CNYScouter

The same could be said that instead of a Boy Scout Troop couldnt it be just a school or church camping group? The benefits to using the BSA program are that it is effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth. The BSA is still the leading youth leadership training program in this country. Just as a Boy Scout Troop (or an outdoor Venturing Crew) uses camping and other outdoor activities as a focus to meet the aims and goals of Scouting a historical re-enactment crew or a youth ministries crew would use these as a focus to meet the aims and goals. If you look at the requirements for Ranger award you will see that when Venturing was created having historical re-enactment crews was thought of. One of the electives for the Ranger award is Outdoor Living History. I would think that if a crew chooses to do so, the other requirements for Ranger could be worked into the historical re-enactment crews program as well.

Is it OK for a Boy Scout Troop and a Venturing crew to camp together on a regular basis? Yes, girls are involved, and I am only talking about non-council/district events. There is a big difference between CAN a Boy Scout Troop and a Venturing crew camp together on a regular basis AND SHOULD a Boy Scout Troop and a Venturing crew camp together on a regular basis There is no rule against a Crew and Troop camping together on a regular basis; personally I dont think that on a regular basis is a good idea. I think there is nothing wrong to do this occasionally but a Crew should be functioning on its own with their own events. There is an indoor rock climbing place near us that does lock-ins for youth groups. Because the Ship is small in size their minimum charge makes it too expensive to do on our own and we will be attending with the Troop. How will a Crew forge its own identity and come together as a unit if they are always doing things as part of another group? One more thing, If a scout has joint-registration should he go as a boy scout or venture member? The Ship has two new recruits that are also members of a Troop. Their Troop is hosting the Districts Fall Camp-o-ree. The Ship will be attending and helping to staff and run events. They asked if they could split their time between the two units. I have told them that they needed to go either with the Ship as a Sea Scout or with their Troop as a Boy Scout. The reasons I said this are that they have duties to perform for the unit they are with. Trying to coordinate between two units what duties they will be doing will be too much of a task. As a unit leader I am responsible for the youth in my unit. If they are splitting time between two whos responsible for knowing where these scouts are and whos responsible if something should happen. It also will depend on the situation. In the case of the Rock Climbing place the ship will just function as part of the Troop and I dont think it will matter much if they go as a Boy Scout or a Venturer/Sea Scout. Some unit may not care but its my opinion they need to pick one or the other. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

I do like the idea of a Venturing Honors Program. One of the problems I see with COD is that you need to have a strong Venturing program in a council before this can be put in place and the youth members even thinking about it. I do think that this will need to be adult driven in the beginning. Unless an adult tells youth about this program I doubt very much it will happen on its own. I know there are a few councils out there with strong programs but I dont know if there is enough of them to make this happen. In my council and the councils that border us even have a VOA. Some of the Ship members have asked about this and I am trying to set up a Venturing Roundtable this fall as the first step to put together a VOA. I dont think that COD will take off until more councils build strong Venturing programs. As emb021 pointed out that this thing call Scouting was created by a middle class white male in his 50s! I do know that it will never happen unless one of us makes it happen Perhaps John-in-KC (or someone from another area with a strong Venturing Program) you can forge ahead, start this program and show us how its done.

Camp #1 is Camp Woodland. Camp #2 is Sabattis. Camp #3 is Camp Portaferry. I orginally wrote this because our council was going to sell off Camp Portaferry and I was wondering how our camps compared to other scout camps in size. The last few years it had very low attendance but our council did little to promote it. Others suggested we sell Sabattis as it's far from our population base and unaccessable in the winter. It it does draw many OOC units for back country treks into the Adirondacks mountains and for summer camps. Camp Woodland is used for Summer Cub Resident Camp. During the rest of the year between training and unit's camping or in cabins almost every weekend is used. It's been around 75+ years and there is no talk of selling this camp. Last year yt was decided not to sell the camp but they no longer offer a summer camp program. I just have heard rumors that its for sale again.

Its now been 14 months since the Ship was started. I have had little help from the district. My DE went with me to pitch the Ship to my COs board meeting and hung out at our first open house but I have got nothing beyond that. Some areas where I could have used more assistance: I would have had more meetings with the CO to explain the Scouting program. Again I would have liked an experienced person (a UC) to work with our CO to explain how things worked in Scouting and how to get a unit started. I assumed my DE or someone from the District would do this but the DE did very little, no one from the District did anything and everything was left up to me. We had an organizational meeting to put the ship together. Unknown to me the head of our CO invited a bunch of potential youth members and their parents to this meeting. As this was our first organizational meeting I really had nothing for them. None of these kids or parents ended up joining as I think they were scared off as we really had no plans. I think that if we had spent more time up front with the CO and had more involvement from Scouts this might have not happened. Helping to set up a Unit Committee. I had a person agree to be the CC, They filled out the application and even delivered it the next day to my house and I never saw them again. If I could do it again I would have had 3 or 4 committee meetings, hopefully with a UC, to help put things together. I would tell anyone putting together a new unit to make sure you have a committee together and have multiple committed adults, before even bringing any youth together. Even after 14 months I feel we are still in a startup stage. I am still struggling to get parents involved and getting a functional committee. I am making headway as I just got one of the parents to do popcorn. I think if I had a UC around to make sure we had everything in place before starting we would be in much better shape. I think that a District might be able to handle things better, even if they are short handed, if they have some commissioners to work with new units during the early stages and get them off to strong starts, even if the commissioners cant stay with the unit for the long term.

Unfortunately the Ship only has 2 youth members above 18 and neither is around much. Getting one of them to drive isnt an option. This is the first event the Ship has taken on the responsibility to plan and make it happen. Ive taken a step back so far and let them run with it and I now see this being a hole. When we sat down to plan going arranging enough transportation was one of the few tasks that really needed to be done. Ive reminded the activity chair for the event numerous times since then whats needed to be done. Hes given me a verbal list of who has said they want to go (why I know there is not enough drivers) but no money has been collected nor a written roster been put together to turn in to the event staff. One of the reasons things are coming down to the last minute because almost the whole ship has said they want to go but no one is willing to pay until the last minute. Ive seen this problem in every unit Ive been involved with. Until money is turned in and a roster is put together I dont know if this is a problem or not I need to decide what to do if the situation does arise.

The Ship is attending an event later this month and it looks like there may be an issue with not enough parents have stepped up to drive. The event we are going to is far enough away that the driver would most likely have to stay. I dont feel right in asking the 2nd leader going to drive as she is a member of our CO, has no kids in the Ship and is willing to pay her way otherwise. Do you cancel the event for every one? If not how do you decide who goes and who stays? How does your unit handle this? Money is due this week for the final head count and it may not turn out to be an issue but I would like to have an answer if this situation arises.

Doing a trip to Hawaii was on the list but with $1200 per person just for airfare put it out of reach. I found a couple of private surfing schools on the east coast but they cost $1500 to $1600 (plus transportation) for a week. Outside of Hawaii I have been only able to find one other BSA camp that offer surfing. Camp Fiesta Island in San Diego offers a one day side trip to learn surfing. The ship has looked at a camp in Florida that does offer windsurfing as an option but the airfare to the camp in San Diego isnt much more. I thought that in Florida or Texas there might be a camp that does surfing but I havent found one yet.

Are there any Scout Camps that offer Surfing as an activity? The Ship is looking at a week long activity for next year and expressed that they would like to learn how to surf. The only one I found on the net is in Hawaii and dont think we can afford this. I have found some private companies that offer a surf camp but they are costly also. Something on the east coast would be great.

Not all crews are outdoor and high adventure. There are many that are not. I have heard of crews that are choirs and marching bands, and do ham radios. There are Venturing crews that have drama for a specialty. There are Indian dance teams (many OA based) that are crews. I am sure there are religious based crews that are not outdoor and high adventure. Most of the Venturing Crews in my District are not outdoor and high adventure . Along with the Sea Scout Ship we have a crew that does civil war reenactments. We also have a golf crew. In the winter they meet at an indoor driving range. We used to have a computer crew. They would rent the training center at our scout camp, put together a network and play computers games all weekend. We currently have a small bore rifle shooting crew, pistol shooting crew, an air rifle shooting crew and skeet shooting crew. Gander Mountain charters an archery crew that shoots during the winter at their indoor range. Our district has a service based crew. You have to be an Eagle Scout to be a member. They get together a few times a year to do special service projects. We also have a special needs crew. Most of the members are over 21 and are mentally disabled. They do everything from going to the movies, being in plays and taking trips and do very little high adventure. There are a lot of non-HA types of crews out there.

I took WB out of council last September. The council is about a 2 hour drive from me. By the end of Dec. I had 3 of my Ticket goals finished. I received an e-mail just after the New Year from my Ticket Councilor saying that he wanted to get together and discuss my progress. He said that he would be getting in touch in a couple of weeks to set a time when his work schedule slowed down. I didnt hear from him. I finished the rest of my goals in mid-April. A couple of weeks later he responded that he would be near me on a certain date asking if I could meet him. He wants to do a face to face meeting before saying that I have finished my ticket. After I responded I got no answer for him for where and when. A month later (in June) I received another e-mail from him asking if I could meet him the first week of July. Again I answered where and when and got no response. I have since tried to e-mail him 2 more times since then with no response. (I have said to him I have no problem driving to meet him) I have tried to call him but he never seems to be home and according to him his work schedule is always changing. At this point I have gotten no feedback from him. As part of our ticket goals we had to write how we were going to verify that we met our goals. I have no idea if he feels that I have met them or I need to do more work to finish. He's never even responded that he got anything I have sent him to verify my ticket goals. I know people are busy but it seems that there should have been some time in the last few months where we could have met. At this point he doesnt seem real interested in meeting with me to finish my ticket. What options do I have at this point?

You should check with your local pool or swimming area if they will recognize BSA Lifeguard for a job. I think it depends on where you live. During BSA Lifeguard training this winter we were told that most places around here will accept BSA Lifeguard for a job position at a public (or private) pool or swimming areas. One of the young ladies in my class was taking BSA Lifeguard as she had a Lifeguard job at a local County Club lined up for the summer. One of the big differences between BSA Lifeguard and Red Cross Lifeguard training is that RC only teaches rescue techniques with a rescue tube. The Red Cross teaches that you never enter the water without one. Because in the BSA you may be swimming where a rescue tube is not available, like during a back country canoe trek, it teaches rescues with and without a rescue tube. My son just passed his BSA Lifeguard training on Friday!

I think that Eamonn sums up my feelings about this pretty good. Back when I was a Scout we used an advancement record book. This was a small book that had all the rank requirements in it where as you finished a requirement it was signed off. I dont ever remember showing this a t a BOR. I still have mine tucked away. A couple of weeks ago my son went through my Scout collection and I looked at this book. I was pretty much filled out through the Star rank, but after that it we didnt really use it much. I dont think the answer is that a BOR can do whatever they want. I do think that a unit can decide what -To make sure the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for the rank consists of. I dont think that any individual BOR member or an individual BOR should ask for something out of the norm for the unit. If one Scout isnt asked for a handbook I dont think because one person on the BOR wants to see a signed book they should be able to ask the next Scout for it. I would hope that if a Unit expects a Scout to show a signed handbook at a BOR and that Scout appeals to the districts saying that no where in the BSA guidelines says he has to show his handbook at a BOR, the district would side with the unit. I dont my situation is something that I need to appeal to district. I think a sit down is in order to decide what the expectations for a BOR in the Ship are before we do another one. Its times like these where having a UC would be really helpful.

I think allowing "Boy Scout" advancement in Venturing is a good thing. If I hadn't started a Sea Scout Ship my son would have dropped out of Scouts a long time ago. After losing interest I backed off on advancement and over the winter he decided to earn Eagle through the Ship. Even with all the issues we are having so far I still think it was a good decision. My daughter who just turned 14 has joined the Ship and my next youngest is looking forward to joining in a couple of years. With all the trouble we have had getting enough commitee members together for a BOR I was hoping we could do his with a combination of youth and adults. We always seem to have 2 committe members around and never a 3rd person. I am going to stick to having "adult only" BOR for Boy Scout" ranks but as far as "adults only" BOR for the Venturing side of things I disagree. The Bronze awards, Ranger, Trust and Quest do not have a BOR the requirements just have to be completed. But for other Venturing awards youth are involved in a BOR From the Gold award requirements: 9. After completing all other requirements, the candidate should prepare evidence of completion of the work and submit it to the crew Advisor. The crew president, in conjunction with the crew Advisor, should then appoint a review committee of four to six people including Venturers and adults. The committee should review the candidate's written presentation and interview the candidate to determine whether that person grew as a result of the pursuit of the Gold Award. The Silver award has similar wording for its review. For Sea Scouts Quatermaster rank procedure: Give the Quatermaster application for rank advancement to your Skipper, who will present it to the officers at their monthly meeting. As they review your application, they are primarily concerned with your understanding of the ideals of Sea Scouting as demonstrated by your participation in ship activities. Ordinarily, you will not attend this meeting. This has no adults involved in the review. When I took Sea Scout Leader Specialized training (I think something similar should be developed for each Crew Speciality area) the trainer said that a Ship should be doing a BOR for all rank advancement. This BOR should be comprised of both youth and adult members. Even though it is not specified he found that it made it easier for the youth to understand what this means if and when they have to do a Quatermaster review.

If a Ship/Crew has a member who is working on Boy Scout ranks, who sits on the BOR? For Venturing/Sea Scout awards the BOR is put together by the youth members and the BOR is made up of both youth and adult members. Is the same thing done for Boy Scout ranks earned in a Crew/Ship or does the BOR only have adult committee members? Can the youth in a Crew or Ship determine this? I don't remember discussing this in Venturing Leader training.

First to answer some questions or statements: My son is going to a camp that will be covering the aquatics requirements for Sea Scout Advancement so getting done at camp isnt a possibility. I would ask our Commissioner Staff to BOR but since our district doesnt really have one I dont think this is an option either. I don't think getting people from his troop is going to be much help. He wasn't with his second troop long enough form them to know hin very well and after 2-1/2 years away there are very few people left from his first troop that could sit on a BOR. I think the point is that if there is ever a dispute or question (such as verifying the Eagle application), the signed book is the final determinant for rank advancements Both Troops I have been with had advancement disputes for Eagle candidates between what the council had and what the Troop had the Scout earning. In none of these cases was the handbook used to verify what a Scout had earned but the Troops advancement record were used. Then how does the Board know a scout has completed the requirements! Directly from the training: In the advancement conference, you will assess the Scouts readiness for his board of review and his progress since his last Scoutmaster conference. It is appropriate to review the Scouts achievements and to discuss them without retesting. Of course, this may be the time for you to check his advancement record for the appropriate signatures. . I read this as it is the SMs responsibility, not a BOR, to verify that a Scout has passed all the requirements. If I am reading the training right that a Scout should never be in a BOR for rank advancement without the SM approval that he has completed everything. In all the responses what I am seeing is there is no set National policy on using a handbook to verify what a Scout has finished. A unit can use a wall chart or keep records in a book or on a computer and all are correct. It is up to each unit to set a policy on what it uses. I do agree that each Scout should be responsible for his rank advancement whatever method is being used. As far as verifying at a BOR that rank requirements have been completed it is also up to the Unit to set what it wants to use. For what I see in my situation mistakes were made in that the MC took that his Troops policy in using the handbook was National policy and expected every unit to do this the same way so no expectations were set for the Scout for the BOR. Also because the Ship had no policy set on this a verification from the unit leader (myself as Skipper) should have been enough to verify that all rank requirements have been met. I am not sure where we will be going with this. Since I don't see us doing any more Boy Scout ranks anytime soon I don't really want to spent a great deal of time on this. I may try to see if someone from our district can help do a BOR. This does lead to other questions but I think I will spin off a new topic.

From the Supplemental Scoutmaster Conference Training in the advancement conference, you will assess the Scout's readiness for his board of review and his progress since his last Scoutmaster conference. This should not be a time of retesting his competence in Scouting skills; someone has already attested to that. The Scout must have completed all of his requirements for rank before the conference can take place. Further down it reads.... A young man who is not ready to face a board of review (the last step in the advancement process) can be counseled if you sense a lack of Scout spirit or leadership. From these statements I don't think it is the BOR's responsibility to see if a Scout has all the requirements signed off in his book If he is in front of a BOR for Advancement it should be taken that he has them done and not have to show proof. If a Scout is up for an Advancement BOR it was the SM's responsibility in the Scoutmaster Conference to make sure they are signed off. I talked with my son about this over the weekend. Some points he brought up is that this will be the only Boy Scout rank BOR that the ship will be doing in the foreseeable future as he is currently the only ship member that can work on Boy Scout ranks. EBORs are done at the district level and although most Troops do an EBOR at the unit level it is not required. BORs for Venturing/Sea Scout awards and ranks are done differently. They put together and run by the youth but do have both youth and adult members on them. As some have pointed out we can use more committee members. It really shows why you need a functioning Committee, which is something I cant seem to convince to the other adults. Another thing my son brought up as to how unprepared this MC was for this BOR. Back in Jan. or Feb. I said to him that we were going to need a BOR for the rank of life in the next few months and if he could head it up. When the BOR started my son was asked about his PORs and this MC wasnt sure if his PORs (a Chaplins Aid in his Troop and a Boatswain Mate in the Ship) met the requirements. I think this really shows why it is important to get out and meet other units as there is no one right way to do things. I think this MC just assumed that all Troops do BORs the same way and has never talked with other Scouters on the way others units are run. This BOR was scheduled to be re-held this week with my son bringing in signed proof that he did the requirements. On Saturday the Ship held a work day. This CM told me he couldnt make it this week. N ext week my son is at camp and the week after he cant come as his daughter is doing a week at one of the military academies. At this point Im not sure when this is going to be scheduled again.

I have to say that this Committee member wasn't very clear on he was looking for but it seemed that he wanted everything. I have no problem if he wants to see a book with his Life rank signed off, but at this point I just see it as unnecessary as my son is the only youth that we will be doing this for and bringing his MB cards and rank cards should be enough. As we learned in basic training, the signed book is the official record. All other forms of advancement records are just duplicates. I have never heard this in all the times I have done SM training. I think that using the book and having a Scout get it signed off is the way to go but I have met very few troops around here that do this. Neither Troop we were with did this. Im curious; perhaps someone can tell in what manual or where in the training material it says this? I have been told advancement doesn't count until the advancement forms are turned in to the council office so it would seem to me that these are the record. As this is the Ships first BOR I guess it does set a precedent that this is what the BOR is looking for. The Sea Scout manual doesnt have a place to do this but I did find an advancement record to print out and get signed. Only one of the Sea Scouts have bothered to print this out and approached me to get items signed off so this will require them to do so. I have to say that this Committee member wasn't very clear on he was looking for but it seemed that he wanted everything. I have no problem if he wants to see a book with his Life rank signed off, but at this point I just see it as unnecessary as my son is the only youth that we will be doing this for. As we learned in basic training, the signed book is the official record. All other forms of advancement records are just duplicates. I have never heard this in all the times I have done SM training. I think that using the book and having a Scout get it signed off is the way to go but I have met very few troops around here that do this. Neither Troop we were with did this. Im curious; perhaps someone can tell in what manual or where in the training material it says this? I have been told advancement doesn't count until the advancement forms are turned in to the council office so it would seem to me that these are the record. As this is the Ships first BOR I guess it does set a precedent that this is what the BOR is looking for. The Sea Scout manual doesnt have a place to do this but I did find an advancement record to print out and get signed. Only one of the Sea Scouts have bothered to print this out and approached me to get items signed off so this will require them all to do so.

Every time I seem to get one issue solved another 3 or 4 more immediately crop up. Last night my son was to have his BOR for the rank of Life in the Ship. It is the first BOR the Ship has had to do for any type of rank (Sea Scout or otherwise). Currently he is only registered in the Ship and not with a troop. One of the ships committee members wouldnt hold the BOR because my son didnt have a Scout handbook with signatures on the requirements. The Troop the committee member is with requires this. The Troops we have been with did not. (Right or wrong I had no control over this). This Troop had the attitude that the Scouts will lose it if they are made to keep track so the Advancement Chair kept track. Even after telling him this he wouldnt hold it. It took 2 months for me to get 3 committee members to show up at the same time and now I have to try and get them again a 2nd time to do this. In fact the only record the Troop my son has done most of his advancement with (through Start rank) are dates of the Scouts BOR for rank advancement. I really dont have the time to go with him and back track to fill in all these dates just to please this one person when my son has a record for all his ranks, his service hours worked and his MBs and wont be able to get much more details than this. Considering this Committee Member is the only person besides me with any Scouting experience, I thought it would be a good idea to have them head up this BOR. With a small size unit its not like we have a large pool of Committee members to draw from for this. I kind of see this as a moot point in that I will be signing off the book and currently my son is the only Sea Scout that can do Boy Scout requirements. At this point he is only 3 MBs and his project away from Eagle and I just cant see the point going through the motions to have me sign off these requirements when the only paperwork that counts is the advancement report we turn in to council - make that I turn into council, as we dont have an Committee member that handles advancement and I will be doing it. As far as the Sea Scout Advancement each Sea Scout has a printout with the requirements that they keep and get signed. Im working to get more Committee members trained in how to operate a Scout Unit and do a BOR, but hes already waited over 2 months and its going to take a few months to get someone trained enough to do a BOR. Where would you go from here?

I would hope that Adults have a strong part to determine safety plans/respond to first aid needs/ etc./. I would like to see all units working towards Scouts do most of the above instead of deciding its easier for the adults to do it or that the Scouts are busy with other activities so the adults do it for them. The biggest thing that turned me away from Boys Scouts and into starting the Ship was that these units did not want to work towards becoming "boy-lead" and wanted to continue to have the adult doing everything. I can add a few things I really didnt like from troops I visited while searching for a new Troop to join a couple of years ago: Adults washing Dishes for the Scouts An SM planning the menu for a camping trip, collecting the money and buying the food. Adults arranging MB classes for the Scouts. Registered leaders not wearing any uniform to meetings Registered leaders that are Eagle Scouts who attend meeting on a regular basis that didnt even own a uniform shirt. An SM who planed the yearly calendar with no input from the youth (or any other adults). Adults require uniforming for various events. I do not like the idea of requiring youth to do stuff. I think you need to find ways to make them want to wear the uniform. Requiring Scouts to do things is the fast and easy approach but I think that to be really successful you need to create a culture in the unit which takes a great deal longer to develop. Sea Scouts wear Dress White uniforms. I have one and I have been encouraging the Ship to get them. The Ship just attended a regatta. Before going they were very reluctant to get Dress White uniforms They were the only Ship there without them, they are now looking into getting the Dress Whites, not because I am making them but because they now what to get them. I do want to add there are exceptions to every one of these. An example is that we have a county park that has winter cabins to rent to any youth group. From Nov. to March these cabins are full and book 2 years in advance. You need a credit card to reserve these. When you try to book these you often need to decide if you want the same weekend with a different cabin or switch weekends to get the cabin you want, if you dont make a decision right when you call the cabins are booked. I think there are exceptions if you have a young troop with little experience. They are going to need much more Adult Association than a troop with older scouts. Right now the Ship is still way more adult lead than I would like. This has been the most difficult thing I have been working on even with older kids. I think that the youth in every program thet have been involved with everything is done for them and getting them to take control is they just have no experinace with. Adults sit on Boards of Review in the Venturing/Sea Scout program youth member do still sit on reviews for the awards/ranks. Adults offer MB or T-2-1 classes for advancement. Almost every troop I visited had long term Scouters. In most of these Troops these people hung around teaching the younger Scouts which I think should be done by the older scouts. Most of these people have stayed on after the sons have left the unit and I would have really liked to see these people become WEBELOS leaders, where they should be teaching the youth and getting them to cross over into a Boy Scout Troop.

