Crew21_Adv

Dawnydiesel, Greetings! I've stated before in this forum, and it may (or may not) be applicable to the unit that you commission. It's amazing how Cubs or Boy Scouts can fight during one den meeting or weekend campout. Then a week later, they can't wait to play video games together. But when adults fight, it can destroy a Pack, Troop or Crew. In my units (as with most Packs and Troops), we always have drama, constantly. The SM and ASMs and Committee don't always agree 100 percent, but we pretty much agree on some very similar foundations. But our drama is not always from the same people in our units, and minor issues can be discussed thru for the good of the Pack or Troop. Sometimes (granted, not always) if there was more dialogue and communications in the world, there would be less wars in the world. Take that down to a Pack or Troop; if everyone communicated, there would be fewer battles and less drama. There are very few guidelines about removing membership. The only one I can read is for youth may be removed if they are a threat to other youth, per chapter one of the G2SS. (Probably more physical threat, violence, language and maybe teenage influences as narcotics/alcohol). I cant find anything in writing about adult member removal, besides the obvious G2SS violations of deviance and/or violence. But this is the angry family members of a youth member. Its difficult, because the parent(s) are behaving inappropriately, but the Cub Scout seems to be behaving. Have they been told that their disruptive and rude behavior is undesirable? Has anyone in the Pack dialogued with them about their adult behavior, or does the committee just want to be rid of the problem? Probably the CC/CM should have more dialogue as to what the problems really are? Such as; When I look at the Cub Scout inspection sheet, I see a Total Uniform Inspection Score and the only rating I see is a perfect score is 100 points. I dont see a Pass on the form, but I expect the opposite of pass is to fail. Sounds like the Pack said the boy was a failure in his Uniform Inspection. I see some Scout uniforms that I would not be too proud of. And I would recognize very few Scouts as scoring 100 percent on their score. Maybe the 100 percents deserve an added recognition for precisely following instructions. But after the handful of 100 perfect scoring Scouts. After that every other Scout is layered from 99 to 0. But where is thepassed, not passed or failing score? Where can the unit say that a Scout did not pass? Id be disappointed too, if a Pack Secretary told my son that he failed a uniform inspection that (he maybe couldnt attain a 100 score) he could not fail. If the family is vocal and disruptive for other reasons. Yes. Then maybe its time for them to try another youth organization, little league baseball, Pop Warner football, soccer, Boys and Girls Club, etc.. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

John, We had a musician that studied Native American flute music visit our Crew about 3-4 months ago; his wife is one of the local high school teachers, whom works with one of our Crews Associate Advisors. He brought a few collections of flutes, and the high school band members in the Crew, were able to pick up some simple Indian melodies. I'll have to ask our Associate Advisor about the actual musician and composer names that our guest mentioned. But essentially he stated that Native American flutes are more from the Pacific Northwest tribes, and not really from the plains Indians. As he told us, most of the flute music influence would come from Oregon, Washington, Wyoming areas. He told us that most Native American POW-WOW events that you may visit in the Mid-West are more drumming and chanting that most of the tribe participated in. But the flute is a soothing and entertaining music that usually only one Indian would entertain the rest of the tribe with. He said you will hear flute music in more recent movies, like Running with Wolves and Into the West. So while Native American Flute music is popular, it is not quiet the drumming and chanting that you may hear at an OA event or Tap Out. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

