Crew21_Adv

Rayburn, Greetings! Excellent advice already.. To add just a few of my comments, You stated that there are some adult Arrowmen in your troop, but they received OA recognition during their own youth. But it sounds like there has not been an adult election/nomination in the past few years. The Scoutmaster assist the SPL and PLC with the program, to include inviting and scheduling a Chapter/Lodge election team visit. But it should be on the Troop Committee Chair's agenda to inquire the eligibility of the adults, and conduct an adult election. I've seen about 95 percent of troops conduct election during the schedule election period of the year. I have also seen the final 5 percent of units that would not invite the election team, then request the Summer Camp staff to conduct an impromtu election. Why they do something like this, I don't understand. It harms the Chapter's performance and usually misses eligible youth and adults from the election. But for those that schedule elections IAW Lodge bylaws and invite an election team, they should have an adult election on the Committee's agenda during the previous month. A few fellow forum members commented on adults in the OA and lodge. It is a youth based program, but a few of the greatest needs after the Advisors are drivers and cooks. Most Arrowmen do not drive yet. So having adults that will haul 4 seatbelted youth from event to event is a great service. The more drivers the better! Hopefully, your Committee will place adult OA election on the agenda during your next OA election season. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

NickP412 and Fellow Scouters, Wearing a Philmont Belt during an EBOR (or any BOR) may raise questions. Certainly a good discussion topic. (As with anything you wear on your uniform) Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

Hal, Ouch! That was horrible.. lol Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

BrentAllen and Fellow Scouters, If I may rant for a little while... During Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills, I discuss the Guide to Safe Scouting, my fellow trainers call it the "Crew21 Adv, Gloom and Doom Speech". Mixed with a few laughs of what we cannot do, many of the new Scouters state "you're kidding" when they learn of the numerous safety restrictions and Sweet 16 of Scouting. I remind them that Scouts and leaders have become injured or died by improper planning or participating in dangerous activities. Still after all these injuries and accidental deaths, Scoutings safety record is very good compared to other recreational organizations. Fortunately, the BSA Online Learning Center now has the Weather Hazards training. I've remind fellow Scouters of the unfortunate deaths or injuries of our fellow Scouts that were caused by not planning for weather. Some of my reminders include. This episode of "I Shouldn't Be Alive", the Troop that was snowed-in, up in the West Virginia mountains (found 24 hours later but a few had to amputate fingers and toes due to frostbite). The single special needs Scout that wondered away from camp and was recovered on the trail 3 days later. The drowning of the aquatics water-front staff member that was sent to retrieve buoys by himself at the end of summer camp. The morning assembly Scout honor guard that was hit with shrapnel from a small bore cannon fired during flag raising. The exhausted leader that did not get enough sleep and the van of Scouts went over the edge of a mountain road. The recent deaths at National Jamboree. The Summer Camp staffers that were playing with fire and lighter fluid just this last summer. During adult training, they usually know we will discuss difficult topics, such as accident or injury to a Scout or adult during an event. Fellow Scouting adults are a little more flexible about these topics. They can understand the severity of safety, and quickly transition to other fun and educational topics. So after my "Gloom and Doom" speech, we discuss planning, tour permits, and etc. Then slowly move back to outdoor fun and learning. Hopefully. These tragic losses in Scouting could lead to a Scoutmasters minute or discussion during First Aid Merit Badge or your discussion topics in district training events. Thanks for allowing me to rant. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Lexinton76, The publication "Cub Scout Ceremonies for Dens and Packs" has a Den Leader Investure ceremony, which can be shorted and modified for a Troop SM, ASM, and Troop Committee. I like the idea, but with adult recognitions and ceremonies, I personally like to keep them short and sweet during a regular COH. The investure would be a public promise or a commitment by the adult leaders to guide and counsel the PLC and respective Positions of Responsibility in the Troop. A few candles, Scout sign, make the promise, handshakes and sit down. It could all be done in a minute if rehearsed. The program is for the boys. But it is a family program and you need to give the adults a pat on the back every so often. Years ago, I tried to recognize my adults twice a year, once at the beginning of the school year and then at the end of the school year (March-April). Obviously, we want to recognize the boys for their educational and peformance accomplishments (which is the merit badge and advancement program). We also want to thank our adult leaders. These small "atta-boy" ceremonies will slow down or prevent some burn out and keep them coming back week after week. When adults volunteer by signing an application. Some become just another troop committee member, never giving any time or effort to perform assigned tasks. Others may execute their volunteer tasks precisely, others may not dedicate the time to be a treasurer, secretary, fundraiser, etc. An investure ceremony will both "put them on the spot" and recognize them for their volunteering. At the end of the year, if they have qualified for training award "knots", present them with their training awards. If they just have not qualified for training awards, but are great Scouters for driving, cooking, fundraising, etc; then certificates, trophies, and other warm fuzzies can be awarded to recognize their work with the troop. So back to the investure ceremony. I would look into the Cub Scout Ceremonies for Dens and Packs, and take the investure promise as a draft sample for your ceremony. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Vigil89, Greetings! You've received excellent advice. And it is not uncommon for a young 20'ish college student or labor force employee to desire to maintain a minimal tenure with Scouting. The volunteers and professionals in Scouting can also understand your concerns (as well as the thousands of fresh 18 year old former Boy Scouts each year). Some do have the time to remain with their home troop, while work and education will take some great young adults away for a time. In addition to the ideas that have been given you, I would personally talk with your DE, the Lodge Registrar, and the Lodge Advisor, to identify an adult position that you can maintain Scouting tenure till you complete your educational goals. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

