clemlaw

>>>>Air mattresses.....and electric air pumps. you will sleep much better and warmer on a closed cell foam pad. how many times have you woke up on a flat air mattress

pchadbo, I suspect I'm going to go against the prevailing wisdom here, but if you're looking for something that you're going to use a couple of weekends per year, then I would go with the main criterion of CHEAP! We're kind of in the same boat as you--much of our family "camping" is in a pop-up camper. For those occasions when we want a tent, the one that happened to be on sale at Target is adequate. If you're going to be camping near a vehicle, then I would also strongly recommend getting an air mattress and 12 volt pump to inflate it. Now, if you want to move up from "cheap", then there are three factors that I would look for. The first is whether it is big enough. A "4-person" tent is probably comfortable for 2 people. The second is the ease of setting it up. I was a Scout, but my wife is in charge of setting up our tent. It's just too complicated for me, and she's better at reading the instructions. The third is very hard to find, but if you're going to be camping near your vehicle, then IMHO, the most important luxury is the ability to stand up. Unfortunately, most "cheap" tents won't give you this luxury (and tents designed for backpacking won't either). You can get away without this luxury for a weekend, but after a while, trying to get dressed without standing up gets very old very fast.

As I've mentioned before, I've been away from Boy Scouts for about 30 years, and since my son is currently a Tiger, I have about 4 more years to go before I'm back. But my experience with Scouting was that we very rarely "worked on advancement" while camping, at least during weekend campouts. However, at some point, possibly at the next troop meeting, I was encouraged to open up my book to page so-and-so, and it was pointed out to me that, lo and behold, I had completed requirement number such-and-such. I suspect that this might have been planned to some extent, but they never really let on that it was anything other than serendipity. Other than Cub Scout family camp, I haven't done any Scout camping for a long time. But when we go camping as a family, the ideal schedule is something along the following lines: 1. Get up 2. Eat something that doesn't require cooking 3. Take time cooking a proper breakfast 4. Eat breakfast 5. Take time cooking lunch 6. Eat lunch 7. Take time cooking supper 8. Eat supper 9. Go to bed Even with that busy schedule, I try to also squeeze in a nap or two. When it comes time to look for a troop, I'll probably encourage my son to find one that follows this schedule.

Rope making! Our Tigers did it at their den meeting, and everyone was able to successfully make a piece of rope in about five minutes. You will find directions many places on the internet. I took those and simplified them somewhat. On each end, instead of a special baton, they just used a stick (actually, a pencil). And to "whip" the rope when finished, we just used a piece of masking tape.

I was also totally uninterested in sports, and I still am. I really don't care how many home runs the football team makes. It's only because of Scouts that there are a few vaguely athletic activities that I'm good at. I'm a good swimmer (slightly better than average) and a good canoeist (slightly above average for Boy Scouts, meaning that I'm a world-class expert compared to most people I see trying to paddle one.) I can also do a few other activites thanks to Scouting (such as haul a bunch of junque on my back), but I really don't think of them as being particularly athletic. If it weren't for Scouts, I'd probably be a fat person, as opposed to a typical out-of-shape adult.(This message has been edited by clemlaw)

Here on the internet, you tend to get a lot of grouchy know-it-alls. In short, many of the posters are just like me.

>>>>Clem maybe in your troop LNT stands for "Lazy Notwilling Troop" not a good message from you to pass on to your troop, you are the leader and set the way by example good or bad.

John-in-KC wrote: >>>My Cub shirt (Pack 194, Woodland Hills), still has my Lion award.

When I read the thread title, I couldn't help but think of the scene from a movie (I can't remember which one it was) where someone was being held upside down out a window, ready to be dropped to his death. He was saying, "I apologize unreservedly". My son's kindergarten teacher had a rule that students were required to say they were sorry, _even if they weren't_. That rule actually worked pretty well in kindergarten. But I generally agree with Seattle that it works less and less well, the more you try to compell the apology. If this post has caused offense to anyone, I hereby apologize unreservedly.

>>>>clem, if you "don't do as good a job policing" is that LNT's fault or your units?