DeanRx, Concur.. Don't take my previous comments as confrontational. That's why my comments were directed at Fellow Scouters. Sometimes even seasoned Scouters, don't see any reason for allowing FOS at all. I feel at least every unit should allow FOS at least once annual. Allowing FOS to visit twice; yeah, that is a decision for the Cubmaster/Scoutmaster or Committee Chair. Its not really up to a forum member to answer though. But sometimes reading about FOS on the various Scout forums or newsgroups, fellow Scouters can become afraid, offended, or cynical of FOS. Whereas some other Scouters do see FOS as a contribution, and still going to a good cause. Fellow Scouters, I don't think you can ever predict the outcome of an FOS drive. Some families and units are generous, some families and units don't really understand what FOS pays for. As a commissioner, years ago, I attended a Court of Honor for a small (one patrol) troop. The Scoutmaster and just a few families were friends of mine. Upon arrival I learned that they canceled the Court of Honor that evening on short notice, but they still wanted the FOS drive that night. Okay, only two parents were present so I gave the FOS drive; 15 minutes later, two more parents arrived; again, 15 minutes later, two more parents arrive. I guess the FOS drive lasted an hour, saying hello and explaining FOS throughout the entire hour. Out of ten families, they contributed approximately 3000.00. I was truly surprise at how much those families contributed per capita. That same year, I drove sixty miles to a Pack event. There were about sixty Cubs and over a hundred family members. After explaining FOS and what they were paying for, and the incentive programs. I received only one pledge sheet back for ten dollars. I joked with my fellow commissioners and district committee. Why the difference in FOS drives? I have no clue. I gave the same pitch. The families just shared different attitudes and opinions about FOS. More recently, during a local Pack's Blue and Gold, out of 50 families, only two pledge sheets were returned. The FOS team raised less than fifty dollars from only two families returning pledge cards. Hey, Blue and Golds are a busy ceremony, sometime placing FOS at the end of a 2-3 hour ceremony (but that is when the FOS team was invited and they scheduled us). As a member of the district commissioners team, I asked that same Pack if I could visit them a month later to conduct another FOS drive. They allowed me to attend for that purpose. I only received two additional pledge sheets. Only four families out of fifty in that Pack decided to give this year. Hey, it is a tough economic year, and at least they listened to two quick FOS pitches. Surprisingly, during the second visit, one of the four families contributed more than a thousand dollars. Whoa! Was it a second FOS visit during the same year. Yes. But the subsequent visit did help pay a few more district and council budget items. Oh and by the way.. In our district's FOS drive, we have some units that contribute significantly and we then have some units that refuse to allow any FOS campaign. I am just happy when they listen; and during good economic times, they contribute. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Here are my thoughts. Some people refer to the FOS drive, as the DE begging for their paycheck. Some councils do have a wealth of scoutstuff sales, fundraisers and corporation sponsorship. Some councils do not. Some councils and district have low income rural families. Some have districts with thriving businesses, good economy and a philanthropist millionaire in every district. I do understand that most councils financial records shows that FOS averages a decent percentage of the operating budget. So even though it is fund raising for the council, it is legitimately put to use, by paying someone for their services or paying someone for a product. Unfortunately, Ive seen executive staff decrease in two councils, primarily due to poor FOS drives. Essentially, the lowest FOS district executives were not renewed in their contract. So, yeah, a Scouter may say that their DE is begging for their annual salary, it may be true to an extent. So, while my family plans or determines what charitable contributions to different organizations we will make throughout the year, we plan in BSA/FOS. I see that my contribution to FOS allows that I have a DE that will deliver to my doorstep, instead of me driving a hundred miles to go visit them. I appreciate the changing economy, or that some families just cannot financially support Scouting anymore. Sometimes these families have worked out arrangements for dues, uniform cost, and event registration payments with the own pack or troop. I can be empathetic, but if Im gonna contribute to FOS, all my fellow Scouters in my district should have the opportunity to give or to at least hear an FOS drive and then say no. Whether to make a contribution or not; that is a personal and family decision. Whether to listen to an FOS drive; that should be a Pack or Troop decision, and I just cant see a reason why to refuse. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

Fellow Scouters, Eamon, I'm right there with you. While I never studied COBOL and FORTAN languages, I learned a little PASCAL. In the mid 90's. I was stripping Linear Recursive Sequencing Error Detection and Correction off of one's and zero's, just to get to the Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code in the underlying data. At work (away from Scouts) Most of the job related conversations at work would circle around the rearrangements of binary code. Then one Saturday morning at home, then in the late 90's while watching cartoons with my sons, the family really enjoyed a show on cartoon network called ReBoot. Being a family cartoon the writers would throw in childish humor, (not mature risqu) but adult humor that only an adult would catch, and even computer geek humor. During one episode, the ReBoot characters were in a bar/lounge with a Byte comedian on stage. As the Byte comedian told his joke, he stated, 11100100101...1..01..00.000....011111. Putting emphasis at certain times, and with a quick wrap up. In the cartoon show, the entire lounge/barroom of bits erupted with laughter. I fell of the couch, holding my stomach, laughing so hard. And, my boys, still today, cannot figure out why I thought that was so funny. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

