CNYScouter

First off, most parents like the one here won't take training, don't want to be a leader, just want to be a royal pain cause they are always right. You hit the nail on the head, nld. This parent has been involved with a Troop for almost 10 years with an older son (stayed on to help out once he aged out) and hasnt taken a single training session or has never registered as a leader. She was asked to be on the ship committee but is too busy. The first time she interrupted and starting complaining I told her we could use more help and offered her the job of CC. Her idea of helping was to suggest that we stop doing outside activities so we didnt have to plan and do so much. Her husband agreed to be on the committee, refused to take any more scout training and has pretty much been AWOL ever since. On the bright side her daughter will be off to college as early as the 2nd week in July and I dont expect to see Mom much after this.

Up until the last couple of meetings the few parents that have stayed at Ship meetings have pretty much sat in the background and keep comments to a minimum. I now have a mom, whose child has been in the Ship since the start, has been interrupting and is questioning everything. After the first time she did this she was told that if she had any questions or issues to talk with me in private but did it again at the next meeting. During Venturing Leader training it was suggested to ban adults from Ship/Crew meetings and have them meet in other room. This parents interruptions are beginning to effect ship operations and not having them in the same room would be a start. There are other issues going on with this parent which I will try to do another post about later. What wasnt made clear if this included myself (as Skipper) and Mates or just parents?

Yes, he has BSA Lifeguard, Professional Rescuer CPR certification and Red Cross Basic First Aid certification (all required in NYS to be a Lifeguard). To be hired as a Full-time life guard you need to be 17 and hes only 16. My son had his interview yesterday. Because he is a first year staffer they require that he works 1/2 the time in a program area and 1/2 the time in a service area. They want first year campers to see both sides of camp staff, not get bored in one position and they feel it helps return staff so if someone takes a job in a postion they dont like they wont be in it all summer. The two people giving the interview really pushed working as kitchen staff and commissary staff. (The camp has both patrol cooking and a dining hall option). When they asked him were he was interested in working he did say the waterfront and he was told that they only had one opening for a 16 year old Aquatic staffer and that was usually offered to a returning staff member. He was offered a position working in the Trading Post for the first half of camp which was his first choice in the service area. After looking at the schedule they found that they hadnt filled the one Aquatic staff position for the second half of camp so was offered the waterfront. I was asked to sit in the interview because they wanted me to be sure I knew how remote and isolated the camp is and that my son will pretty much need to bring everything he needs as there is not a short drive into town (over an hour) if he forgets something.

In the description of the Adult Association method it states that Adults serve in a shadow leader capacity. How would you describe this to a new Venturing Leader? How about some examples that show a leader acting in a shadow leader capacity. We have some new Committee members and would like some different ways to explain their role.

One thing about this interview that I am not sure of is that they have requested that Mom or I be there. I think it may be beacuse they want to be sure that both him and I understand that our camp is a long drive and he needs to stay the whole summer. It is also very remote and even though they take staff into town a couple of times and once he's there he really has no where to go. My wife has jokingly asked if I think he can live a whole summer without his cell phone and video games. But I guess in todays world that might not be all that uncommon.

From my understanding of the Venturing training the use of consultants from outside the unit is part of the Venturing program and should be encouraged. I have a parent who has suggested that I stop looking at outside activities and has said that most of the Ship members only want to do advancement in Ship meeting. When I find out about any activities that I think the ship might be interested in doing I pass that information along. These activities usually cover the requirements, such as First Aid, CPR and the swimming requirements, where we do not have the experience (or qualifications), time or resources to do these only during meetings. One of the other complaints is that I am not giving enough time before the event and that if its not planned at least 6 months out I should ignore the activity. I would really like to have these on the schedule months in advance but often I get these only a couple of weeks before they take place. Most of these have very limited enrollment and are usually offered only once a year. The people who are running these outside activities are unwilling to come to our meetings as they just dont have the people to just run these courses for us, so there are very limited opportunities to get these requirements done. With the different schedule everyone is on there is no way I can keep track of them and know if everyone is available or not. Would you stop sending out information about these activities if they on a short notice? My thinking in using consultants in this manner is that they are like a MBC and if a Sea Scout wants to pursue this its up to them to use this opportunity to do so. Is my understanding of the use of consultants in the Venturing program correct? Also my son often is interested in these activities. If I get them and dont send them out and he goes to them, I think this might upset even more parents. I think a lot of this comes from a lack of knowledge of the Venturing program and from a Troop program that does everything in house (and does almost everything for the scouts). (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

The Sea Scouts hold a training weekend at Camp Round Meadow in the Catoctin Mountain Park in Thurmont, MD. every January. Catoctin Mountain Park is about 20 miles south of Gettysburg. http://www.nps.gov/archive/cato/recr/roundmea.htm There are also other camping options available at Catoctin Mountain Park.

