenient with the stipulation that you will be watched and it better not happen again. We are dealing with a barely 16 year old boy who in essence violated the terms of his contract as put before him when he was installed as SPL. Now as an "employer" do I choose to hit him hard or use the situation to show leniency and guide him and mentor him? After all he has been a very good employee (Scout) for 10 years. Yes a few hiccups along the way, but nothing of this nature. The employer (SM who by the way was also his Tiger Cub Leader) has chosen the latter. It is my position to back him. On what Scoutnut said about BSA Media Guidelines is the position I took about the BSA "Media Guide Suggestions" when I talked to the DE. These Guide lines are aimed at the use of Media outlets used in communications by troops, patrols etc. who use the social media to discuss Scouting matters . They are good guide lines for Scouters. The basis for them in IMHO is the combination of YP regulations, Scout Oath and Law and normal internet guidelines that have been around for years about the steps you need to take to be "Safe" when using public media on the internet. They are not meant to be used to govern personal media sites.(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

I happen to be the CC/COR so that is the reason I am involved and that is the reason I talked to the SM and the DE and the DE is the one who let me know that he was approached by "Concerned parents". He is not really sticking his nose in it. I originally went to him and asked him what he thought about the BSA "Media Guide lines" and of he thought that that should be thrown in the kid's face . These parents seem to think that those guidelines ought to be enforced on a "Scout" personal page. That is another discussion. Kudu, yes the video is on you tube,(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

The Scout in question is with a OA group hiking at a location several hundred miles from here. As far as I know he does not have a clue as to what a stir he has caused by posting that video. Our troop is considered to be the best troop in our District (per DE) which cover 4 counties. Up until now he was considered by many to be one of the best SPL's in the District. He is an outstanding speaker, writes articles about Scouting for the local newspaper and has published a book about his trip to the 2010 Jambo. I had a talk with our DE and found out that "concerned" parents have talked to him. He believes that this is not a dismissal offense but feels that the boy needs to face the consequences of his action. As part of his discipline I am going to suggest that he faces the Troop, apologizes and works on and gives a talk on the "Suggested Media Guidelines" that BSA National has out and when you are in BSA leadership you are a recognizable "Face" for the troop and must act accordingly in all situations. By the way one of the "offended leaders" does not even let his kids get on face book. Ages 12 AND 14.(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)