CA_Scouter, I've had a similar issue with an Eagle Scout candidate. Being an ASM for the troop, and helping him get his documentation in order for the District Advancement Chair, days before he turned 18. I was playing middle man, attempting to get him to do the work himself, meanwhile attempting to get the district to conduct a short fused EBOR. For this young man, it was probably more closer to hours than days, between Eagle Project to Application Submission to Eagle Board to the Eagle Ceremony. So the troop leadership and committee was already acting quite flexible enough for him. His father presented the Eagle Rank application and three referral letters, the candidate himself could not meet with me to present his rank application. The three referrals contained, one from his mother, one from his father, and one from his father's co-worker (who didn't even know the young man). I had to tell the father, that the EBOR committee would desire more than just three referrals which did commented positively on the Scout. But two of which were his parents, and another gentleman that did not know the Scout, the EBOR may withhold endorsing the application and advancement report until he could obtain at least one more referral. After alot of frustration by the father and a friend. The father obtained one more referral by the next day. Was it fustrating? Yes for everyone, similar to your fustrations. But obtaining a referral from someone else that actually knew the boy was what the district and council advancement committees desired. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

EagerLeader, Greetings again! With some of the council Eagle Referrals (fill in the blank and sometime short narrative) there is a box if the letter writer is willing (or not willing) to let the Eagle candidate read the letters after the EBOR. Since you do not have a pre-formated referal and have the liberty to elaborate on the Eagle candidate. You can state many things. If you wish to allow (or not allow) the candidate to see your letter, then why don't you open with that statement. That your referal may (or may not) be shared with the candidate in the beginning or ending of your letter. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Crossramwedge, You've already heard some excellent advice. I'll I can do is echo what has already been said. But if I can tell a story about our small town, and one of the Scouting moms that enjoys camping, as well. We have a few troops in our area. Each have their distinctive traits. My troop is pretty darn good, not perfect, but we do run a good program. The biggest populated troop (with good program and parent support) is just a few miles down the road though. One of our valuable families (Two Scouts, ASM, and Committee Treasurer) moved just a few miles down the road, their two sons even had to transfer to the other school because of their new location. Their boys now have school friends and sports teammates in the larger troop down the road in the neighboring community. After some heartfelt discussions. Their family announced that they would be moving to the other larger troop. They will miss our camaraderie, but the boys will be camping and Scouting with their newest neighborhood friends and school classmates. After only a month, the family's mother signed up for the next troop's campout roster. The troop in the other neighborhood is large enough and been so successful over the years. Their campouts have only been 20-25 Scouts and a staff of 5-10 ASM and the Scoutmaster. For as long as they can remember, they've never had committee member attend a campout, nor any mothers attend any campouts, nor any siblings. No one had ever even asked. At least not in recent history that they could remember. Its just been Scouts, Scoutmaster and (just by coincidence) the all-male ASMs. In the neighboring community, as a long standing and experienced troop, the troop adult leadership just didn't know what to do, or what to say. The family saw some good traits in their new troop and some disappointing traits. We are all Scouters and friends in the district. While there is spirited rivalry, there is no hostility between troops and adults. So, the family (friends and former members of our troop) had their own sit down PLC between ASM dad, Committee member mom, Life Scout and Tenderfoot sons, and decided it was worth it to drive a few extra miles a week back to our troop, where all registered adults are welcomed to camp. Their Scouting sons will still see their friends in neighborhood activities, and will see their neighborhood friends at the district and council camporees, but are very happy to be back with us. I'm not advising your Troop or troop committee to change. But your troop may be more successful if you allow committee members to attend or allow ladies (moms) to accept any of the leadership responsibilities they are qualified for. I can certainly agree. You want the SPL to be in charge, and you want the SPL and PLC to understand whom the adult leaders are, whom the committee members are, and their differences. But if a mother readily fits the role of SM, ASM or Committee member, the take them in, and allow them to camp. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, I have attended and taught TTT/TDC a few times. And just recently attend the new stand-alone course EDGE, after staffing NYLT a few years ago. As I understand, previous TTT/TDC instructors do not need to repeat EDGE, but are welcomed. I do not have all my literature with me right now, but.... There is a statement in the admin guide area of both the 2009 edition NYLT facilitators manual and 2009 edition of the WB21C facilitators manual. If anyone has the manuals readily available they can quote the recent statement about EDGE. In short. I would say the value of EDGE is good, but a full day is too long. It is a different technique and can/will be put to use. But EDGE could be taught in a 3.5 hour half day seminar, rather than a full 9 hour day (8 hour session, plus 1 hour lunch). Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