My son has an interview this weekend to be on staff at our councils summer camp. His first choice is to work at the waterfront but that position has an age limit of 17 (Hes 16). He was told to put this down (by last years Waterfronts directors father) as his first choice as they can have two 16 year old staffers if they dont have enough older scouts apply. (He was also told that they are short staff this year). His second choice is archery range assistant. I think this is neat because my SM when I was a Scout is now retired and goes up to camp every summer and is the archery range director. He's been to this camp a few time and I went to this camp as a scout but I never worked as summer camp staff. I think this will be a great opportunity for him. What advice would you give?

RememberSchiff wrote: I have never seen a "fitting in" problem at a scout gathering. I dont know about fitting in but Scouts do notice the lack of uniforms. The first Troop my son was in went to the council Camporee a few years back. Not a single Scout brought their uniform. When I asked the SPL what he thought of the Camporee he said that it was embarrassing that they were the only troop there without a uniform. The second Troop had an anything goes policy about uniforms. One of the older Scouts told me that the Troop didnt go to Camporees any more. One of the reasons was they were usually the only Troop there that didnt wear uniforms. I havent pushed the idea of dress white uniforms to the Ship. I started out requiring a Ship member to have the Blue Chambray shirt/denim pants I suggested that we should get dress whites but the Ship members werent really interested. That was until we went to a Sea Scout event where we were the only Ship in attendance without them. They are now in the process of obtaining dress white uniforms. Not because I want them but because they want them.

A week back Eagledad said in one of his posts: Through my years of experience, I observed the two most difficult skills for scouts to develop are "communication" and "delegation". This is another area where the ship could use a big improvement in. Ive been using the Ask your Boatswain (or SPL)" when I am approached with a question but it still hasnt sunk in yet. What tips can everyone give to help scouts to develop "communication" and "delegation" skills.

Since I posted Finished my Ticket What next? I contacted my CD. He responded that he had gotten the paperwork from my TC, recorded it, and gave it to his SE. His SE had forwarded it to my councils SE. My council has no record of ever getting it. Both my SE and CD said they would look into it and have it resolved in a couple of days. Its been well over two weeks and I still havent heard anything. I just sent e-mails again to both my SE and CD but havent gotten replies yet. A lot of what is going on may have to do with my council got a new SE Jan. 1 (old one retired) and is in the process of moving its headquarters to a new location. My CD has said to go ahead and schedule a beading ceremony. But, I have reservations about doing so: 1)With no one knowing where my stuff is I am afraid that if I do schedule a ceremony and when the time comes my stuff is still missing. 2) I have no idea how to put together a beading ceremony. I assumed that I would have gotten something from my course about how to do this but I have received nothing.

Sea Scout manual #33239C page 84 under The Eagle Award where it says that a Boy Scout can make Star, Life and Eagle in a Ship if they have reached 1st Class when in a Boy Scout Troop: Personal conferences, conducted by the Skipper and the board of review, for each progress award must be reviewed by the Ships Committee. As a Ships committee is made up of adults I interpret this if a Sea Scout is doing a BOR for a Boy Scout rank through the Ship the BOR is made up of only adults. From page 83: If you and your skipper agree that you are ready to advance, your (rank) application will be forwarded to your ships bridge of review. This group includes members from both the Ships Quarterdeck and the ship committee. Eagle or Quartermaster must be approved by the ships committee and the district or council advancement committee. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

Men by Martin Mull & Steve Martin (1977) It's great to be on a ship with men and sail across the sea, oh, We don't know where we'll land or when, but it's great to be with men. 'Cause men can sweat and men can stink and no one seems to care, oh, We'll throw the dishes in the sink and clog the drain with hair, oh! (And clog the drain with hair, oh!) Men, men, men, We're a ship all filled with men, So batten down the ladies' room, there's no one here but men! There's men above and men below and men down in the galley, There's Butch and Spike and Buzz and Biff and one guy we call Sally! (And one guy we call Sally!) Men, men, men, We're a ship all filled with men, You'll never have to lift the seat, there's no one here but men! We're men and friends until the end and none of us are sissies, At night we sleep in separate beds and blow each other kissies! (And blow each other kissies!) Men, men, men, we're a ship all filled with men, So throw your ******* overboard, there's no one here but men! Amen (prounounced "Ahhhhh, men!")

The Ship was gong to go to an indoor driving range for an activity in March but we just found out it closed and is out of business. They are now collecting ideas for another activity. In keeping with Scouting is a game not School spirit, what types of activates can you suggest for team building? They would like to keep this to a one day activity. We cant do things like a COPE course as early March is more like winter and it is later in March it is usually cold rainy and muddy outside. I have plenty of team building games but would like to suggest an activity that does this naturally.

Instead of lowering the age for Scouts to 10 perhaps WEBELOS can be split with the first year being run by the Pack and the second year run as an offshoot of Troop program. Earn the WEBELOS badge as part of a Pack and the AOL as part of the Troop. Back when was involved with a Pack I noticed that the WEBELOS dens that were run like a Cub program usually had very few crossovers and the Dens that were run more like a Boy Scout patrol had almost every Cub crossover into a Troop. It just seems that even with training my Cub Leaders dont understand Boy Scouts and thus dont really understand how to run a WEBELOS den. I see a large number of Troops with adults hanging around long after their sons have aged out and don't want to the Cub program. Running a WEBELOS den would be a great place to utilize them.

As the Ship only has teens I don't know about younger Scouts but the youth wanted to go surfing in Hawaii. There has also been talk about chartering a 78' sailboat in the Bahamas. I personally have a few trips that I would like to do: 1) Iceland holds a Scout Jamboree every few years that I would like to attend. 2) Go to one of the Summer Camps on Catalina Island off of California. 3) Do the Chisholm Trail Adventure at the Texas High Adventure Base from the Longhorn Council. 4) Seabase

I have seen complaints on this message board that todays Scouts want to do is sit around and play video games (or cards) and get out be active. I have seen complaints on this message board that todays Scouts dont know the basic scout skills. I have seen complaints on this message board that todays Scouts dont know team work and exhibit any leadership skills. I have seen complaints on this message board that todays Scouts do not have pride in the Troops anymore. If I remember right camp wide games usually require teamwork and leadership, utilize basic scout skills and get the Scouts from sitting around (playing cards or Video games) and out doing something. Winning the TAE builds pride in their unit. Is it always OK to do something just because the PLC decided to do it? In working with youth, even the older teens, they often dont see the big picture on why activities are done or why the BSA does things a certain way. Maybe the old SM had a bigger picture (or different vision) in mind.

IMHO one of the biggest problems the Scouting program is facing and one of the biggest reasons for loss of youth membership is the Adult-run Eagle Mill. Maybe its just around here but it seems that the majority of Scout Troops are the classic Adult-run Eagle Mills. When I think about how many of the youth today are in this type of program that the future of Scouting is not looking all that good. The first change I would like to see to help eliminate the Eagle Mills is a requirement be added to earn the AOL for the WEBELOS and his parent/guardian attend a WEBELOS to Scout Transition program. The WEBELOS to Scout Transition program would have a syllabus prepared by National that outlines the Boy Scout Program. This would cover the basics of the troop program such as the Aims and Goals of the BSA Troop structure, what boy-led is, how the advancement program works and how it differs from Cub Scout advancement, how the Merit Badge Program works and other general. I think a big part of this program would include how each Troop is different and that everyone should look at multiple Troops to find a troop with a good fit for them. I just seems to me that most Cub Scout parents have no idea of what the Boy Scout program is or what it should be and this would be a way to get this information. I think if more parents understood the basics of the Scout program it would help to eliminate the Eagle Mill. The 2nd change I would like to see that if a MBC is also registered as a Troop leader they are not able to sign off a MB for Scout in their unit One thing I see with most Eagle or Merit Badge Mills is that outside of summer camp all MBs are done with MB Councilors that are only MBCs for their own Troop.

NE Region Seabadge is tentatively the 3rd weekend in October on Cape Cod. Details and registration packet will be out some time next month. I think it would be great if our council got involved with a WB cluster. But from what I have heard the WB elite still run our course and wont even consider joining a cluster. As far as snow, we are way below normal with lots of bare spots. However hour north of here got almost 48 in. last week with most of it coming down in one night.

Sorry for the confusion I should have typed TC instead of TG. I planned on making the calls but wanted to know if the time I have been waiting to hear something was normal. I've been working my next "ticket" since I actually finished my goals last March. My TG was not my TC. Myself and one other person in my WB course were Venturing Leaders as was my TC. He was also the TC for the other Venturing Leader. I have had little or no contact from anyone in my WB course. When I talked with my TC in December he did say that there were only two others beside myself who hadnt gotten their beads. I didnt even get invitations to the rest of my patrol members beading. I took this in another council and with my experience I would not suggest to anyone to do this. It just seems that no one was really interested if I finished my ticket or not. It just seems that since I was from anther council and not around I was forgotten about. The lack of response has really diminished my WB experience and at this point I feel like brianbuf and just want my beads mailed to me. I dont think Ill ever get the chance to serve on WB staff. I dont know many people from this other council. From what I am seeing I dont think my council will be doing another WB course for quit some time. Weve only done WB 3 times since 1994. It was almost canceled again this fall as only 28 had signed up. We havent done an SM/Outdoor skills training in 1 years as no one is willing to be the CD. Our last Cub Leader training only had 1 person show up. No one showed up for the last Venturing Leaders training. I dont think we will have enough trained leaders to even hold a WB course for many years. And Eamonn - Sea Badge I will this year if you will!