MichaelOA, Greetings! Alot of youth are plugged into electronics. But timing is everything. Here are just a few of my thoughts. At least for cell phones, during a recent NYLT the admin office held the cellphones and electronic games until graduation. We noticed that most of the youth did not wear watches, but used their cell phone to tell time and also as an alarm clock. I don't know if that is a good excuse for all of them, but our NYLT will have to list electronic travel clock in our future list to bring to NYLT. Regarding your troop. If there is an "after the boring part of the meeting", then your PLC is not doing their job. Also, there should not be a game time, but an interpatrol activity, to re-inforce the Scouting skill just being taught-learned. A troop meeting should be full of Scouting skills and events, from start to finish. Your fellow Scouts can make phone calls after the meeting. If not, they are losing out and doing themselves a disservice. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Comm Chair, Greetings! Similar to emb021, I state WB is a course about setting goals, and how to carry out those goals. Ideally those goals will benefit your primary organization. Basically it will help your son(s), and other parents son(s) to achieve advancement. It uses leadership educational material, Disney movies, and games (with a purpose) wrapped up in Cub Scout, Boy Scout and Venturing theme, to see where you may help your program succeed. During Roundtables, I tell my friends that, if you want you Pack, Troop or Crew to benefit then attend Wood Badge. And if you really want your Troop to benefit, send you SPL/PL's to NYLT. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters and emb021, For emb021,yes, I heard the exact same comment about 12-13 years ago which you posted as a reply, from a regional committee member and Scouting friend. Nearly word for word. I just didn't want to pass my second/third hand "broken BSA-GSUSA negotiations" as Scouting fact (without the proof), but I do believe the story is true and the GSUSA withdrew from a merger. With emb021 exact same description, the only addition I heard was that the GSUSA did not want to lose their heritage and emblems. I heard the GSUSA became afraid (in the 60's merger negotiation) that they would loose their identity in the BSA program, and cordially/peacefully withdrew from the merger. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv My comment: "Urban legend also has it that GSUSA was negotiated a merge in the mid-60's, to create a program similar to the British Scouting Associations, but as usual negotiations broke down and we remained two seperate programs. (again, per urban Scouting legend)." emb021 response: This is not an urban legend. It did happen. I've spoken with professions who were involved with it. The BSA, GSUSA, and Camp Fire Girls were in discussion to merge in the late 60s. The BSA allowing Girl Scouts & Camp Fire Girls to be participants in Explorer Posts from 1969-71 was part of this effort. But discussions broke down and it didn't happen. The result was Exploring going fully co-ed in 1971 and Camp Fire themselves going co-ed in 75.