EagerLeader, Greetings! If you were not provided with a local (multiple choice rated) questionnaire. I would write a letter who the Life Scout meets the character development in the Scout Oath and Law. (I.E. Life Scout Johnny is trustworthy, he can always be counted on for happily washing dishes during KP for each campout. Life Scout Johnny is helpful, he always helps loads the vehicles and trailers for troop excursion. He helps younger Scouts with their Scouting skills. etc etc). Like John-in-KC and evmori stated, narratives that explain how the Life Scout meets the criteria for becoming and Eagle Scout. Congrats to the young man! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Stosh, Greetings! Within my current troop, a few years ago our PLC was lacking coordination. Some good ideas, and they were good Scouts, but a lack of communications and planning. I brought in an idea from a friend of mine. We cancelled the last troop meeting of the month, and replaced that evening with the PLC meeting. Now, we do have monthly planning and communications. Our Scouts need a lot of assisted focus as our business PLC meeting could take 30-45 minutes it usually last about an hour and a half since the boys like to drift off topic to discuss video games, movies, girls, etc, and the SM/ASM bring them back to the agenda of planning. Our PLC's and SPL's have gone thru waves of "peaks and valley", sometimes a strong team, sometimes just a team (even fairly week and uncoordinated). With the PLC drifting off topic and chasing down different tangents the SM/ASMs usually sell the program to the PLC, (such as; Hey gents, consider this... If we do this event/camp, then we can get specific advancements completed and earn rank and merit badges. Does that sound cool?) With my Venturing Crew, they too are a good set of teenagers. But school, sports and even after school work sometimes occupies their planning process. So I sometimes tell them, "this is my program. Anytime you want it, just come and take it away from me." I don't say this in a hostile tone, but just to accomplish (or begin event planning). It is usually effective and the Venturing Crew teenagers usually take control of the Crew event planning away from me, and relieve me of my duties. But sometimes I can see they are so busy, that I do plan a few events for them (maybe a rotation of the Crew Officers do 3/4 of the work, and I do 1/4 of the work). So, I would say that any effective Troop or Crew does not have to be viewed as adult mandates vs. boy led, but more of adult association and youth led working in harmony. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Here's my two cents... I certainly concur it would be nice for Scouting to recognize academic achievement and vice versa. Agreeing with both sides of eaglescout4029's and Beavah's comments. Some of the current career academic achievement Scouting Awards that already exist within the BSA are the Navigators Career Award of Excellence Medal (14217) and the Navigators Character Award of Excellence Medal (14217). I just don't see another medal to work towards. But possibly, a patch similar to the recruiting strip maybe.... But what would the criteria be? Would everyone be equally eligible to begin working on it? Would learning disabled or special needs Scouts have a fair and equal ability to earn the award? Would it be only a Boy Scout recognition? Or would there be equivalent level recognitions in Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturing, and Learning for Life Explorers? Would it be a onetime award (at the end of the 12th grade of high school)? Would it encompass a GPA covering one year, four years, twelve years? Would Gifted & Talented or Honor classes be a requirement? What if different states use different achievement test standards? CAT, Terra Nova, etc BSA has long been concerned with education in America, this reason is one of the foundations for why we exists. I concur that the BSA (and other Scouting associations) have made education and learning a priority, although not a formally recognizing academic credentials. Many academia contribute to the Cub Scout belt loop and Scout merit badge program literature. Boys Life magazine specifically has been written to assist with reading and increase literacy. Specifically the Cub Scout handbook for Sports and Academics was renamed to the Academic and Sports program about 7-8 years ago. Bottom line, I'm all for an academic achievement patch (with requirements) that all Scouts can earn for the temporary patch placement on the right pocket. But I'm not enthusiastic about another medal. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

