click23

No sure where else to put this, as it deals with Regions and Areas. In the Winter 2008 issue of "The Commissioner", two new commissioner positions were announced: "New Regional/Area CommissionerPositions Approved At Octobers meeting of the National Executive Board, positions for regional and area commissioners were approved. These two positions were created to support councils in the areas of membership, unit charter renewal, and training in support of commissioner service. They will assist in supervising the activities of commissioner service and preside at any area meetings where council commissioners are in attendance. They will support any council or joint-council commissioner training. They will encourage councils to provide immediate orientation for commissioners, frequent basic training, and monthly learning experiences for all commissioners. They will provide direction for councils to improve their unit-to-commissioner ratios, the conducting and tracking of their monthly unit visits, retention of youth and units, andprogress toward achieving Centennial Quality status." I think this will give a little more push on the council commissioner to make sure the commissioner service is operating properly, well at least hopefully in my council.

Separation of church and state does not apply here, BSA is not a governmental entity. To even join the Boy Scouts a parent must sign the application, which includes: Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership. The twelfth point of the Scout law is "a Scout is reverent". Is appropriate to as a scout at a Eagle Board of Review if he believes is God, Absolutely! Mind you this does not have to be a specific God, doesn't have to be mine, doesn't have to be yours, but what they would be refering to is the scouts God.

Here is an OA flag, I have no idea where they got it though: http://www.roswellrotary.net/newsletter/newsletters/8.10.06.pdf

Here is the link: http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-02.htm

Thanks talen. That is what I was looking for, and welcome to the forum.

I have voiced my objection to the way my chapter handles youth protection, and I have gotten no where. In their eyes even though some of the "youth" are over 18 they are still considered "youth", and so they can sleep in the same tents as those under 18. While I was writing this, I decided to take the Venturing youth protection. I am amazed that it made no mention of separate accommodation for youth under and over 18. That is confusing if I understood the Venturing training and what my chapter said was right, example: a 16 year old scout and a 19 year old ASM are in the same troop, chapter and crew. The first weekend, they sleep in the same tent at a fall fellowship and change clothes in the same bathroom. The next weekend they are forbiden to sleep in the same tent and have one on one contact on a troop backpacking trip. And now on the third weekend, the are in the same tent a again, on a crew camp out.

They will.

There is no such thing as a district position, district committiee members and commissioner staff and other district staff are registered with the council. Districts are only administration areas of a council, and do not have their own charter. I believe the same is true for region and area members, they are registered with the national council, but take that with a grain of salt because I cannot find anywhere that is written. CORs are voting members of the council and the district committee, but I know of none in my district that attends. That is one of my woodbadge ticket items, conduct Training the Chartered Organization Representative for the CORs in my district and bring in members of the district committee and the council to explain the function of each.

Looks like you guys will be there the week after I'm there.

I received my invitation to PTC yesterday, and I am almost 100% sure that my check will be sent in within the next few weeks. My wife is even excited to be going! I plan on taking "The Unit Commissioner - Meeting Unit Needs" but I'm not sure which week. So who else is planning on going this year and what class do you plan to take? Robert

Another stop could be Philmont, I know that have a winter program but I'm not sure if you can just stop in a look around.

The National Scouting Museum in in Irving, TX about 250 miles northwest of Huston. Are you driving all that or flying from Houston to Las Vegas, it's about a 20 hour drive or so?

Assuming that the SPL appoints the same ASPL, here is what I would do if I were him: Patrol 1 11 year old 2nd class 13 year old, Tenderfoot 12 year old, Tenderfoot 17 year old Life Scout, Troop Guide let these 4 elect a PL and APL from the 3 younger guys. Patrol 2 new scout patrol, let them elect a PL The 17 y/o might do better being considered part of the "Leadership Corps". Even though it is not part of the program right now, not sure how he would fit in a patrol with 11, 12 and 13 y/os. Small troops can have a tough time making the patrol method work.

Thats it, I'm turning in my resignation to the DCommish. ;-) Seriously LH, this doesn't bother me at all. When I try to debate my wife she gets mad and then upset and then I have to buy her something, so I welcome it here. I don't see being a UC about knowing all the answers to every problem, but being able to know where to turn when one comes up that you don't know what to do. In my case if I don't know what to do I look in the books to get an idea where to start, then I will look on this forum and the ask Andy articles, Eamonns commissioners advice is always great, at netcommish.com. I will also turn to the DE and other scouters in the district. I have even went to the DCommish of a neighboring district with a strong commissioner corps, he was an instructor at my commissioners basic. But the way that you are thinking LH, that no matter how much training a SM has had, if he was never a SPL, he could not properly coach as SPL to do his job since he does not have any OTJ experience. If you were appointed DCommish in my district what would you do with me? Eamonn, I am lucky to have some great leaders in my units. They have always been open to me, but all I can do is suggest ideas. They are pretty receptive, but it sometimes it is hard to break old habits.