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! I'd like to add my comments to this topic. My opinion, there has often been talks about allow Venturing girls to earn Eagle, but those discussions are not at the National Committee levels. Urban legend also has it that GSUSA was negotiated a merge in the mid-60's, to create a program similar to the British Scouting Associations, but as usual negotiations broke down and we remained two seperate programs. (again, per urban Scouting legend). Regarding Venturing girls in the OA. I recently had the pleasure of meeting the National Venturing President 2009-2010, Matthew McGroarty. I believe he stated that both his parents are lawyers. During the open question period, our current National Venturing President was very good at evading specific questions about a national honor recognition for girls and boys in Venturing. From his explanation, it appears that national committees may consider (and reconsider) various options each year, and either dismiss them or investigate the possibility further. If you take a look at World Jamboree, some countries have successful educational and camping programs with boys and girls in the same troop, while other co-ed Scouting countries really have a akward program that would not be acceptable in American traditional standards. Also, National level programs and national changes that affect the entire program are usually announced during the National Convention in May. Not normally during NOAC (every three years). So.. Who will be the first girl Eagle Scout. Maybe the better question is when? My own opinion, I wouldn't expect it in the near future. Maybe by 2110? The 200th Anniversary of BSA? Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters and Trainers, As I sit here at NYLT struggling to keep my eyes open. For our Council-district trainers whom have completed a small checklist, we recognize them with a specific nametag. Alot of great Scouters, but very few complete the checklist requirements. Maybe about 10 or less each year. For my friends that take the time off to come back to Specifics, IOLS, BALOO, I give the a district trainer 3" trainers round patch (for the shirt pocket), and a Thank you certificate. So those are some easy mementos. Like others have said, having Scouter Joe come smiling down the trail and tell his ASM/Committee Members "Hey! This is Crew21_Adv, he taught me everything I know at Outdoor training last year". Smiles, handshakes, catching up on our Scouting sons and families are the real paycheck. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

imasoonerfan, Greetings! A few fellow Venturers gave you great advice. John in KC hit the nail on the head. Frankly, the best advertisers are your own youth. The teenagers in the high school don't want to hear some middle aged guy standing in front of the school wearing a green shirt. They will briefly check out what a friend (Venturer) says is cool. Here is my advice and a few comment.. Recruit a high school teacher to be your Associate Advisor, a former Eagle Scout if you can. One that sees the educational-fun benefit of Venturing. Many primary and elementary school teachers have seen the Cub Scout program offers the "Academic and Sports" belt loop recognition program, and academic learning involved. But the high school teachers, principals and staff need to learn that Venturing is not only a social/recreational club, but an educational program as well. Early in September, conduct a fun day Venturing event. See if you can obtain permission to conduct Low COPES (no climbing or jumping) and team building games in the food court of your local mall or in the lobby of the local movie theater. Some of the games that teenagers would laugh and participate in, and can easily walk into. (Such as, silent line up by height, silent line up by age, everyone up, team pushups, traffic jam, acid river, or bring a few Jenga games). Various games that the local teenagers can walk up to and participate while they can. I have a local handout flyer saying "It is easy being green", top part of the flyer has Kermit, Hulk, gremlin, green lantern, etc., middle has our contact info, and the bottom portion has action pictures of our Crew biking, hiking, shooting, riding, eating, playing, etc. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

momma bee, Greetings again! During your 0400 forum post, your typing read much more easier and coherent. If you are looking for a job title for the one Scout that is purchasing the food, cooking, and running the program. You may call him a "grubmaster", but if the weekend program falls on his shoulder he may be the Senior Patrol Leader. I concur with Hal. I don't like to see troops fold and retire, but I equally don't like to see program and families suffer. Of the five Scouts, the remaining active Scouts (two or three) may really enjoy a drive to the next town to join an active troop. I have known parents and families that will drop the Scout off at the corner of the meeting location, or parents that will allow their son to walk to meetings, but those few parents won't drive their son two miles down the road. Then I've met many parents that have seen a quality program and will drive 30-45 miles (or more) to take their son to a quality troop each week, weekends and every event. Because their Scout is actually benefiting from the new troop and long distance drive. Those that make the choice to commute the distance to a good program really get alot from their own Scouts growth and family friendship within the pack/troop. It is admirable that you and your husband have given it your best attempt to maintain the current troop in your community. But there is usually a minimum threshold to decide that it is time to retire the flags and equipment. Equipment may sometimes be donated to another neighboring troop (topic for another discussion). And the flag may later be unrolled and brought out of retirement, if the community ever decides that a troop is needed in the community. Good Luck in your decision! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