rclearh2o, Greetings! You've received some excellent advice. Here are my two cents. Like a few fellow forum members, I've always thought that the Webelos Rank, Arrow of Light and Crossover should be separate ceremonies. I believe the Arrow of Light ceremony is what all Cub Scouts should see. That they should strive to earn the AOL. Just by looking at the nationwide statistics. Cub Scouting has the majority of numbers in the program. Unfortunately, Scouting has fewer numbers that Cub Scouting even if the Cubs (and Webelos) see a great Bridging-Over ceremony year after year, there are still families that depart from the program after the Webelos year. I've always felt that the Bridging-Over ceremony is more for the Webelos II and their parents. That the pack should be invited, but at an outdoor location where they can actually bridge into a Boy Scout troop. Webelos can bridge over without earning the Arrow of Light. So bridging is a ceremony of leaving the Cub Scout program into the Boy Scout program, it is not signifying an advancement completion. I've encouraged fellow Scouters not to place every ceremony on the Blue and Gold event. I've hosted and attended a few B&G. Some were one hour long, a blast and everyone had fun. Some were four hour long (three hours too many) and were chaos. So I recommend that these events should be what would motivate Cub Scouts to reach an attainable goal, and I've always seen that as earning the Arrow of Light. The Bridging is great, and a good ceremony. But if I had to choose for anxious parents and energetic boys, I would show them the Arrow of Light ceremony. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv (This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

CSCC Nervous CC Bear, Greetings! Are you a Cub Scout Committee Chair? You only posted today, and met with your ticket counselor also today. Most everyone stated it should be expected to be a casual discussion about your ticket. For future meetings, I would be ready to discuss the goals and SMART accomplishments. Be ready to explain how the accomplishments were Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant and Timely. i.e. "I did this event, with these many scouts, at this time, that help a specific number of advancement on this date" Those explanations should satisfy any ticket counselor. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

HICO_Eagle, Greetings! Myself, I am currently renewing my drivers license while out of state. It is a small hassle, getting a together few applications and documents in order and having them notarized. The applications are a controlled item that the state does not even place online, so I had to mail the license bureau, just to ask for the forms to begin the process. But at least the state is not telling me, I have return for a written test, drivers test and photo. I have some mandatory things I must do, but I do not have to complete every mandatory task that I did back when I was 16. Of course, I cannot speak on behalf of the BSA, or your council; and much of what Ive experienced is second hand discussions with professionals; so I can only offer my opinion.... There are benefits of staying current. At a minimum the bi-annual refresher on the most current Youth Protection (which changes occasionally), and certain other safety courses which carry an expiration date. Though, while the BSA advancement programs do go thru changes, they do not change that drastically. I can appreciate the decision that has to be made. Sometimes attending BSA training is a sacrifice, sometimes it is not a problem for some parents with plenty of time. I can acknowledge, the dutiful parent with now younger children following their older Scouting sons; or better yet, the grandparents which were there throughout their sons making Eagle and now returning to the program again in Cub Scouting. Some of these Scouters were trained under previous curriculum, and then needs to sacrifice weekend after weekend, sacrifice another little league game, or sacrifice coaching soccer, or give up the family vacation, or even sometimes driving an hour or more round-trip to re-earn the "trained" strip. That is sometimes a lot to ask. (I do not have grandchildren yet, but I can just imagine a young committee chair telling me I have to go thru all the Cub Scout training again, and telling me it is mandatory to sit thru every session). If a previous trained scouting parent is just sitting on the couch for the weekend, I'd have no problem shaming them. But if it is truly a sacrifice they would have to make; I don't see the need to be retrained in Outdoor Leadership Skills, if they have already attended SMF years earlier. If it convenient to attend and to remain current, I would ask "Why wouldn't you?" But if a Scouter were previously trained, (except for the nationally stated expirations YPT, Safety Afloat, Safe Swim Defense and etc), I don't see why they should necessarily sacrifice any other program to be re-"trained". I would love to see them in training, but not begrudgedly. Now saying that, HICO_Eagle commented on how Scoutmaster Fundamentals translates into Scoutmaster Specifics. I would adhere to all safety training expiration dates. If you are planning a trip or excursion, those current training items are now mandatory on the local and national tour permits. If you are confirming that your troop remains eligible for centennial quality awards, or to demonstrate high percentage of trained leaders in a unit. I would concur that your SMF "grandfathers" the current training, and your "trained" patch is valid. At least, I've been told that these program training are grandfathered. As I have been told. The older training codes are still valid in Scoutnet. Just google "BSA training codes" and you can see the previous SMF part 1, part 2 and part 3 codes, also the codes for Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders and Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge before the Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Again, I have also been told (although I have not seen) that Scoutnet will generate training statistics by district, and I understand that the database entry for SMF will suffice for a positive percentage. You may need to dialogue with your council's registrar and DE, to validate if this does hold true. Just on this topic, it may be best to skip the District Training Chair and ask the Council Registrar. All councils maintain records, most every council has finally made the switch to Scoutnet. The Council Registrar is the database administrator for Scoutnet. But all your data will be held under your current Scout ID number, which is probably different than the Scout ID number you had when you attended SMF in another council. (Otherwise stating your pre-existing training is not document under your current Scout ID) It sounds like you were trained in another district and council years earlier. Do you still have your training credentials (wallet cards)? Then I would present your older training to your council registrar. At a minimum, I would expect your previous training to satisfy the mandatory program training requirements for the trained strip, and then you would only need to satisfy the mandatory renewals of the various safety courses. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