I finally connected with my TG a few days before Christmas. We discussed my ticket goals and he said that I finished my ticket within the 18 month deadline. He then told me he had paperwork to complete and that I would get something from National within a couple of weeks. Its been almost 6 weeks and I havent heard anything. I thought maybe the SM might send me an e-mail saying congrats but nothing yet. What should happen next and how long does it take?

The water activities the Ship did last year: They started with a swim test at the local indoor pool in late spring On Memorial Day weekend we went to the Nygard regatta which has sailing, swimming, canoeing and rowing as part of the competition. Every Thursday evening from Mid-May thru Mid-Sept. we small-boat sail (Laser and Sunfish) (and weather permitting) 2 weekends were spent at my summer house on one of the Finger lakes were we swam, boated, went kayaking and canoeing, and went tubing and water skiing. In August we went to the NE Region Sea Scout Sailing Championships. At this we had one team qualify for the Koch Cup races, which is the International Sea Scout Sailing Championships, being held at the Naval Academy this summer. As we are chartered by a Sailing Club some of the Sea Scouts participated in the clubs weekly races held on Sunday afternoons. Myself and another Ship member got BSA Lifeguard certification. This year we have another member that wants to take this. In putting the ship together I have a similar story as Bobwhites. Our Chartering Organization had been trying to put together a youth sailing program for years. They even went as far as buying a fleet of small sailboats but they really had no idea where to go from there. In the 1 years since we chartered people have donated 2 Sunfish, a 19 Flying Scot and a 28 Hunter Sailboat, all of them were just given to us to use, the people didnt even want to use them as a charitable donation. BW - I would be interested in more details about the 'Weekend on the Water' event. This sounds like something that would work of us.

OGE wrote: I might point out that Venturing does not have Roundtable meetings Then why is there a Venturing Roundtable Guide? From www.scoutstuf.org Venturing Roundtable Guide A guide to planning a successful Venturing roundtable. Includes "how -tos," activities/games, and program features. Item: 34342

Right know I am pretty sure when the question is asked OK, where do we go from here? How do we all do a better job in the future? The answer this clique will give is to hold elections early to get themselves into the top positions in the Ship. At this point none of this group has shown any effort in running the Ship and fulfilling their roles. They want the title but dont want to put any effort in. I also dont think it right to allow elections to replace the current Boatswain early just because some else has decided they now what to do it. Especially when he was the only one willing to take on the role when elections were held. Even though the current boatswain is struggling with leading the ship, He has made an effort to attend training and events to improve his leadership skills but its pretty hard to lead when no one is willing to put in an effort to follow. I dont want to tell the Ship members what to do but I also dont want to give them the option of new elections as they had the chance to run and were not willing to do so when given the chance.

It seems that a clique has formed in the Ship with some of the youth members. We had 2 new members join in the last few months which now has the majority of the ship members in one High School and the rest all coming from different schools For an event last weekend duties were assigned at the Ship meeting. Between the time of the meeting and the time we left this clique got together and made changes without consulting the Ships Boatswain. I think they made these decisions not to be mean to the other members but made them without any thoughts of the consequences nor how it made the other youth feel when they had to do something they were not prepared for. The Boatswain wasnt told until we were in the car on the way down. Because they switched duties without telling everyone some of the ship members were unprepared. These changes were also made without my knowledge also. (and I didnt find out until later that weekend) It seems that one of kids in this clique has decided he wants to be Boatswain and is trying just takeover this role. He has another position in the Ship but has done nothing to learn the duties of this position and has done little to fulfill the responsibilities. Also to be a good leader you must be good follower and I have yet to see any of this group or him be a good follower. He is also trying go around the election process. The reason the current Boatswain has the position is no one else wanted it (twice). This has become a problem as the youth outside this clique are going to leave if this continues. (and they told me so). One of these outsiders is my son and if he quits I will be stepping down as Skipper (which pretty much means the ship will fold). He is not ready to do so yet but if this happens again he wont be sticking around. I can see what B-P is talking about in natural gangs, but this group is not following the chain of command nor is working as a team and is isolating the rest of the ship members. If we had a few more members I would split the Ship into 2 crews but we just are not at that point yet. A discussion needs to be done at our next meeting. What would you say to this group with out sounding bias towards my son? What do you do to break up this clique? A discussion is also in order to the youth that wants to take over. What would you say to him? (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)