momma_bee, Greetings! It sounds like the troop needs to work on planning and communications. I'm with Eamonn. I kinda got lost in your post as well. The adults/parents should not do everything for the Scouts. But they are the as "Adult Association" for role models and guidance. The Scouts will not know how to do many things, unless they have practiced EDGE. An ASM or older Scout will have to demonstrate menu planning or even purchasing. A fill in the blank sheet as you stated will help alot. But I would not just tell a new patrol, "Here's the blank sheet, you're responsible for everything." Similarly, they will not have any meetings planned if they don't learn to plan or hold a separate PLC. Again, EDGE fits in here nicely. For this the SPL and as many PL's as you can, should be sent to NYLT, so that they can see what communications and planning are about. Finally, the parents look towards you it sounds. As a parent and "Jack of All Trades", the parents look to the SM-ASM team to have all of the answers. In my troop, we know we are good; but not "that good" to be called "All Knowing". So as the various parents ask the adult leaders about the plan, we send out emails placing the communication responsibility back on the Scouts and stating something similar to this. Then we will follow up with a brief calendar, date-time-location, subject to change. "If you want to know what is happening, ask your son. If you son does not know what is happening, he should ask his Patrol Leader. If his Patrol Leader does not know what is happening, he should ask the Senior Patrol Leader. If the Senior Patrol Leader doesn't know what is happening, then we don't have a plan (or we are in trouble)." Possibly you need to send similar emails, to groom your parents to understand it is their son' responsibilty to communicate with his PL or SPL. So, my bottom line. Send the Scouts to NYLT, send the adults to Wood Badge, and practice/apply communications. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Justmescout, Greetings! Yes.. This topic has been discussed before, on this forum and a few other Scouting newsgroups and blogs. Here are my thoughts. There are some locations were Scouts (and families) cannot afford a uniform, but there are some strategies to help them out. But in your case, it sounds like they all have uniforms, but are not correctly wearing them or sewing their issued patches on. A few techniques. Find out what will motivate them, i.e. "What's In It For Me?" My troop does a monthly uniform inspection. We only wear full uniform on the first meeting of the month, BOR, COH, and specific occasions. Ever three months, the best patrol (uniform, flag, cheer, etc) receives either pizza or ice cream. Eagle92, did offer a good comment. If the Scouts new about a District and Unit Commissioner coming to inspect their troop and uniforms. They Scouts may be happy if they are looking good, or they may also be able to recognize if the Commissioners where just not too happy with their visit. I wouldn't call it public shaming, but if a commissioner commented to the entire troop "I would really like to come back and present a prize to the best patrol, when you guys are ready for me to inspect you. Let me know when I can visit again". A friend has offered this and my troop has tried it on a few occasions. He placed everyone against the wall and put a bowl of candy bars in the middle of the room, and stated, everyone with a Scout shirt take one step forward, everyone wearing the correct rank patch take one step forward, everyone with green Scout socks take one step forward, progressively a few Scouts eliminated themselves, till only the correctly uniformed Scouts received the candy bars. With your unit, it sounds like it won't change overnight. But you will need to convince two groups of returning to a uniformed troop. The committee (such as not conducting a BOR, unless the Scout is ready for a uniform inspection), and the PLC. The PLC should guide the troop as well as set the example, and if they feel that it is their idea to be a better uniformed troop, it will occur much faster. You asked how long is "too long" and you don't want to sound harsh or pushy. Then ask the PLC if they can set a date for a uniform inspection. It will be their plan and their deadline. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Joe, Greetings! IMHO, the Scoutmaster is ultimately responsible for the troop and assist the PLC to deliver an advancement program to the troop. The Troop Committee Chairman is responsible for guiding the Committee, which supports the Scoutmaster is providing a program resources, funding and transportation. It seems that you have seen and talked with the Scout and also his parents. Sending a letter would be establishing a documented requirement and setting an example of desired behavior, as a follow up to your previous discussions. The first Eagle Scout requirement, Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout. Has the Scout satisfied this requirement and been signed off as being active? I concur, I would be happy to have a Life Scout participate (or somewhat participate) in the troop over the year before he makes Eagle. It is the Star and Life Scouts that normally run the troop and that is the rank that the younger Scouts look up to. The Life Scouts are the shining example of what an 11 y/o Scout wants to be. Most Tenderfoot Scouts like the Scoutmaster and leadership, but they really idolize the cool 16-17 year old Scouts. If you are absolutely sure that you want to send a letter of this type, it does not shut the Scout down from making Eagle. It would only mean that this Scout would not be given a "free ride" or an "Eagle Mill" ticket punched by your troop. The Life Scout can always apply for membership with another troop, and then meet the requirement of "Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout". If your troop is the only troop in a rural community. Being removed from your troops charter listing does not stop him. He may apply to the District Executive to become a Lone Scout and still apply for Eagle Scout. He can still accomplish the goal of attaining Eagle Scout, though he would have to answer to a DE and Council Advancement Committee why he cannot actively participate in your troop. Good Luck and hopefully both you and the Scout will make the best decisions! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Just to add my thoughts. I like what Kudo mentione(and others commented) about the Advancement Coordinator. But before the AC, I would look towards the youth themselves. Unfortunately, it could lead to a Scoutmasters minute for everyone (as already mentioned) But in addition of the Advancement coordinator knowing the status of all the Scouts. There are Scout leadership positions of responsibility that should also know the advancement requirements and completions of their fellow Scouts. First the Patrol Leader should know the advancement status and requirements of their patrol. In addition to the Patrol Leaders Handbook (which explains how to do the job of the Patrol leader), is a lesser known pamphlet called the Patrol Leaders Record Book (34516), which records dues, attendance and advancement of the patrol members. Then the Troop Scribe is responsible for maintaining the Individual Scout record (34518), which records dues attendance and the specific line item advancement requirements. We know as a adults in our troop that we make occasional mistakes, trying to get back from work and get ready for troop meetings and campouts. We rely on our youth leadership to know what is going on, we are suppose to rely on our Senior Patrol Leader for keeping us up to date. After all the youth leadership is responsible for getting ready for campouts and events, as well as the program and advancement, with the adult guidance. So during PLCs and Scout meetings, we constantly remind the youth they are responsible for knowing the advancement of their own fellow Scouts. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Hal, Greetings! Its suppose to be a joke, a play on words.. "The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy." How strict are you with the uniforms? was the topic question.. "Absolute rigid flexibility", I've often heard it in Scouting and on rare occasion at work. Also known as "Semper Gumby". As a joke on words, usually means we have rules, but we are not always 100 percent compliant with the rules. I quiet often would hear "absolute rigid flexibility" and "Semper Gumby" in Wood Badge training. I've occasionally heard, "We are 100 percent by the book!", followed by a "Except for this one minor change, We are 100 percent by the book!". Then a day later I would hear, "Except for this minor change and that minor change, we are 100 percent by the book!". Then at the end of Wood Badge I would hear, "Except for all these minor changes, we are 100 percent by the book!" So my comment "The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy." was meant to add a little humor to my response. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Grayfeathers, Greetings! I immediately had my own opinion, then as I read further thru the thread. I shared the same or similar thoughts with most of our fellow Scouters who responded. I wouldn't compare what the policy of the previous Scoutmaster from five years ago, I would expect the majority of the boys would not remember him, maybe only the 17 y/o. I certainly enjoy seeing a fully uniformed troop. I to will get a jealous streak if I see a troop hiking and looking like a BSA troop. One Summer that I staffed as a commissioner, I saw a troop that would sing during each assembly. Their own original songs, and they sounded like an actual choir. But getting your troop in uniform. I agree with our fellow forum members; plus an addition. You need to get the "buy in" from the PLC. But even more, you need to get a "buy in" from their parents. The PLC may concur, it is a great idea to look like a team and be fully uniformed. But then the committee and PLC will need to get parents to go to the local Scout council office and purchase BSA slacks and shorts. Parents can be persuaded to purchase shirts and handbooks, that is the easy part. But telling a parent to go purchase a set of slacks or shorts. Some will, and some other parents will just flat refuse. The other funny thing is trying to tell a parent that a Scout may go thru at least two sets of shirts and two sets of slacks between 10.5 and 18 years of age. Some parents absolutely refuse to purchase their 17 y/o Life Scout a new Shirt before their Eagle ceremony. Imagine a 17 y/o 6'2" corn fed (almost an adult) Scout putting on a shirt his mother bought when he was a 9 y/o 3'6' First Year Webelos. The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy. It is a minority of Scouts and their parents that constantly violate our troop's uniforming policy. Imagine being an adult leader deciding to have a Scout at an event or calling his parents to pick him up or bring a shirt. (yeah right, figure the odds of a parent bringing a shirt to their Scout at an event) Just a few parents are confused why uniforming is a method and ask why their son has not been signed off for completing requirements if he was not in uniform. But those parents do not debate uniforming with the committee if their son does not have a Board of Review, because he didn't show up in complete uniform. Honestly. Here is how my troop appears. My troop is sorta close on complete uniforming. The first meeting of the month is a full uniform meeting, unless otherwise stated other meetings are Troop T-shirts and shorts. The PLC has agreed, any Scout shirt is acceptable, but "concert", violent or rude T-shirts are unacceptable. Our committee will not do a BOR unless the Scout shows up in full uniform (not half, not mixed, but full uniform). Our troop committee feels the Scouts should be fully uniformed at least a few times on their trail to Eagle. Still, we have one maybe two boys that will show up in "Megadeath" live in concert T-shirts, we remind the parents of the PLC policy to a "yes, he will wear a nice T-shirt next week", its a convenient lie to get out of the parking lot. But those families are the minority. Of course if you go to one of our local camporees, half our boys will be in full uniform, and half will were their Scout shirts with stripped shorts, plaid shorts, and gym shorts. Our COH and Eagle Court of Honors are when the Scouts look their best. At our camporees, they look good loading up the vehicles, but begin to look pretty sad by the campfire or morning assembly. My troop will never seem to achieve a 100 percent uniforming. At least committee, adult leaders and PLC are satisfied with a "close to perfect" uniforming. Hitting somewhere around a 90-95 percent success rate. So back to your question, How strict are you with the uniforms? My PLC is strict, my committee is even more strict. The troop adult leadership maintains rigid flexibility. We will inquire why a Scout is not in uniform, and remind the parents, month after month. But it is up to the PLC to keep their Scouts uniformed. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

oldisnewagain1, Greetings! Your younger daughter deserves the best, correct? Then, does your son deserve the second best??? Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

littlek, Greetings! I guess the bottom line is keeping the Cub Scouts adequately safe. My key word here is adequately. I would obtain a copy of the Camp Standards, to see if you would receive a yes/no/comments according to a specific statement. Below I found a link to the 2008 version. The visitation form is changed every year, with minor modifications. Now for my opinion. If we go overboard with safety, we would wrap the Cub Scouts in bubble wrap and have them shoot at tissue paper with cork rifles or rubberband rifles. The camp visitation sheet says that it is a certified range if it meets or exceeds the BSA and NRA standards. But how far does your visitor state that you need to exceed? The visitor is just grading yes or no and possibly comments on the visitation sheet. Its been a while since reading the pamphlet, but the rifle merit badge book allowed for a two man (two Scout) loading method and a Ball and Dummy drill. So that the shooter does not have to move from the firing position to reload the rifle, also so the shooter goes thru the shooting disciplines with or without a loaded rifle. Now Cub Scouts many times no matter how often you instruct them, will turn the rife around towards the waiting crowd. Sadly, it only takes 1 second to spin the rifle around; on the good side, it is only a BB rifle, the chances for a fatal accident are there but lower than 01 percent. So, I can appreciate the thought of having someone there to assist them in loading their BB rifle, and keeping them in the firing position (without turning around). As I read the Camp Standards aka camp visitation inspection form, the only people in charge of the youth or the only people that should be talking on the range is the shooting sports director, the range officer, or the range assistants. Allowing adults on the range quietly to load and assist their own Cub Scout seems that would be up to the certified Range Officer. The adult would not be in any leadership responsibility once crossing into the range. They would only serve as a rifle loader. My shooting sports director certificate expired about eight years ago. So, while I am knowledgeable, I myself am no longer considered certified. So I can only offer my opinion. I would welcome adults into my range as silent participants and rifle loaders, understanding that I or my range officer and range assistants are always in charge. I would concur with you littlek. If you have complied with the Camp Standard visitation form, then the visitation team is adding even more safety requirements that don't exists. Interpreting the writing of the standards is their job, adding to the standards is not their job. http://meritbadge.org/wiki/images/e/ee/2008_Resident_Camp_Standards.pdf Good Luck, have a fun range and keep it safe! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv (This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