Fellow Scouters, I actually like Tonys safety practice and I've echoed it many times. "It Goes in the fire, it stays in the fire." Kids (and even adults) enjoy fire and what it can do, but sometimes a little too much. Now, years later, I can find the humor in it. But I tell this story during training how a regular event can quickly become dangerous. Many years ago during a Cub Scout Pack family camp, after the day was over and the families were making smores around the campfire. One of the young sister siblings Marshmallow caught on fire. You can probably imagine it in your mind, it was like she was casting a fishing rod, she was rapidly swinging her stick and flaming marshmallow between the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock position. Suddenly it came off, arched over the campfire, and landed on youngest Crew21_Adv son's cheek and face. I was standing right next to him at the time. I think my son did an entire flip, I hit him so hard. But, the fire was out. Within seconds, he was covered with first aid ointments and cremes from about 10 different first aid kits. More recently. Regularly during campouts, I've known Scouts and patrols that loved to cook bacon on the flat skillet over their coleman stove. I continuously recommend canned corn beef, since there is less grease; but they love bacon and the grease flash. They even love it, when the can tip the skillet just slightly to accidently let the grease fall into the flame causing a sudden huge firey flash. And I've often heard "Dude, That was cool, do it again! Do it again!" Once nearly catching a Scout ball cap on fire, and another time, burning a small hole thru the canvas dining fly. Sorry, but I personally think bacon should be banned from boy scouting. But back to the post, I certainly like Tonys, comment. "It goes in the fire, it stays in the fire". Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ps56k, Greetings! With my Crew21_Adv's oldest Eagle Scout son, he received a "charge" (challenge, oath, promise) in his certificate kit from National. It appears this "charge" was/is optional at an Eagle ceremony, but it was the one included in his kit. I do not have his Eagle Ceremony Scrapbook in front of me currently, so I am shooting from the hip. It was the same as the few popular charges found on many ECOH ceremony website suggestions. You've probably read thru a few versions already. As I recall, on one side is an image of a soaring eagle, and on the other side the charge. (off the top of my head, I just can't remember which one it is though). But with my Crew21_Adv's youngest Eagle Scout son, he received the national certificate and wallet card kit, but this time without a charge/photo of soaring Eagle included. Which tells me, national BSA has just stopped inserting it into the recent packages. Concur with EV, you can ask the newest Eagle Scout to accept a Challenge, take the Charge, make the Promise, etc. It is more of the Eagle Scout's and families decision. But if you want to avoid any odd looks from fellow Eagles, I would confirm what that insert is, probably the one you have referred to 58-900. I don't think any Eagle Scout would ever be offended by any Challenge, Charge, Promise, or Oath; but they may think it is odd, if it is not the same "charge" as they personally remember. I will attempt to post again, after I have consulted with my Eagle Scout and viewed his Eagle Ceremony Scrapbook. Quickly reviewing NESA and Scouting.org. I could not find the same style "charge" certificate as my oldest was given in his certificate kit, but there is a "charge" or "pledge" in the Troop Program Resources in the recommended ECOH ceremonies section. http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33588.pdf Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

SMT224, Greetings! The loss of a Scout can be dramatic. Nearly 15 years ago, I knew of a Life Scout and father, within my same district, who were on the side of the road constructing a school bus stop for his Eagle Project. A drunk driver came off the road, and struck the partially constructed wooden bus stop. Out of the Scouts and adults working on the service project, it was only the father and son that were hit and killed. It hurt the entire Council dramatically. Unfortunately, we all lose friends and family, regardless of age, from the very seasoned older Scouters down to some very young Scouts and even Cubs. But it makes it much worse, when their loss was caused by someone else's error. After two years, I would hope that most of pain has passed, and that the family can appreciate the congratulatory comments that Congressional and Government officials have made, and forgive their officials for the "boilerplate" letters. I am not mocking the Eagle Scout in your troop, but hopefully you can find the humor in this. With my youngest son and Eagle Scout, in all the congratulatory letters he received a similar (clerical error) response from The Attorney General of the U.S.. We thought about reading it, but our son refused it, during the ceremony just for the humor. The Attorney General addressed my son as an excellent model Girl Scout, young lady, and congratulated her (him) on achieving his Gold Award. Back to the loss of your Troop's Eagle Scout and his family. I would be forgiving, take it humorously, and quote only the congratulatory remarks. Finally, you have already held the funeral and memorial for him. The Eagle Scout ceremony is a celebration. But if you happen to include a memorial portion in the ceremony, if the young man was a member of the OA, there is a "Broken Arrow" ceremony, which can be abbreviated into a "Broken Arrow" story. At the same time my condolences and congratulations to the family! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

Yes. Concur with emb021, and I implied, these photos are normally during ECOH ceremonies. But only commented to illustrate that some ECOH attendees have worn the Eagle Scout medal on their regular "shirt, tie and blazer". Like emb021 stated, the Eagle pin, which resembles the Eagle medal device, and there is also a NESA lapel pin for civilian wear. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Hardcore, Greetings! I don't know about white-tie events. But regularly in the EagleLetter, there are fellow Eagle Scout family members and friends posing with the newest Eagle. Not all, but some are usually in suit and tie, wearing their Eagle Medal. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Cubmaster C, Good question. In my opinion. I think the restriction is for participation, and does not cover demonstrating, viewing or observing. I would recommend using your best judgment as a Scout leader and discuss with the committee. There are a few martial arts that are strictly offensive, even with the demonstrations going for the quicker "kill". For my troop, we once received a local tour permission (permit) to take our Troop to a college football game. Also, I've also been to a Tiger Cub Den outing where we went to a personal hunting museum. My son and I were attendees, not the trip planner. The museum was a converted bowling alley, became a trophy museum for a local millionaire and hunting enthusiast) The world hunter had many stuffed animals statues and mounted heads from around the world. All of the animals were on the allowed hunting list of that country and considered "over populated" by the countries game wardens. The Tigers thought it was neat. But the Tiger Cub Partners all had mixed feelings, from neat to disgusting. I said this just to "know your audience". But for a karate tech sport. I think it would be safe to host a demonstration, but absolutely no audience participation (or bringing someone for the audience to hold a board, balance an apple, or anything that may inadvertently cause injury to an audience member). Good Luck and hope they enjoy it! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Posted a reply so quick, I didn't see Eagle92 had the quote from The Insignia Guide, Special Regulations. Crew21 Adv

Elishemay, Greetings! Yes. You can have adventures outside of the United States, when given permission for an International Tour Permit. Also, A member can participate in other international courses, sometimes as just an independent, and sometimes as a representative of the BSA. As for other Awards. Yes look in the Insignia Guide. Not under International, but under Special Recognitions (read at the bottom of my post) You've been told about the International Activity Patch, there is also the International Commissioners, International Adult Award, etc. Check out the www.scouting.org and select International. Whether you may wear international recognition on your uniform. (and I probably need help from some of our fellow Scouters here) I believe a discussion on another forum years ago, about Past BSA President Gere Ratcliff (sp?), in the inside cover of the BSA Handbook he wore two International recognitions on his official photo. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv Awards from Other Scout Associations Scouters occasionally receive awards from Scouting associations of other nations, and it is important that they know how these awards should be worn. This does not include jamboree patches. Following are the regulations for wearing such awards: They are always worn when visiting the country whose Scouting association presented the award or when attending a meeting or function attended by Scouters from that country. Medals awarded by other associations are worn above the left breast pocket.

mls1 Greetings again! Good.. Hopefully your son, will quickly overcome his misbehavior from the Scouting Oath and Law. Of course, no one is perfect. Some boys and some Scouts do error in judgment on occasion. But hopefully your son repairs any damages and is quickly forgiven. But he should start onto his project as soon as he is ready. If he has paid any debt for previous errors, and has been deemed to display Scouting spirit. Then there should be no stalling by the members of the committee. Questions, confirmations and observations certainly. But no stalling. If the advancement committee member then begins any trouble, then he or she is doing the Scouts and troop a disservice. The COR/IH should immediately concur if they can clearly see that satisfactory progress is not occurring. Similarly, the District Key Three, or DE/SE should work to correct the disservice. Even, if it leads to firing a volunteer. After a committee member stalls your son for no other reason that out of spite. I would support your and expect most of the forum to concur with your concerns. But we can't really concur, if action (or no action) has not yet taken place. It is awaiting your son to begin his trail to Eagle by beginning his leadership project. In NYLT and Wood Badge, one of the first lessons is Communications. If the world nations could communicate better, the would be fewer wars. Equally, if Scouts, Scouting leaders, parents, and committee members would communicate better, there would be fewer dysfunctional packs, troops or crews. Hopefully your son can begin the communications. Start his project, and really get going on the trail. It would only be then, that any concerned third party or mediator could identify an actual disservice or work not to shorten your sons trail to Eagle. It will still be a steep climb and solo hike of his own journey, but tough obstacles, road blocks, can only be smoothed if they can truly be witnessed and identified. Good luck to your son!! And hopefully he gets started soon! Additionally, I hope the Scoutmaster and advancement committee member do their job and assist every Scout on their trail. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

mls1, Greetings! Difficult situation. You asked, is there any hope for a dysfunctional committee and troop? I say yes. You asked, any suggestions or ideas? Yes, start the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project. You stated Its approved. The only hope for a dysfunctional committee and troop is if they get training. Either attend training or self study. Then comply with the handbooks. Its fairly easy; I don't see why everyone (every Scouter) doesn't do it. I've said before. (and I was joking with a fellow ASM just last night) Its amazing how Scouts may fight and argue during one campout; then a week later, they (most of them) are best buddies at the next Scout troop meeting. But adults, we come together as a committee, and somehow we hold grudges, anger, disappointments, and resentment. Its amazing how some troops survive with the parents constantly arguing and disagreeing. It sounds like your family has a personal disagreement with a member of the committee. But this committee member has not yet stalled or impeded your sons trail to Eagle. Hopefully your son's Trail to Eagle Scout will not be impeded by any adults or committee. Many project workbooks need to be clarified for safety, leadership, schedule, and communications. It should not be stalled out of anger or spite, but may be returned till the Life Scout (any Life Scout) complies with the project workbook, Eagle scout rank application and advancements handbook. Your son's project is approved, but he is not starting because he is hesitant of the committee. That is only speculation. The committee or the advancement chair has not stalled anything yet. Your son has to start his project, for them to actually stall it. Unfortunately, your son has gone to his Scoutmaster to admit he was partially responsible for doing something during December. By your own posting, it appears your son has done something he should not have done. And may jeopardize his own Eagle trail. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Between Tenderfoot thru Life this same requirement applies. Then for Eagle Scout Rank, Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. Although your son should be able to earn this signature from the Scoutmaster, your son sounds like he has not yet earned Scout spirit. "We've told our son to make sure he keeps his nose exceptionally clean and obeys the Scout law to the letter. We've also told him over and over, as long as you've done the right thing, always tell the truth and obey the Scout law, you're in the clear and don't need to worry about other peoples' issues." It sounds like your son has not obeyed the Scout Law, as recent as December. This Scouter.com forum had an earlier discussion a few months ago, about Scouts which misbehave and can they earn Eagle. I say yes, they can be redeemed, earn Scout Spirit and earn the rank of Eagle Scout. The Trail to Eagle is still there, but maybe a little steeper and more difficult to climb. It sounds like your son has not yet started his trail, he is about to start construction, but he is hesitating because he's afraid. It may be a very steep trail, but he needs to start it. Sometimes cleaning the slate can be as easy as I'm Sorry, sometimes not. Sometimes, a simple "I'm sorry" or I was partially responsible is not so easy to fix damages (like your son needs to do) and earn the Scout Spirit so easily. The Scoutmaster should determine when he/she signs the Scout Spirit. Your son, should determine when he is ready to start the approved project. The Advancement committee member, should comply with the advancement handbook. Doing a professional job, disregarding personal feelings. The Committee Chair may select someone else willing to do the job of Advancements correctly, if your Advancement committee member is refusing to do the correct job. Further, I am sorry about your husbands cancer. It can make life difficult; it can make recreation difficult, and can add stress to daily chores. But his cancer and your sons Trail to Eagle are two different issues. Is your son excused from taking test in school or taking semester finals? Im sure the teachers and school administration are concerned about the welfare of their student and the students family situation, but the school has to be fair to the entire student body. Hopefully your son gets back on track, begins his project, and starts on the trail to Eagle. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv