CNYScouter

At the last District meeting it was announced that our council is dropping its Learning for Life division and eliminating all the paid positions (I think we have 3) associated with it. We were told that the reasoning behind this is that most councils have the DE handle LFL units. I just think it has to do with the bottom line and getting rid of salaries. Not a lot of happy campers in the district as it now has to support a bunch of new units but they do not participate in FOS or popcorn or do much else with the traditional units. This has also greatly increased the work load of our DEs as one of the people that was replaced, their only job was to book professionals (Doctors, Lawyers) into the schools. This now falls into the DEs responsibilities. I have to ask how can LFL be a separate entity if the BSA (DEs) are handling it? Do any of your council have a separate LFL division or does your Des do it all?

There is a Supplemental Training module "Geocaching to Promote Scouting" you can find a link to it at: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TrainingModules.aspx The module briefly describes some examples of geocaching games for Scout groups.

There are new requirements for Boy Scout ranks that take effect on Jan. 1, 2010. There has been some confusion is our District over when a Scout starts the new requirements In this months Scouting magazine it says: Note: If a Boy Scout is working out of the old edition of the handbook, he may continue using those requirements until he completes that rank. Then he must move to the new edition. I dont have a copy of the new BS handbook does it state this in there also? Is this statement anywhere on www.scouting.org ? Also is there anytime limit to how long a Scout can work with the old requirements? We had a Council Commissioner tell us that a Scout had until Dec. 31, 2010 to work on the old requirements and they then must switch to the new requirements. Does anyone have a link that shows this? The reason I am asking is that we have a unit leader who is insisting that someone at our council office told him something different than the above and we want to get the correct information out to all our units.

Hmmm....has anyone in your pack completed BALOO training? didn't anyone know that cubs don't tent camp below 40 deg. F? I always thought that this was determined by each council and there is no set temperature

Check out "Eagle Court of Honor Book" by Mark Ray. This book has lots of ideas for Eagle ceremonies. You should be able to get this through your scout shop as it is available on www.Scoutstuff.org www.Amazon.com has it also

But I reckon from CNY's last post that what's really goin' on is that CNY isn't correctly understanding what his district/council is askin' for or how they really work. I think that one of the big problems I have run into in our council is that we have 7 Districts and our Eagle clerk all working off of there own set of rules. Each of them will tell you that their way is the correct way its done. How can one understand what is being asked for when you get a different answer depending who you ask? Awhile back during the Tweeking the program discussion someone posted (I couldnt find the exact post) asking that isnt the Scouting program flexible enough without making up a program on their own. I see similarities in this topic that you could ask this same question with. The ACP&P is pretty open on the how/what/why an Eagle project is approved. Councils and Districts have a lot of leeway to do things that fit into a Councils or Districts program. The same with an EBOR. Lots of latitude on a how these are held and conducted within a council or District. But the procedure for letters of reference is pretty specific on the steps to follow and even allows some local option if a Scout is required to send out a form letter or not. Is this not flexible enough? As a Leader we are told to not add to the Advancement requirements As a Scout trainer I am asked to stick to the syllabus. But we should give this a pass because its for Eagle or just because its volunteers and theres nothing we can do? My son Birthday was yesterday. He hasnt heard anything yet about his EBOR. Hes hoping that he can do it when the EBOR meets again right before Thanksgivings.

...and lets toss is the Veterans Day parard being promoted by our council and he Cathalic Scout Retreat (that got canceled) that was also on the Web site and the Wilderness First Aid course being held the same day You would think that some one would look at the council calendar before scheduling an event

I saw this type of event at a Sea Scout regatta - the mystery ingrediant was "SPAM" Most of the Sea Scouts had never heard of it before. Once they figured out what it was they came up with some pretty impressive dishes It's easy to store; comes in a can and is already cooked so under cooking it won't make some one sick

Heres an update- I suggested that my son contact the DAC about his concerns about the reference letters and the App signature. I also suggest he contact the SE asking the same questions. So far no response from either. When by 8:30pm he did not get a response he gave a call to the office manger of the summer camp where he worked. This person is the DAC for another District in our council and does the Life to Eagle seminar every week during summer camp. He told my son that the Eagle Clerk should have stamped the date on the application he turned it in and his letters of reference do not have to be in by his birthday. So far we have been told 4 different procedures by 4 different people none which match up to the 12 steps from Life to Eagle in the Eagle Project workbook his Crew leader told him to follow. Everyone seems to be following there own set of unwritten rules. He received an email for one of the people he asked for a reference. She is the program director at the summer camp where he worked. She was in no big hurry to send in his reference as the district she is in does things completely different. My son is completely frustrated with the whole process and cant understand why everyone has a different set of guidelines even in our own District.

My sons crew quickly went from a having very experienced older members to having young and inexperienced campers. This weekend with the help of some of older scouts from a troop the Crew is doing a Scout basics weekend which is covering most of the T-2-1 outdoors skills. I have been asked to do a cooking demonstration and as part of this will be using a backpacking stove a Jet Boil I am looking for a recipe that uses ingredients that I can purchase and use right off the shelf. I want to do more than just ramen noodles. I also do not want to just buy a prepackaged backpacking meal as I dont think it really teaches the youth to think about other options

AMulls- The 12 steps from Life to Eagle are in the Eagle Project Workbook which is now required to be used for Eagle projects has the complete procedure we have been discussing and is the same as shown in the ACP&P. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-927.pdf I personally dont have a problem with having the Scout send out a form or letter requesting a reference letter. I do have issues with requiring the reference letters to be in before the council will sign that they received the Eagle App/Project Workbook and placing end-all-date for when the letters need to be in are required when it spelled out very clear what the National guidelines are. This entire issue for me started when a couple of people on our district advancement committee told me that my son couldnt earn Eagle in a Crew. I have a problem when I am told what National Policy is when its suits a persons (advancement committee) needs but ignored for their own made-up policies.

Then in Number 7 it says the application, Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, and references will be returned from the council service center to the chairman of the Eagle board of review so that a board of review may be scheduled In no where in Number 7 it says that it must be reference letters nor des it say all. If the CAC or DAC contacts a reference by phone there would be nothing to return. I think this is put in to make sure that reference letters stay confidential. My son turned in his Eagle Application yesterday again another concern came up. The Eagle Clerk will not sign as receiving the application until all the reference letters are in. As of yesterday only 2 (of 5) were in. 2 others have told him they did send it in. The last one, from a religious leader, is the one that has him worried. Our Church doesnt have a full-time priest and is being run by a Board of Directors. Its been over a year and half and they havent found a replacement yet. My son doesnt know anyone on the BOD (and neither do my wife and I) My son took conformation classes last spring and asked the person who ran this for the reference letter. Hes a really nice guy but extremely unorganized and not very reliable. It took 5 months to complete the 6 week conformation classes as he was always canceling and rescheduling often at the last minute. My son didnt know who else to ask. I advised him to contact the DAC and our SE and express his concern about this last signature. With his birthday tomorrow theres not much time left.

In response to BrentAllen: According to The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle in the Eagle Project Workbook (these are also in the ACP&P) it is not the councils (paid professionals) job to contact the references. It is already in the hand of volunteers, the council advancement committee, to make direct contact with the reference(s) listed on the Eagle Scout Rank Application on its own, by follow-up letter, phone contact, or other methods as it chooses. The candidate shall not be required to make a follow-up contact with the reference or submit other reference names. This wouldnt amount to hours and hours for a volunteer but only to the references that do not send in a reference, which should be very few in numbers. There are a few reasons why it really bothers me about the procedure our district has for Eagle Reference letters. My son dragged his feet about his Eagle Project and sending out his reference letters. Hes 18 on Nov. 12 and did his project and sent out the Ref letter requests 2 weekends ago. When he was told that all his reference letters had to be in by his 18th birthday he was going to scrap the whole idea of getting Eagle as he didnt think that all his reference could get the letters in on time. I told him to get the requests out and he could deal with any issues after his birthday. I have to wonder how many other Scouts have done this. Most parents dont know or bother to learn what the procedure is and would have no idea that could appeal the fact that a Scout was denied an EBOR because they didnt get a reference letter in. Another thing that bothers me about our districts procedure is that very few people know about it. Our District has documents that outline their steps from Life to Eagle. In our District each troop is supposed to have an Eagle Mentor who understands the Eagle project and the process for getting the Eagel paperwork in. Not a single Scout or leader in my sons Troop/Crew have ever seen the District documents and the Eagle mentor for my sons Troop/Crew is on the District Advancement Committee. All the scouts are told to follow the steps in the Eagle Project workbook. How can a Scout follow the procedure when very few even know it exists?

In some areas this is far from being cleared up. At our Scouting University over the weekend I had the chance to sit in on a Life to Eagle program for adult leaders (no scouts were present). This was being run by the DAC from my district and a DAC from another District in our council. Both of these districts follow the same procedure for letters of recommendation 1) Scout supplies names and contact info on Eagle App. 2) Scout sends form letter to reference requesting letter. 3) The scout must periodically check with the Eagle Clerk at the council office to see if all the reference letters have been sent in. If not, the Scout must contact the person to see why they have not sent in a reference letter. 4) A Scout may have to supply an alternate reference if they can not get the person to send it in. 5) The Eagle Clerk at the council office will not contact the DAC until all reference letters are in. 6) All reference letters must be in by the day before a scouts 18th birthday. After this was presented I said that this was not what is on the Eagle Application. Here is the response I got: There is some controversy in the council about the procedure for letters of reference. However, This is the way we (meaning both DAC) are interpreting the procedure and this is how it is staying. It was not allowed to be discussed further. As a note earlier in the day, while discussing my sons eagle project, I was told that our council has a new CAC as the old one has been AWOL for some time (a couple of years). One of the items the new CAC has been asked to tackle is the lack of consistency between Districts in the whole Eagle process not just letter of recommendations but mainly concerning Eagle projects. There has been a case where an Eagle project was turned down in one district and different Scout presented the same project, for the same CO, and it was accepted by another district. It was turned down by the first district just because someone on the Eagle project review committee didnt like the CO (and yes they are a 501c3 non-profit). I was told that the person selected as our new CAC is a strick "by the book person" so well see what happens in the next few months

A Den Chief may also wear the trained patch if they have completed Den Chief Fast Start and Den Chief training

I didn't realize what things are costing in other parts of the country Yearly Dues: $40 ($20 in Sept. - $20 in Jan.) Registration - paid by CO (youth and adults) Monthly campouts - $10-$12 for food - unit pays any rental fees Summer Camp - went up to $300 for 2010 (Some leaders are free depending on amount of Scouts goings - others pay $100 for a week) Any other special trips are paid for by the individuals going. Part of all fundraisers go into a Scouts personal account to use towards aqny of the above And we hear complants all the time about how much things cost around here!

Promotion for our scouting university this year (and last year) was very lacking. The course catalog, schedule and sign-up sheet can out about 3 weeks ago. I didn't see a single mailing or email about it until yesterday. A place to have it wasn't even secured until late September. I know the problem - but I am not in any type of position to do anything. A few years ago it was decided that the hosting any of our major training events, like Scouting University, would rotate between our Districts. Not all the districts bought into this. The last 2 years the District that was to host Scouting University did nothing and the training committee ended up throwing something together at the last minute. For a council that wants to create a "culture of training" we are not doing a very good job at creating one.

This may be a dumb question... but was sign-up mandatory? Or in the past, have people just kind of showed up and sat in? My guess would be that there's a crew out there with the adviser or CC forgetfully sitting on a handful of registration forms that they said they'd turn in. And how many crews are we talking about in your council/district? The last time I checked- back in May - we had around 30 Crews in our council. Since then I know of 6 or 7 new Crews that have been started. The Venturing classes are open and designed for Venturing youth and adults so there should be plenty of attendees. We have a big discount if you sign up in advance vs. signing up at the door. In the past weve tried holding training sessions with mandatory signup by a certain date not enough signed up in advance so they were canceled. In looking over the list of sign-ups neither person signed up are in Venturing one is a District Commissioner - the other is an ASM. I am teaching Venturing Leaders Specific, for one person if necessary. One big problem as an Instructor I have to supply all the material for the classes (as do all the instructors). For Venturing Leader Specific there are quite a few handouts I need to make copies for. (I can go to the council office to make copies only if I take time off of work to go there during the day.) I dont mind supplying my own for people who actually show up, but making a bunch of extras just in case the money adds up. My gut feeling told me to do what most of you suggested contact the instructors and give them the option to come or not.

Not zero Attendees but very little For our Scouting University this Saturday I organized the Venturing courses. I just received the sign-up list as of yesterday only 2 people signed up for any Venturing classes being taught and one of these is for Venturing Leader Specific (all day course). With 16 Venturing classes being offered most have no one signed up for them the ones that do only have one person. I am very surprised that only one person signed up for Venturing Leaders Specific. Our Council is in the pilot program for mandatory training and we have a lot of new crews that have been started since it was last offered in the spring. In the past we have seen 100 to 125 people sign up at the door but most are for Cub Specifics and the few other National courses being offered so I dont see many more coming in for Venturing. When I did this 2 years ago the Venturing classes had at least 5 people in them and one had almost 25. Here my dilemma: All the instructors for the Venturing courses are driving at least an hour and one is driving 3 hours to get there. Would you contact the instructors and tell them not to come or have them come and hope some one signs up for the class? The Council training Committee wont be happy if I do this but there was very little done to promote Scouting University this year. I know that other events where moved opposite Buy my concern is that if I have the instructors show up and no one takes their class they will be reluctant to do it in the future.

If it's about taking the time to stop and look at how the unit is doing? Where it is going? And seeking ways that might help make improvements? Shouldn't a UC being doing this every month and not just at recharter time? I think that unit performance and rechartering are 2 different issues, even though there are items that cross between the two. Our DE took the time and met with every COR or IH for every unit in the district last year. Outside of money and numbers he doesn't have any idea to know how a unit is doing or any ways to make improvements - that's the job of a unit commissioner.