click23, As a Scouter I say "Sweet!". I'm sold! As a parent, I would probably say nice, interesting. It looks great for the Webelos age youth and their parents. To sell them on bridging over and not AOL and leaving at the end of their Cub Scout tenure. It is a motivational video, and I think current Cubs and younger boys would get a kick out of it. Maybe a refresher to the 13-15 y/o's during NYLT and Troop Leadership Training. I love this video, but the question I have... Has it been field tested to the non Boy Scout 11 y/o and their parents? The BSA recruiting videos should be aimed at bringing in the 11 y/o boys hanging out at home, playing video games and the parent working in the office. Does this video do it? Maybe it does? I hope so! It would be sweet to see this recruiting advertisement (and similar videos) on television. FYI... for any aspiring Cinematography Merit Badge Scouts or Arts and Hobbies Bronze Award Venturers there is a Boy's Life Join Scouting video contest. http://contests.boyslife.org/engine/Welcome.aspx?contestid=5452 Another FYI. I don't know if anyone has commented on it. But an OA Lodge posted a video on youtube called "Get Your Brotherhood". It had me rolling. I think all Arrowmen should see it. click23, Good job to that young Scout in your council. Hopefully he keeps generating some good Scouting videos! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ASM915 and Fellow Arrowmen, If I can add my thoughts. If it is outside Summer Camp time frame. Most youth Arrowmen will only attend if an adult Arrowman drives them to the event. So then you not only need to be appealing to youth Arrowmen; but also appealing to the adult Arrowmen aka "the drivers". From my experience, If Arrowmen attend an OA social event, they will go out into the rain, mosquitos, snow, or heat to welcome new Ordeal members and Brotherhood members. The difficult part is getting a decent participation at an OA event. There needs to be something there to draw them out of their homes to OA. Or during Summer camp, there needs to be something appealing that draws them away from their campsite and merit badge homework, to an OA event. (Maybe an OA Ice Cream social). I guess its all in the sales technique. Can you sell OA to an average Arrowmen? Can you make serving your fellow Scout look appealing? Can you get the Arrowmen youth (Lodge and Chapter Chiefs and Lodge officers) to buy into it, and lead others to come to OA events and OA ceremonies? Believe me, I can empathize with you. I call it my 50/50 rule. (of course you've heard, Baden Powell called it a game with a purpose) I say, give me 50 percent hard work, and we will play XBOX Rock Band (or something similar) for the other 50 percent of the weekend. Sometimes that sales, doing a little bit of work and then having fun (pizza, ice cream, video games that the other Scouts don't get to enjoy yet). Plus, there has do be a similar appealing draw for the adult Arrowmen as well. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Let me clarify my position again. I did say that "we have an obligation to identify and report child abuse, neglect, and endangerment". There is a significant difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Also, there is a significant difference between the 10.5 y/o Tenderfoot and the 17 y/o Eagle. Do we run to the parents every time a Boy Scout uses a four letter word? Or could counseling the Scout Oath and Law resolve the discrepancy most of the time? A hypothetical situation.. I would also be concerned if the Cubmaster went and told the mother about her son bringing a porno magazine. Then the mother ask the Bear Cub Scout where he got the magazine at? The Bear Cub Scout shamefully states that he found the porn magazine with all the other magazines in the drawers in the desk, in his dad's office. Does the adult leader want to stick around for the fireworks and possibly difficult fallout afterwards. Maybe the Cubmaster should take the Cub to the DE, while the parents have a lengthy and damaging discussion about porn. I didn't say that we should keep everything from the parents. I did state that the adult leadership does "have a dilemma", determining what has crossed the line and when to notify the parents, or what has not crossed the line. Finally, some minor transgressions, may be sufficiently closed and resolved by reviewing Scout Oath and Law. Major transgressions, well, we know what those are and how to handle those. But what or where is the line that defines those transgressions. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

A porno Magazine at a Pack Meeting? I would have immediately confiscated the magazine to review it make sure it was indeed a dirty magazine. Maybe review it twice just to be sure. Maybe look at it a third time, just to be confident. I wonder if the young Scout had any more on him? I don't think Mrs Crew21_Adv would be too happy if I shook down a Cub Scout to confiscate his collection of porn magazines. Just trying to spread some humor on a difficult topic. We as Scouters can't predict or change what literature, magazines, or subscriptions families have in their house. We only have an obligation to identify and report child abuse, neglect, and endangerment. Unfortunate that it happened, but let's be thankful it was a Cub Scout that brought the magazine to the Pack meeting and not a parent. Common sense tells Boy Scout aged boys (11-18) not to bring those types of magazines on campouts. But common sense is not common. I don't know how they obtain them, but maybe once every two years, we will have a Scout, who thinks he can check out a Maxim or Playboy magazine at camp, without his parents ever finding out. Then the Scoutmaster, Assistant Scoutmasters have a dilemma; do they let the parents know about one magazine and risk permanently losing a decent Scout (who made a mistake) from Scouting? Or do you shame the Scout, review the Scout Oath and Law, and keep it between the Adult Leadership (two or more on a campout) and the one Scout? Hopefully, This Cub will never let it happen again. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv