combsc

Old course, new course preferences are just that - personal preferences. Bottom line is that all the training is still available but it has just been resturctured some with the creation of the outdoors skills training program. The outdoors skills training is now more closely aligned with basic leader training and that makes it available to more leaders and therefore more boys will benefit from it. Isn't that the reason we all are committed to training - for the boys? I am an not as old as some of the real old folks and I am not a younger person either. In my realtively short time as council training chairman we had to address some quality of training issues. We had reports that some of the trainning courses were not presenting the material in the course guide and some of the presenters were even saying "this is not how BSA recommends you do this but I think my way is better". This was not just coming from old folks, it was coming from new and old. No matter if we agree with it or not I think we have the responsibility to present the training in the BSA way. It does not hurt at all to add a little local flavor to the courses as long as the course structure and content are the same. This way everyone gets the same training and nothing important is missed. Also keep in mind that the material in the training guides teach leaders the same methods as the handbooks the boys use. Nothing is perfect and sometimes all the manuals are not updated at the same time and we have to work around that.

There are a lot of folks out there like my dad. My dad has the subconcious attitude that "he might not always be right but by god he is never wrong". He like a bunch of other folks do not accept the concept of "opions" because if you don't agree with them you are surely wrong. Like a lot of disagreements everyone may be correct in what they are saying in respects to one part of an issue. Experts in every walk of like constantly disagree. It goes back to the diversity training, take the best of what everyone brings to the table an make the best use of it. Those with closed minds have cut their potential for doing their best. The purpose of most meetings is to exchange ideas in an effort to come up with the best combination of them. I sure wish I would follow my own advice sometimes. It is kind of frustrating to sometimes feel I am so right that don't really listen to what others have to say.

Fat Old Guy has brought out how some folks don't like the role play comraderie type stuff in the course like patrol yells and the stong personal friendships that are formed in Wood Badge. I think they miss out on a large part of the training really trying to promote the patrol method used in scouting. I think it is a real hoot that during the first weekend of the course some of the guys have a hard time buying into all the enthusiasm stuff like patrol yells and totems but by the end of the course they have jelled with their other patrol memebers and have totally bought into the patrol environment and having fun with the group. That is much of what scouting is all about - being a kid and having a good time. Some of us at times loose site of the need for things to be fun in order to keep the boys in the program. If it is not fun to them they will not stay and/or get much out of the program. I think some folks do not like this kind of stuff after the practical part of the course ends because it can be viewed a cliquish. But to put in more modern day terms - it is a fun way to establish a support network that makes you feel free to call upon any of the guys at any time for sharing resources, information, ideas, and problems. Networking is pretty important for any leader. After the course the patrol members are mostly just close friends who have established some close common ties in something they enjoy and that is scouting.

I worked with a pretty good troop for about twelve years. After a couple of the adult leaders went to Wood Badge we saw what it could do for the troop and we really promoted it. At one time we had about 55 boys and seven Wood Badge trained leaders. Some things were harder having so many adult leaders actively working with the troop but it was real nice being able to miss a troop meeting or campout and feel like it would not hurt the troop. With the two deep leadership requirement it made is also easier when it was necessary to split the troop up for some variation in the programs for younger and older scouts. The one single thing that I beleive we did not do a great job with was the boy leadership. We had troop and patrol elections and junior leader training. We had a boy in all the leadership positions but the boys just did not seem to want the leadership roles nor did they put much effort into their leadership role. They would do ok but we had to constantly remind them they needed to lead and told them when they needed a PLC meeting, etc. After taking Wood Badge myself, I was really frustrated about the boys not trying harder in their leadership positions. From my own days in the Boy Scouts as a scout, I remembered the patrol organization and the boy leadership seemed to work pretty good. On a trip back home to Kentucky one year I went and visited with my old scoutmaster and told him about how frustrating it was because I remember how well our old troop worked. I will never forget the cute little look in his eye when he chuckled and told me "things were not always like you remember them". It was his way of telling me that our boy leadership was not as smooth and responsible as I remembered them to be. He made me feel quite a bit better about my role as an adult leader. I need to talk to some of the boys I have worked with who are now engineers, teachers, doctors, etc. and find out how they remember the boy leadership in our troop. Best wishes everyone!

No matter how bad, good, or biased my opinions are about one course being better than another, Wood Badge is still one of the best course in scouting. No one that I know of who has participated in Wood Badge has come away from it being a worse leader than before they started. There usually are one or two participants who do not buy into the role playing type of training and get very little from the course and even possibly have a worse attitude after the course. But even those folks were at least presented a great model for leadership even if they disagreed with the training methods. They at least know now how things should be done. I for one, never considered myself a great leader of scouts because I did not have enough patience with the boys and I unrealistically expected them to act more like what I though adults should act like. Looking back on twenty or so years in scouting as an adult, the kids acted like adults at least as much as the adults did. There were less serious problems with the boys than there were with some of the adults. "Do your Best" is a pretty good thing. Most folks are better at some things and worse in other. With the diversity that exists in every group we should use the best of what we have in our groups and the group will be much stronger than any one individual could ever be.