I do agree that if I had more hands on experience that it would benefit the me and the units that I work with. But on the flip side who would you want as a UC, an inexperienced scouter that is trained by the book, one that had been a scoutmaster for years of a troop that was adult ran and then "promoted", or not even having one at all. I had to think long and hard about becoming a UC because of my inexperience, but in the end I realized that if I was willing to do the job the right way that I would be better than having no one, and that I would take every training course that was offered to me. I also thing the commissioners service is broken, probably beyond repair. In my district, I am the only active UC, although we one register a few weeks ago. Our DCommish is a wonderful lady, but she is just not doing the job. Part of our problem is that we had a DE for several years that wanted everything done his way, and he had some figureheads put in as DChair and DCommish, so that he could do everything the way he wanted it done. This went great, and everyone loved it, until he moved on and we went through 3 DEs in two years with a FD filling in in the gaps. Our new DE is great at his job so far. The problem is now is that he just wants to do his job and not the jobs of the volunteers, and now the volunteers are not wanting to step up. District committee and the commissioner service is now in shambles. Robert

I am a UC, for little over a year now, but I have never been a direct contact leader. What constitutes a Quality program? for a troop, an organized meeting ran by the boys, teaching scout skills to younger scouts by older scouts, an active recruiting plan, financially sound, good boy turn out, patrol activity, strong adult presence, and a strong outdoor program, but I would say a majority of troop are not like this, but as long as this is a goal and making improvements to get there I would still consider it a quality program. An yes, all of the criteria list above came from the UCs Troop Worksheet. I also look at the strength of the committee, if a PLC is being used, and if the boys are having a good time. How do you identify a Quality Program? After I visit a unit I will fill out a UCs Troop Worksheet, I also have the leader fill out a self assessment at the beginning of the year. How much time does it take to tell if a program is Quality or not. Depends on the unit, so you could walk in the door and tell if they are or they are not, or it could take a few months of evaluation to see. Where the people that trained you direct contact leaders for any length of time? My commissioner basic was taught by several guys that I would guess had 50 years or better combined as direct contact leaders. My NLE, scoutmaster and cub leader specifics as well as the troop committee challenge was taught by a guy that has several years as a direct contact leader in a troop and pack. My venturing specifics was taught by a team of venturing leaders and some training people that were past direct contact leaders. The people that taught at the Trainer Development Conference were all either current or previous direct contact leaders. And finally, my woodbadge troop guide is a scoutmaster of a fairly large troop. Robert

fgoodwin, For the troop level man scout, this is where a UC could coach him back to the ways should be ran and into some more training. If that doesn't work in my opinion the CO is not living up to the charter agreement "Conduct the Scouting program according to its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the Boy Scouts of America". The UC should bring this to the attention of the DCommish and the DE, and they should insist on having the first to the committee and then to the COR and IH. LongHaul, I had thought about coming back to scouts for a while but wasn't sure what I wanted to do. With my wifes work schedule, and the weekend trips to see our families, I just couldn't see me working with a troop. I started looking at how a troop is supposed to be ran, on this and other forums and BSA info, and soon discovered the troop I had as a kid wasn't ran the way it should of been, and almost every post I came across about troops like mine, one of the answer was always talk to your UC. So I looked up what a UCs job was and decided it was for me. Don't get me wrong I love my troop and always had a great time, but I feel I missed out on part of the leadership and planning training by having an adult ran troop. The "Commissioner Helps for Packs, Troops, and Crews", the Unit Worksheets, and the unit self assessment worksheet are what I use to get started. If I need something more, with the state of the commissioner service in my district, I usually turn to posts here and questions over on Ask Andy at netcommish.com, and try to find a similar problem, Eamonn usually has sound commissioner advice. With only one year of experience, by the book is where I start but also use references listed above. The first thing that I told the leaders of the units that I work with is that I was there to help in any way that I can, I have no authority to tell them they must do anything I will only offer suggestions, and if they ever have a problem with me let me know, and if that doesn't help the problem my boss in scouting is the district commissioner and her name is xxxxxxx. I am not a UC to tell unit leaders what to do or earn a chest full of knots, I do it because I saw that I could of had a better experience in scouting than I did, and want to help leaders to get to a point where the boys in those units can have that experience. My goals right now are helping my units earn the centennial quality award, help in the transition from 2 broken troops to one troop that will be one life support, figuring out what awards my leaders might have qualified for before the yearly turn in at next roundtable, and pushing my DE to set a up a meeting with a pastor so we can resolve a chartering issue with a pack.

You can order a mending kit from scoutstuff.org http://tinyurl.com/3bqpm2, or you could have your scout shop order it for you.

While I agree with LongHauls second definition, I really don't like his first definition "If being fairly active in District and Council means the adults themselves are active at these levels" and the part of Brents post that eolesen pointed out. I have been a unit commissioner for a little over a year now since an absence from scouting since I was a kid. I have very little direct contact youth, but "job" is not to be a direct contact leader. Direct contact leader refers to those unit leaders who deal most directly with the youth and are responsible for the delivery of the Scouting program to the youth members of a unit. My job is to be a friend of the unit, help them with any problem they may have, and make sure they are running a quality program("make sure" is not it happens now or else, it means I will help them in any way that I can to make it happen). I just don't see why this would make someone want to avoid me at all costs. As for troop people being involved on at the district and council level, I agree some troop, pack and crew people are needed there, the ones who job it is to be there is the chartered reps. By definition the are automatically members of the district committee and the council, where they represent the interests of your unit and your CO.(This message has been edited by click23)

OA Vigil and Woodbagde knots.

The original Silver Award knot was a red and yellow knot on a program specific background.

This site has a lot of information on award knot history.http://www.crowl.org/George/ Two that are not knots, but go in the same place are the Hornaday Badge(only Hornaday Medal recepaints wear the knot) and the current Ranger bar.

That was the obsolete exploring award that I mentioned. Another one is the old Den Leader Coach Award. Two more left(that I know of), the previously mentioned "Happy Feet" Award, and an OLD Sea Scouts adult award.(This message has been edited by click23)

One more pack training award that I know of. The "Happy Feet Award", now that is a rare one. Anyone know if is really official knot, or a third party knot for meeting a set of requirements?

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