Our District recharters in March (charter runs from April to March) Our District does the same as jet526. Recharter packets are availalbe at R/T. At R/T there is a mail box, well a box with hanging folders in it, for each unit. The DE brings this to R/T. Flyers, info and recharter packets are placed into each mail box. Any Leader from a unit can pick up items from the mail box. Any units that did not pick up the items in their mail box the UC takes them to deliver to the Unit. Since R/T are not very well attended I would say less than 10% arepicked up at R/T

This is not an uncommon problem with Venturing Crews. Many Crews are started by a group of friends and do not want to add outsiders to the Crew. Once the initial group ages out or loses interest the Crew folds. Here are some other ideas: Call your council office and ask for the LFL (Learning for Life) director. LFL does an activities interest survey in the High Schools each year and you should be able to get names and addresses of anyone listing camping (or whatever topic(s) you pick. You call also your DE and ask for names of Scouts that dropped out of Scouting that are of Venturing age). Send all these an invitation to a Crew Event (I wouldn't do an open house or just a meeting but an activity)

I ended up switching Packs and becoming my youngest's Wolf DL this year. All are new to Cubs except my son. For Den meetings take a look at the Fast Tracks on Scouting.org They are a good outline for Den meetings. You'll have to add a few things like games and crafts but they are a great start. Using these I think it takes 12 meetings to make the Wolf badge (without doing Bobcat) I wouldn't rush these cubs through just to get done by your Blue and Gold. My son's DL did this with the Tiger badge last year and he really did'n't get much from it. Make sure they are doing the requirements and learning something instead of just signing off - even if it takes a month or two longer.

I dont think there is much you can do. My son made life in July 2007 and hes had his MBs done for Eagle almost a year now I pretty much said nothing until his 17th Birthday last year. He has said that he wants to go to college through ROTC. All the recruiters have told being an Eagle Scout is a big plus to get a ROTC scholarship Hes had offer to help with his Eagle project from a couple of teachers, his Crew Advisor, SM, Committee Chairs from both Troop and Crew, the troop Advancement person and even some of the District Advancement Committee. He has spent the last 2 summers working at our council camp. One of the staff is the DAC for another district in the council he didnt use that opportunity either. Up until this point nothing I have tried has worked. He received a scholarship to get SCUBDA certified we told him we would pay the rest if he got his Eagle done Hes asked about going to Seabase for the OA SCUBA program told him sure get your Eagle done. I really think my son got it into his head that he was going to be a last minute Eagle. Last year about this time, an older Scout; his Crew advisors son, did the same thing. He got his application into the council office hour before they closed on his 18th birthday. I know my son looked up to this Scout and is just following. I know over the last couple of weeks, on two different occasions, two younger Scout leaders (mid to late 20s) pulled him aside and talk with him. Both had done the same thing as he did and neither made Eagle. I dont know what was said to him but it seemed to light a fire. I just hope he didnt wait too long.

Our district has a Mentoring Life to Eagle guide. If any one is interested here is a link to a copy: http://www.cnyscouts.org/districts/oneida/Mentoring_Life_to_Eagle_2008-10-19_PUBLISHED.pdf There is also a shorter version that says the same thing: http://www.cnyscouts.org/districts/oneida/Life_To_Eagle_Quick_Start_Guide_2008-07-09_PUBLISHED.pdf Here is the section on Letters of Reference: Requirement #2 of the Eagle Scout Rank Application asks the Scout to identify certain individuals who know him personally and would be willing to provide a letter of recommendation on his behalf. 1. As soon as the Scouts project proposal has been approved, the Scout should begin the process of soliciting his letters of recommendation. A sample request for a letter of recommendation, including instructions for the person writing the recommendation, can be found in Appendix G, Instructions for Providing Letters of Recommendation. It is suggested that the Scout provide a stamped, pre-addressed business size envelope along with his request to enhance the likelihood of a timely response. 2. Letters of recommendation are to be sent directly to the Council Service Center, and not handled personally by the Scout at any time. 3. Verify receipt of the required letters of recommendation at the Council Service Centerby calling the Eagle Clerk (Reference 11.2, Important Contact Information below). 4. Contact individuals who have not yet mailed in their letters. It may become necessary to find an alternate person to provide one or more of the required letters of recommendation. If this becomes the case, the Scout must update his list of references shown on the Eagle Scout Rank Application [Requirement #2]. 5. Letters of Recommendation must arrive at the Council Service Center before the 6. Scouts 18th birthday or the Scout will not be able to proceed with his Eagle Board of Review. 7. Plan Ahead! Do not wait until the last minute! I know there are a couple of things listed that contradict the National Guidelines. Back in Jan., after I was told that my son couldnt earn Eagle as a Venturer, I mentioned to the DAC that I saw other discrepancies between the Advancment Committee Guide Book and our districts documents. Our Advancement Committee doesnt seem to be in any hurry to correct them.