KoreaScouter, You could not be more right! I think maybe part of it is we all have our own experiences and the first time is always special to us. After that we can not fully appretiate the personal experiences that others have after us. When I took my course it was really special. The first time I served on staff it was really special. After that I started comparing back to the first experience and it really is not fair because it is never really the same. I think it is generally felt if not a formal policy somewhere that old farts like me should not be allowed to serve on more than a few courses and that is probably a good idea that even I agree with. The only reason I served on staff of the last couple of courses was I was asked and assured that they could not find anyone else. Best wishes to all you guys and gals out there that are still actively serving. I have been on a vacation from scouting for a year or two now but I miss working with the boys and camping. I am thinking I will find me a troop in need this next spring and see if I can make a difference again.

Bob White, I totally agree that the group did an outstanding job and the great course proves that. Knowing the caliber of the volunteers committed to training in scouting I think they could have done just fine by themselves without the paid consultants. I would have thought that the movie people would have let the BSA use the excerpts from their movies for free. I know there was a bunch of staff and participants who went and purchased the two movies for their own after the course. How much has the Blanchard Group been paid for all the courses offered so far? Are they still charging the fee?

The Wood Badge for the 21st Century course that I assisted with was over a year ago. National required that each person serving on staff and each participant must pay an "intelectual property fee". I was under the impression that the fee went back to the management consultants that developed the course and national took this approach so that they would not have to pay up front for the development of the course. This appeared to me to be like they were charging me (a staff member) to use their material so that I could make them more money buy charging the same fee to course participants. If I remember correctly, the staff voted on if we wanted to roll the staff's intellectual property fee in the the participant course cost. I along with every other staff member voted to pay our own fee so that we could keep the cost down to the participants. Another real annoying situation was that the staff guide sections for the presentations that were developed by the management consultants could not be copied and only the originals purchased from national could contain that material. I was particularly impressed when I was assigned a presentation to give and found out that the staff guide I was given did not have that section because it was a donated copy that was made by another staffer to save money. Maybe my irritation was caused because our council did not want to spend the money to pay for official copies of the course guides. If I remember correctly, national responded to my complaint explaining that they may drop the intelectual property fee in the future. That just told me that I was one of the lucky folks that got to pay for the course so that the chiefs at national could get their bonus for cutting costs. Please don't think that I shared this in any way with the participants of the course. I did the best that I could to assure that they were provided with the best training they ever received. My opinions about this stuff was never shared with the course participants.

I totally agree with Bob White. Wood Badge changes every year using feedback from every course's course director in an effort to keep improving the course. Like the old saying "The only thing constant is change itself". It would neat to see any movies that possibly captured any of the early Wood Badge courses with Baden Powell himself. I drove over 1500 miles (total) in six successive weekends to attend Wood Badge and loved every minute of it. I hope I don't dissapoint you Bob White but I was a Bob White also. Serving on staff of the Wood Badge courses requires at least three times the amount of time and effort as taking the course and usually about double the out of pocket cost of a participant.

Sorry guys, I did not intend to offend anyone or diminish what can be gained by anyone taking Wood Badge for the 21st Century. I strongly recommend the new course for any serious scouter. Much of the same leadership skills are presented in both courses but in the older course they were not presented as management development skills like they are in the new course. The older courses had few if any references to management consultants (even thought they may have very likely originated from them) and had many more references to the other current scout and scout leadership handbooks that were standard BSA issue. The new course is loaded with references to the management consultants. The constant bombardment with the pentagon logo leaves a strong flavor of a professional management develpment course. As far as the outdoor leadership skills - national has restructured the training by adding the outdoor skills training as a separate course that now is usually taken in conjunction the the Basic Leader Training. This makes this type of training more available to the leaders working with the boys without making the larger committment for taking Wood Badge. Moving the outdoor skills out of Wood Badge has also reduced the committment needed for the shorter Wood Badge for the 21st Century and this will also make Wood Badge available to many more people who were unable to make the kind of committment the longer course required. Over all I would have to say that I would agree with what national did because it basically has enabled more scout leaders to participate in the training that they need for their scouting jobs and that is definitely better than it was. Bottom line is that I still liked the old course better. If for no other reason because it was more traditional than modern. Either way, anyone that has seriously participated in any Wood Badge course (old or new) has gained much from it and that has helped improve the program for the boys and that is the whole reason for the training in the first place.

Participating in Wood Badge in 1988 was one of the best experiences of my life. Wood Badge then was for the leaders of scouts teaching the ideas of Baden Powell the founder of scout leader training. I have worked with about five Wood Badge courses with the last one being the first locally offered Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Please do not get me wrong - the new course is still a great scouting leadership course but it is more directed at scout leaders such as district and council leadership and not leaders that are actively working with the boys. Baden Powell's teachings have taken a distant back seat to the management consultants who developed the new course and put themselves up on the pedistal. I was also particularly impressed with being forced to pay an intelectual property fee to serve on staff to effectively even make the management consultants more money. Since they have removed much of the Baden Powell influence and most of the out doors training, they should have also dropped the Wood Badge Beads and the Name Wood Badge. In my very unimportant personal opinion, they should have changed the name to Advanced Scouting Leadership Training and used the Wood Badge for the 21st Century pentigon logo for the official course emblem.