CNYScouter

This may have been discussed before but I have a question regarding Soliciting money to buy material for an Eagle Scout Project. Our District has a guide for the Life to Eagle process. In this it states: Donations of materials or supplies may be requested. Funds (cash) may not be directly solicited. There are people on the advancement committee that are going as far as saying that a Scout can not accept cash donation, even unsolicited. An example is if a Scout asks for a donation for material and the person offers a cash donation instead they must turn it down. From the ACP&P (pg. 27) Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials needed to carry out the project. Donors to Eagle Scout projects must be made aware of what entity is benefiting from the project, and that it clearly is not the Boy Scouts of America. Any funds raised for an Eagle Scout project that are not used for the purchase of project materials must be returned to the donor. From these there is no mention of material only donations nor is it very clear about cash donations solicited or unsolicited. Its my understanding because a Scout does the Eagle project outside the sphere of Scouting (ACP&P pg. 27) the guidelines for Unit fundraising do not apply and he can solicit funds and accept cash donations for an Eagle Project. I am understanding this correctly?

The online NLE - "This is Scouting" - is now up on the BSA E-Learning site. Scoutnut put this in another thread but I thought there would be enough interest to put it under it's own heading. Thanks Scoutnut! (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

Do any of your districts have any equipment to use at District Events (Camp-o-rees or Klondike Derbies), Roundtables or Training? I am talking about things like a First Aid kit, clip boards, easels or stands, stop watches and other small items that are almost always used at these types of events. Our District has none of this kind of stuff and it seems that we are always scrounging for these items (or trying to borrow from troops) to use at District events. How does your District handle getting these things for events?

Take a look at the Supplemental Training module on Scoutmaster Conferences found at: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/TrainingModules.aspx ...These functions are not easily performed if a Scoutmaster delegates a Scoutmaster conference to assistants. In a boy-lead troop, the Scoutmaster does not assert his authority, but guides and counsels every Scout so that the troop can function well and serve the purposes of Boy Scouting. The Scoutmaster conference is one of the primary ways the Scoutmaster does this. In large troops, delegating this function may be necessary, especially when large numbers of Webelos Scouts are joining the troop. In these cases, an experienced assistant Scoutmaster can fill in to conduct the Scoutmaster conference. Remember however, that this first Scoutmaster conference is vital to the new Scout's development. Even in a large troop, a Scoutmaster should not delegate a conference with any candidate for Star, Life, and Eagle. ...

Currently I have: 1 Venturing Uniform (w/ belt and socks) 1 long sleeve Boy Scout shirt 1 short sleeve boy Scout Uniform 1 pair Boy Scout pants (w/ belt and socks) 1 Sea Scout working (khaki) Uniform 1 Sea Scout Dress (white) Uniform I have a least my shirt from the 70's with an Eagle Badge on it hanging in a closest but don't remenber if the pants are there (but the field cap is). The red beret is long gone as our Troop hated them and only got them to go to Jambo and told Mom to feel free to give to anyone who wanted it.

I was at a Troop Committee meeting (helping with training) where an interesting situation came up. There is a Pack with 3 WEBELOS ready to get their AOL. Only one will be joining the Troop but the parent of the other 2, who have made it clear they will not be moving on to Boy Scouts, want the full crossing over ceremony done by the Troop. The Troop gives any boy joining a handbook, Troop Necker, slide and shoulder loops. The committee was split on what to do. Some wanted that if they are not joining Boy Scouts they shouldnt be doing the crossing over ceremony. Other said that if the parents wanted the full ceremony they should plan and run it themselves. What was finally settled is that the Troop would include the WEBELOS in the ceremony but the parents had to supply everything else as the Troop wont pay for the items for a boy that is not joining the Troop. What would you have done?

I am having a disscusion later in the week about how this actiity is going to run (ie. how the rope will be attached and safety equipment) My 2 concerns initally were the qualified instructors (not sure if the person wanting to do this one) and the safe area (it will NOT be in an established climbing site or facilty). I think that this activity should be replaced but others putting this activity together feel that as it's not a rock climbing activity and just a hanging rope the Climb on Safety gudelines do not apply.

Would a climbing Rope, basically like gym class, a large rope w/knots, suspended 12-15 off the ground, be covered under the Climb on Safety rules? Climb on Safety seems to be focused on Rock climbing and climbing walls. This would be an activity stations at an upcoming camp-o-ree and I want to be sure we are following the G2SS.

Goshen Scout Reservation has a Road to Ranger program that runs 2 weeks where a Venturer can earn the Outdoor Bronze and do most of the requirements for the Ranger award. The web site says they running it again in 2009. I dont know much about this program as I heard about it from a Venturing Leader(actually a Sea Scout Skipper)from the National Capital Area Council.

OGE - what you are saying is my stance on this issue. The disagreement is coming from the SM that is saying there HAS to be 2 adults at every station and our Venturers can't be on their own as it violates G2SS. The issue of Venturing Youth "Boy"and Boy Scout "adult" only effects 2 so I think that can be worked out. I don't see why this is even an issue. Between the older Scouts in this Troop and the Venturing Crew there are over a dozen "youth" that are not only First Aid, CPR and BSA Lifeguard Certified but they are also certified at Wilderness First Aid Rescuer level. It seems that I have no problem trusting these youth with being to handle any emergency but their SM does.

The District Venturing Crews (and some older Boy Scouts) have offered to run the events at our District Camp-o-ree in May. I have offered to coordinate this effort. This has a Backpacking/Hiking theme where Patrols will be using Map & Compass or a GPS to locate stations on a map and hike out to each station where they will have some type of task to perform using basic Scout Skills. These stations could be up to a mile away from Camp-o-ree headquarters. There is one station with climbing involved which will have adults helping but the rest of stations they will be doing things like First Aid, Lashing and a station shooting water balloons at targets with a 3 person slingshot. The SM of the Troop associated with my sons Crew is telling me that these stations need to have 2 adults at them with the Venturers/older Boy Scouts as it violates the G2SS and the 2 Deep Leadership rule. I disagree with needing adults at all the stations as 2 Deep Leadership doesnt apply. I have been asked to clarify this as it seems that reading the G2SS isnt enough for him. I normally would just recruit the adults but the Venturers have made it pretty clear that they want to do this themselves and do as much as than can to keep adults away and let the Scouts do things on there own. What does everyone think - Is it a volation of th G2SS by having only Venturers man these remote stations? Since this is a District event who would be the person at the District level to contact?

Packs Summer plans include: A Pack camping Trip in June. The local Pro Baseball team has a Scout night with free tickets (usually in June) In both July in August we have community fairs with recruitment booths and we will be doing a picnic dinner at a couple of local parks. We are also putting together a Chasing Waterfalls program. As we have a lot of waterfalls in the area, any Cub that visits a certain number of waterfalls over the summer will receive a patch. Both of the parks where the picnic dinners will be have short hiking trails to a waterfall so they fit right in. We may also man the Scouting booth a few days at the NYS Fair right before Labor Day. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

"Damn the Rules! Call it an experiment!" - Lord Baden-Powell I think this quote is no longer applicable. After 100+ years is Scouting still an experiment?

I think the CM should butt out of the den business. Isn't one the main responsibilities of a Cubmaster is to work directly with the pack trainer, Tiger Cub den leaders, Cub Scout den leaders, Webelos den leaders, den chiefs, and pack committee chair and members to make sure that all dens are functioning well? It would seem to me that this falls under his responsibility. The CM and CC of our Pack are a husband (CM) and wife (CC). She has told me that she is not going to deal with this situation and is leaving up to her husband the CM. If the CC is willing to accept you as the new DLs, then you should register and act like DLs and begin planning meetings and activities. I wouldn't have posted this if they were willing to accept my wife and I as the new DL's which hasn't happened. This will only happen if I can convince enough parents to split the current Den and make a 2nd Tiger Tiger Den. (This is how it was worded to me.)

Over the weekend I had a chance to talk with our CM again about the lack of a Den schedule in my sons Tiger Den. Right now we have only one more Den meeting scheduled, its this week, for the rest of the year. So far this year we have had only 5 Den meetings and three trips, with both Den meetings in Dec. canceled. For these meetings more than half the time or date was changed at the last minute (with in a few hours) of the meeting. Another 2 or 3 meetings we were given less than a 24 hour notice of the meeting. On multiple occasions, my wife and I have asked for a Den Schedule. The DL keeps promising to send us one but we still havent seen it. I discussed this with the CM/CC a couple of weeks ago but I hadnt heard from them from them since. He said that he hadnt got back to me as he has been trying to contact the DL but the DL doesnt returned his phone calls or emails (and hasnt since September). The last time he even talked with him was at the Pack meeting the first week of Dec. The Jan. Pack meeting was our Pinewood Derby, our DL showed up just long enough to run his twin sons cars and then left. Feb Pack meeting was canceled due to weather. This DL doesnt show up to Leaders Meetings. When I heard that the CM couldnt get a hold of the DL, as suggested by posters, my wife and I offered to take over as the Tiger DL. Here is what the CM wants me to do: Put a schedule together for the rest of the year and then call a Den meeting and see who shows up. I can then ask if any of the parents want to switch to my schedule. If I can then recruit enough boys to have 6 in the Den he will split the Den. What do you think of the CMs plan? The Pack doesnt have a UC and the CO/COR are hands-off so getting help from them isnt going to happen. And I have also contacted my DE and have numbers for a couple of other Packs if we decide to find another Pack.

There is nothing to say the boys can't move to different patrols as they desire, nor is there anything stopping them from being a NSP and staying together as long as they wish as long as they maintain at least 6 members. Stosh - what happens in your Troop when a Patrol doesn't maintain 6 members.

So which do you want? Do you want to find a new Pack? Or do you simply want to vent about the lack of a Pack to transfer to, and use that as a reason to pull your son out of scouts altogether? I am looking for other ideas on ways to find a Pack. And actually I am trying to find a reason to keep him in Cubs but it's becoming more and more difficult to find a reason to keep him in. I would normally go to Roundtable or a District Event find another Pack but It tough when no one attends. There art a couple of reasons I don't want to go through the DE. 1) The CM/CC of the Pack I am in now work closely with the DE. At this point I don't want them to know. I have an older son in Venturing and a month or so ago I was trying to find out contact info for all the Crews in the District. The DE had me contact the District chair, The District Chair had me contact the District Commissioner, the DC sent me back to the DE. None of them could get contact info. This Fall when I was looking for Pack the District didn't have a DE and was told to contact District Chair/District Commissioner. They told me to contact a Pack that had folded 5 years ago. I ended up getting a few contacts from the District Trainer. I don't have much confidence going this route. You can help to fix the den/Pack you are in now. Go around the den leader and organize your current den. Talk to the other Tiger Teams, and come up with a rotating meeting schedule with every Tiger family taking turns putting together, and running meetings (this is called Shared Leadership). Let your den leader know when/where the meetings will be. I have been trying to go this route for over a month. The current Den has 9 Cubs from 5 different schools. I have asked the DL for a contact list but he keeps saying he's working on it but hasnt produced it. The CM/CC have told me that they are going to put together a parents meetings to discuss this and the other issues with the Den but that hasn't happened either. In the meantime, you can also work with your Tiger at home to complete his Tiger rank requirements. We've done that. So far since Sept. the Den has had only 5 Den meetings and 2 Go-See-Its so we did things on our own. I'm trying to make things happen. When it got to the middle of October and he hadnt had a Den meeting or even had a Den Schedule I am the one who pushed to get things started. When in the middle of January and we hadnt had a Den meeting since the first week of November nor did we have any scheduled I had to contact the Den Leader to find out what is going on. He sent a schedule out with 3 Den meetings on it. Hes said that he would send out an updated schedule for the rest of the year but I havent seen it yet.

Due to scheduling issues (actually the lack of any type of Den schedule) my wife and I are considering moving to a new Pack. Ive talked with the CM/CC (a husband and wife team) about this, but they are not moving very fast as I first brought the lack of Den meetings up to them over a month ago. Even though they have told me they have major issues with this DL they dont seem to Overall the Pack isnt bad, has issues /problems as every group does, but not having set Den meeting times (or even knowing when Den meetings are) have just become too difficult for us to manage. So here my dilemma How would you go about looking for another Pack under these conditions? 1) The DE is new with less than 3 months in the district/council. If I ask him hell send us to the Pack we are currently in. Ive already looked at other Packs around us and either the meeting conflict or they just dont have a good program. I would like to keep it quiet that we are looking and the CC/CM have bee working pretty close with this DE and it would get back to them. 2) Roundtable The CC/CM of our current Pack were asked to take over as the Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioners. This isnt the problem; the problem is they have yet to present a single topic because no Packs are attending Roundtable. 3) We have a Klondike Derby coming up with separate activities scheduled for Cub Scouts were I was hoping to go and talk with some Packs. The CC of our current Pack is running it. Its next weekend and not a single Cub has signed up to attend. 4) As our school no longer has a Pack I talked with the DC about what Packs where in the area. He really had no idea about any of the units and couldnt even get me contact info. I spent almost 2 months looking at Packs around us earlier this year and I have to say I wasnt impressed with any of them. I would look at another District but the closest Pack in another District would be at the minimum hour drive each way. I am being to think that its time to look for other activities outside of Scouts for my kids as I just cant seem to find units that are delivering what I want out from a Scouting program.

This year we are using a school cafeteria. No charge. Because we want to use the kitchen we have to pay to have one of the kitchen staff to be there. The Pack also hs to pay a janitor (overtime wage) if we go past a certain time. Cost - Cubs and any registered leaders are free - others $4 in advance/$5 at the door. In the past with my older sons Pack, we used a local businesses cafeteria (on a weekend) for free. It was cool place as they have an artificial creek running through it with bridges. The Pack also used an American Legion Hall. Not only did they give us the room for nothing, they also gave us free soda. For a couple of years with big popcorn sales my older sons Pack rented a room at a local college. It was held on a weekend in Feb. during a long weekend when there were no classes It was pretty expensive as we had to have the collage caterer it, but they prepared all the food and supplied collage students to do setup/cleanup, all we had to supply were the decorations and entertainment. I dont think for any of these the Pack charged more than $5 per person.

a .pdf of the 2008 Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures guidebook can be found at: http://www.gwinnettbsa.org/downloads/2008AdvancementGuideBook.pdf On Page 24 it says for Eagle Palms, the review is conducted by members of the troop committee.

Try this link for Instructions for Homemade Backpacking Gear http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html There are plans on how to make backpacks, shelters, stoves, cookware, sleeping items and other things. I've been thining about trying to make a Hunters Lean-To or often called a "Whelen" Tent.

Eamonn wrote: I'm not sure what is on the dump? The Dump is a web site that has .pdf's of older Scouting book and had become one of my favorite resources for ideas. They do have copies of all the old Gilcraft Books (written in the 20's & 30's) http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/scouts.html You can also find other book on pioneering. You will have to scan the titles to find them. Check this site out.

There is a web site that contains .pdfs of many of the early handbooks, works written by B-P (and others) and some bios of B-P Its called the "The Dump" - Resources For Scouting http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/scouts.html Click on Other on the left hand side. Some of the titles you see are: The Young Baden-Powell 1961 - By Arthur Catherall E.E. Reynolds book on Baden-Powell and the rise of the Boy Scout Movement - 1944. The Wolf That Never Sleeps. The Story of Baden-Powell. The Wolf That Never Sleeps. 1900 by Harold Begbie. The Chief Biography of Robert Baden-Powell by his personal secretary of 27 years. Originally published as the 'Piper of Pax' in 1924. This version revised by the author to include B-P's life between 1924 and 1941 This is just a few that could be used.

Thanks for the answers but the amount sounds about right. I think the cost for OA members for the weekend was around $20 (includes 1 years dues). As I don't have the letter in front of me but some of the items listed were: 1 years dues $ 8.00 Food $ 8.00 sash $14.00 flap $ 4.00 I know that the handbook (don't remeber the cost) and a few other items were also included but I can't remeber them all. I am also looking forward to this weekend. I was in OA as a youth (Brotherhood) but never got involved as an adult due to my son never having the chance to be elected so I will rejoining(?) and attending also.

When my son joined the Crew he is currently in he also was jointly registered in the Troop that it is an offshoot of. He was elected the OA this year and last night he got his letter inviting him to the Ordeal. The OA is something he was always interested in but his previous Troops didnt hold elections (and he wasnt eligible as a Sea Scout) so hes pretty excited about going. I was initially taken back at the cost for the weekend ($45 for early sign up). After reading the letter and seeing what the fee covers and what he receives (the letter had a complete list of what the fee covers) and to me the cost is not that bad. I heard a couple of the other Scouts grumbling about the cost but I dont think its out of line for what he is receiving. I am curious on what is the cost for an Ordeal weekend in other lodges?