clemlaw

Take my $0.02 for what it's worth. I was a Scout about a hundred years ago, and I'm currently a Tiger Den Leader. But sometimes the outsider might be able to shed some light on something. I suspect that your SM is wrong, and there is no policy which prohibits doing what you want to do. But it's probably not important to prove him wrong! It sounds like you currently have a patrol of 2, which as you realize isn't much of a patrol after all. But it gives the two of you the advantage of having a lot of independence. I can point to an official BSA policy that a Scout is Helpful, so there's nothing stopping you from being Helpful. Since there are only two of you, you may as well just pick out a Patrol that needs help, and help them. Pick out the Patrol you want to help, and then just ask them, "since there are only two of us, can we camp with you this time?" I can't imagine why they would say no. So for all intents and purposes, your patrols have merged. As another poster said, in different words, I would volunteer for as many "irksome tasks" as you can, and also make sure the members of the younger patrol are successful with their "weighty responsibilities". IMHO, this is the best way to lead those two scouts "who are actually interested in boy scouting." And if you don't watch out, I bet you'll also get a few of the other ones hooked.

That does sound like a good zombie movie. At our house, we only watch educational TV, so one of our favorite cartoons is "Camp Lazlo": http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/camplazlo/index.html For some reason which I can't understand, they didn't get the approval of the BSA to use the words "Boy Scouts", so this camp is instead affiliated with the Bean Scouts of America.

>>>>>>requirement 4 of the Camping merit badge reads 4.Do the following: a. Make a duty roster showing

Stosh wrote: >>>>>Otherwise, they become champion water-boys and experts in doing dishes, and haven't a clue what it takes to run more than a trip to the pump let alone a patrol as a whole.

>>>>>The only thing I've said "no" to for the past few years, is going to the paintball range to shoot at each other.

>>>>>Sorry, No, for the ___th time, we cannot go to the paint ball range. Rules,, G2SS, Blah, blah, blah.

>>>>>>Boy, it has been a while since you sold popcorn!

Strawberry Poptarts don't contain adequate nutrition. If you want a balanced diet, then you need to eat the Chocolate Poptarts like I do!

I don't have anything written to direct you to, but that is extremely poor practice. She's basically comingling funds, which is a very bad idea. I suspect that there might be some written guidelines from your council, either in their Popcorn materials, or else in their unit fundraiser information. That's the first place I would look, and I suspect it probably says that she should not be doing that. It probably says that monies received should be promptly deposited into the troop account. If she were asking for my advice, I would also tell her not to do it for her own protection. Nobody's perfect, and at some point, it's possible for someone to write a bad check, just from poor math skills. If her bank balance dropped down to $7999 for some reason, and she wrote a check for $8000 in good faith and it bounced, she might face some serious criminal consequences. I don't have any objection if Johnny Scout collects $50 in cash and his parents write a check to the troop to cover it. But this $8000 should have been promptly deposited into the troop's account. Also, I find it surprising that nobody paid with a check. If someone bought popcorn and wrote a check, who did they make it out to? If they made it out to the troop and she endorsed it, that amounts to forgery. If she had people make it out to her, that seems like an extremely poor practice.

>>>>>However, if a Scout has a sockful of coins from his own sales efforts that he did by himself (ex. house to house) as opposed to with a group (ex. concession stand)

Well, it's a judgment call on whether to call the cops. If your goal is to get most or all of the money back, then depending on the situation, it might be better to set up a payment plan. If you're sure that won't work, then calling the cops might be the best alternative. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that it's usually not advisable to _threaten_ to call the cops. If you are going to call them, then it's best just to do so and not to give any advance notice. If you do, then you're setting yourself up to a claim of extortion. If the cops show up and are halfway diplomatic about it, then there's a small chance that they'll figure out a way to cough up the money. But if you make what can be perceived as a threat to call the cops, the chances of collecting go way down. So if it truly comes time to call the cops, then just go ahead and do it.

On another forum I'm a member of, the subject comes up quite frequently. I forget the exact numbers, but a deep-cycle RV-type battery is good for several nights. Obviously, it's also heavy, so it's not really an option very far away from a vehicle. Also, if it's going to be out in the open, it really needs to be a sealed battery, so some Cub Scout doesn't knock it over and spill battery acid. (The battery will need to go outside the tent, so you'll probably need a box for it as well.) I forget the exact cost (my RV electrical needs are easily satisfied by a $20 lawnmower battery), but I believe such a battery will cost you about $75. I suspect (but I don't know for sure) that a larger one of the portable jump-start battery packs would be good for one night, if you have access to a vehicle or 120 volts to recharge it during the day. Here's a recent thread discussing the subject: http://popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=75646.0 It would be best if the CPAP machine runs directly off 12 volts. It's my understanding that many of them do. If it only runs off 120 volts, and you don't want to buy another one, then another possibility would be to use an inverter. However, that introduces inefficiency, and the battery will not last as long. If you do go this route, then get an inverter that is just barely large enough to do the job--if the CPAP takes 75 watts, then get a 100 watt inverter. A 300 watt inverter would be more inefficient. But it's best to use a machine that runs on 12 volts in the first place. Personally, I would be very, very, very reluctant to run 120 volts to a tent. IMHO, there are just too many things that could go wrong. But if your tent is going to be near a building with electricity, this might be something that is done. If you do this, I would keep a couple of things in mind. First of all, make absolutely sure that it's plugged in to a GFI protected outlet. (I think you can buy extension cords with a GFI built in.) Second, make sure it's an extension cord that is designed for outdoor use and of adequate size. Take particular care that the cord is not touching combustible materials, including where it enters the tent, and don't allow the cord to get covered up. Finally, place the connection somewhere where it will remain dry. Again, extension cords running into tents make me very nervous, but it might be necessary in some very limited situations if proper precautions are taken.

This is one of the reasons why I'm glad our current pack doesn't participate in popcorn sales. Our old pack did sell popcorn, and they seemed to have occasional problems like this. And unfortunately, in this case, I'm betting that it's the kid who suffers because his parents "borrowed" some of the popcorn money. He's probably not at meetings because the parents are too embarassed to bring him. Our main fundraiser is Christmas wreaths. Unlike popcorn, it's a big enough ticket item ($15-$20) so that most people write checks, so there's less temptation to "borrow" the money before it's handed in. And if the checks get lost before making their way to the treasurer, at least there's a list of names so that someone can sheepishly call them and ask for a replacement check. If a $20 check gets lost, you can probably get away with doing that. But if the $10 from someone's popcorn purchase gets lost, then the money stays lost. In this case, I would propose a payment plan to the family. Obviously, if they need a payment plan, this means that they "borrowed" the money (also known as embezzlement). So making that offer is, in a sense, accusatory. So I would do it in as non-accusatory a manner as possible. The family probably has bills to pay, so the natural tendency is to prioritize the bills. This is probably why they "borrowed" the money in the first place. So I would diplomatically tell them that Johnny is welcome to stay in Cub Scouts, but they need to pay a minimum of $40 a month, or $10 a week, or whatever, until the money (or popcorn) is returned. Then, to make sure that they consider it to be more important than their other bills, make sure it looks like a bill. Send them a statement showing the date the next payment is due, and include an envelope to mail it in. You might even want to spring for 44 cents for a stamp, so they won't have that excuse to fall back on. When you present them with the payment plan, I would ask them what day of the week or month they get paid, and tell them that each payment is due, in the treasurer's hands, the next day. You could even offer to "help" them by getting a set of post-dated checks. Yes, the people are probably guilty of embezzling the money. But making that accusation probably won't help, because they probably already know this. The best way to handle it, IMHO, is to give them a way to make good. If they are in financial trouble, then $400 might sound like a million dollars. But chances are, $10 a week or whatever is something they can recover from. Chances are, this kid needs Cub Scouts, and this makes it possible for him to remain. And needless to say, this particular family should now be on a C.O.D. basis for anything that requires funds. If the pack is in a position to have him participate without paying, that is great. But if there are things he needs to pay for, they need to be paid up front. Again, I'm glad our Pack doesn't sell popcorn. Our poor treasurer has enough trouble with wreaths, but it's not nearly as prone to trouble as selling nickel and dime packages of overpriced popcorn.

>>>>Is there a BSA rule written some where that Scout money cannot be deposited into a personal checking account?

My only point of reference was from when I was a Scout. In retrospect, the Patrol that I was placed into was the "New Scout Patrol", but it wasn't called that. But it was made up mostly of new scouts. There were about five 6th graders which, at the time, was the normal age for joining. I was the only one who had been in Webelos, so I was still in 5th grade. One member was a mature 7th grader, who was either First Class or Star at the time. He was the natural leader of the group. I don't know if he had been elected (the patrol was in existence when I joined), but had there been an election, he would have been the obvious choice. It worked out so well, that I assumed every troop did it that way. After a year or so, we were no longer the "New Scout Patrol". Our Patrol Leader moved on to other things (I think he became SPL), and one of the "new scouts" (me) became the Patrol Leader. Generally, Scouts were members of Patrols until about 9th Grade. After that, they generally became a member of the "Leadership Corps", which I understand is about the same as the "Venture Patrol" these days. It worked out pretty well--we were mostly inexperienced, so we mostly had to muddle through things ourselves. But we also had one leader who was very competent and experienced, so we were able to keep the muddling to a minimum. I think the main reason it worked out so well was that the Scoutmaster had the wisdom to put this particular experienced scout in with the new Tenderfoots. Chances are, most other Scouts, even if they were a couple of years older, wouldn't have done as good a job. But in this case, the chemistry was just right, and it allowed us newbies to develop into competent scouts, and it also gave our Patrol Leader an opportunity to turn into an excellent leader.

>>>logged by a secret Vatican computer

>>>Again, your point is lost. How is being certain being untrustworthy? And how does a Protestant theologian to justify forming one's conscience to the Catholic view?

In the same spirit, I would respectfully ask you to avoid making statements such as the following: "For Catholics, the Catholic perspective on religion is how we are to form our consciences. Not the other way around, which is how many Protestant communions view it." Most Protestant theologians would agree with the proposition that you advance as being uniquely Roman Catholic. You know to an absolute certainty what you believe, and I know to an absolute certainty what I believe. But I do not know exactly what you believe, nor do you know exactly what I believe. It often makes conflicts superficially easier to resolve if I can first decide what you believe, and then refute it. It's easy, but it's not being Trustworthy, nor is it bearing true witness. If you strive to always bear true witness, then it's easy to avoid bearing false witness.

>>In all seriousness, from a "newbie" perspective, I do see a LOT of negativism in here. (Dangit, there I go shouting again.)

Our Council has a popular event called "Polar Cubs". This is an all-day activity where Cub Scouts are outside almost all day (from 9 AM to 3 PM, IIRC). I think there were two activities (a half hour each, IIRC) which were inside buildings. But other than that, they are out in the cold. The Pack we were with last year was there on a balmy day, and I think the temperature was about 10 degrees. When our current pack was there, the temperature was about minus 10. Generally, the event is not cancelled because of weather. They definitely would not cancel it because of mere cold. I suspect if _driving_ conditions were bad, it might get cancelled. So it probably varies from state to state. In other parts of the country, I suspect the National Guard would get called in if a bunch of Cub Scouts were out in below zero conditions. Around here, we just dress for the weather. Adults like me grumble about it, but the kids seem to love it. As far as I know, the only medical issue was me, and that was an inner tube crash.

>>>>>how do the local restaurants get around this law?

>>>>>>>Then...POUNCE! "you are denying them the chance to try and earn their rank award" "having a Bobcat den is not a good idea" "it might add to confusion about how cub scouting really works" "I think the better way to handle things would be"

>>>>>I know my personal liability insurance does not cover such an undertaking.

I would also limit it to a couple of weeks. In my Tiger den, I think everyone finished Bobcat in two weeks. The most time consuming requirement is the Youth Protection stuff, and that needs to be done at home anyway. So at the first meeting, we went over the Cub Scout Motto, Cub Scout Sign, Cub Scout Handshake, and meaning of Webelos, and got everyone "signed off" on these easy requirements. We also recited the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack in "repeat after me" form. For "homework", they were given a sheet with the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack, in case they didn't have their books yet. (I also offered to give them a copy of the Youth Protection pages, but everyone had their book already.) At the next meeting, everyone recited the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack, and everyone seemed to know it, so we signed them off. The requirement says "learn" and not "memorize", so especially for Tigers, I figured there was no need to individually test them. They seem to pick it up just saying it at meetings, so they'll know it soon anyway. So if you have a large group, I could see doing a couple of introductory meetings, and if you want to call those meetings the "Bobcat Den", I don't see why not. But after one or two meetings, they should be ready to join a regular den, and they'll probably have more fun that way.

Well, first of all, congratulations, Mr. Cubmaster. Others with more experience will probably chime in with better information, but here's what I would do personally in your situation. First, do your best to maintain cordial relations with your CO. Obviously, they don't view themselves as the "owner" of the Pack. Many CO's are in that same category, and it can still work well. If paying deposits are burdensome, then start shopping around for alternate meeting places. On the other hand, I would try to keep at least _some_ meetings taking place at their facility, just so that you can continue to foster whatever "ownership" interest they might still have. I would consider doing some sort of service project on their behalf. For example, our Pack raked leaves at our CO, even though they are also very hands off. It would be nice if they provided more resources, but they are doing a favor by signing the charter renewal every year. So if you can't get more, make sure you at least preserve that. And please, stop tossing pebbles at their windows. But I would also start discretly putting out feelers at other potential CO's, and see if one of them might be interested. Obviously, the existing one doesn't take much "ownership" interest. And it's possible that at some point in the future, they will be presented with a charter renewal and decide not to sign it. So having other options available might be prudent. I would try to get a committee going, and try to interest someone in taking the role of committee chair (CC). Even though you probably have an "official" CC, it sounds like you're really doing that job right now, which isn't really the best way of doing things. If your existing CC isn't up to the task, then I would get the process going by holding "monthly parent meetings" of all interested parents. Slowly but surely you could get the parents who show up at these meetings to become registered members, at which point you will have a committee.