Thanks to everyones advice about the fundraising issue we were having. At last nights dinner cleanup almost the whole ship was in attendance. The no fundraising- no activates must have gotten through. The next issue is that the ship is about to election of youth officers. It seems that none of the youth members are willing to be the Ships Boatswain (Crew President). I have a couple of youth members very capable but even after talking with them they just aren't willing to take on this role. Our current Boatswain doesnt want to do it again as he stepped in when our last elected Boatswain quit and no one else would do it. Up until last week he was our youngest member and felt even though he was doing everything, he got no respect and didnt get much help from the other youth. I have also heard a discussion about selecting co- or even multiple Boatswains. I dont like the idea of co- or multiple Boatswain as this will just turn into me trying to keep track of whats going on and being the Boatswain myself. I don't like this idea as it's just not part of the Venturing/Sea Scout program. I am considering if they dont elect a Boatswain to let things fall where they may and step back and watch things come to a halt. We just recruited 4 new members (and have more on the way) and dont know if me stepping back completely is the right thing either. Where would you go with this?

My son stalled at Star over 2 years ago. Being in the Ship has sparked new interest and he finally finished the required MB's for Life about 3 weeks ago. He only has 2 Citizenships (community and world), Family Life, Personal Fitness and Lifesaving or Emer. Prep. for his Eagle. He has a partial in Emer. Prep. And will be taking Lifesaving (BSA Lifeguard in July) He has been discussing and looking into a project for Eagle He will be 16 in Nov. so I haven't starting pushing yet. But I know sometime in the near future he will need an extra push to get through the MB's he has left and I am waiting to see how much he gets done on his own.

I've also seen eggs cooked in an orange peel. I've seen eggs cooked in an onion. (also hamburger/meatloaf) Cut a large onion in half, scoop out the center and place right in the coals. How about Bacon and Eggs in a Paper Bag. or Foil Pan Breakfast Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil - Double and butter. Form into a pan shape. Beat 6 eggs (as if scrambling) Slice sausage links or use sausage patties crumbled (can substitute bacon, etc) Small onion, diced 5 potatoes, sliced thin Salt and Pepper to taste Combine all ingredients into the aluminum foil pan. Close foil over ingredients, making sure it is sealed tightly. Place on coals and turn frequently.

You need to burn the zinc out of the trash can before using. I saw a 30lb. Turkey cooked in one of these under 2 hours. When the guy took it off the stake he almost dropped it as the meat was falling off the bones. I have also seen smaller Turkey's placed on a rack.

The first time I drove for my daughters Girl Scout troop I got yelled at for taking off and not traveling together. I don't like convoying. Having to pull over a wait for people who didn't get though lights or get lost just eats up too much time and often it was in a pretty bad palce to stop. However I have had bad a experiance the BSA way when poor directions were given and everyone got lost on the way to the camping spot.