Now, I'm not sure I have a good sampling of current practices, so I could be mistaken about this. I was a Scout about a hundred years ago, and have recently returned as a Tiger Den Leader. So my recent experience with camping and outdoor activities has been Cub Scout activities at Council facilities. My experience from the "olden days" was Boy Scout activities, not necessarily at council facilities. So maybe that explains the following observation. But from what I've been able to see so far, we did a better job of "leaving no trace" back before those words were invented. These days, we don't seem to do as good a job of "policing the area" as when I was a Scout. And we seem to generate a heckuva lot more trash these days, although we dutifully put half of it in the "recycling" bin rather than in the other dumpster. I never did really see much point in digging a trench around the tent. I never bothered, but these days, I'm refraining from doing so out of respect for the environment. Back when I was a Scout, the reason I didn't do it is because I was lazy. Again, maybe things are different at Boy Scout camp. But I have this nagging suspicion that I actually left less of a trace back in the day.

(Hanging head in shame as I look at the crumpled-up newspaper in my hand.)

>>>>>>I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if my daughter was 14 years old, and had just joined this Crew. This 16 year old is going to be teaching and mentoring her? As a parent, I should just accept this?

Most non-scouts are able to start a fire. It's not exactly rocket science, so I wouldn't worry too much whether or not there's a specific requirement. I have noticed that most of the non-scouts tend to use flammable liquid to get their fire going. But most of them seem to be aware of the fact that you can use crumpled-up newspaper in place of the flammable liquid. I bet if they thought about it, they would probably even be able to figure out that you can use small pieces of wood in place of the crumpled-up newspaper. As far as I know, there's no specific requirement that an Eagle Scout know how to tie his shoes. But as far as I know, most of them figured it out somewhere along the way. By the way, don't tell anyone, but I use crumpled-up newspaper. I hope I don't have to turn in my Eagle.

>>>Boys who enjoy non-outdoor activities can do a lot of things in Cub Scouts, but when they hit 5th grade, BSA no longer has anything for them --

The Pinewood Derby was one of those things that was a culture shock to me after being away from Cub Scouts for almost 40 years. I guess I should have suspected it when the Pack brought out the power tools they had stored away in the church basement which were used once a year for Pinewood Derby construction. IIRC, there was a drill press, a saw, a belt sander, and probably a couple more exotic pieces of equipment that I don't remember. (And yes, before anyone asks, as far as I know, they followed the G2SS, meaning that the adults did those parts of the construction.) But I wasn't prepared when I came in race day to see the electronic timers, precision scales, computers, etc., etc. I suspect our current pack is a little more laid back, but I'm really not sure. The Pinewood Derby car that I remember making as a kid still holds the record of being the world's slowest, and I don't think my record will ever be beat. Fortunately, from the Rain Gutter Regattas that I've seen, it appears that the neo-Luddites are still firmly in control there, and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

>>>>We don't want a situation in which scouting "is for the fat kids who can't play basketball."

>>>>>>Are there not pilot programs to add a kindergarden level to the Packs.. I think I heard they are being called lions.. Don't know if that is good news or bad news, given the feeling DL are feeling burnt out..

>>>>a failure of BSA to understand that Cub Scouting should be considered on its own merits as a self-contained program with its own goals and outcomes, and not in relation to the Boy Scouting program. If we had no expectation that Boy Scouts come from Cub Scouts, how would that change how we think about both programs?

>>>>>In the pre-online training era, we had great success offering various training at 7:00 PM before the 8:00 Roundtable. It got folks trained and increased Roundtable attendance.

>>>>>When I was a Web way back in the late 60's our pack had a Web DL who was different from the Den Mother we had during Wolf and Bear ranks. After Bear all boys went to the Web den with this new leader who was into the outdoors stuff. We kinda entered a pre-Boy Scout program.

>>>>The OP said splitting the den and forming another den is not a option they are going to pursue.

>>>>>If you want to help other people, put together a Spanish language presentation for your program "kickoff" that explains to parents that the national Hispanic initiative cheats their sons out of the Scoutcraft program guaranteed to Americans by an Act of Congress.

>>>>isn't that what I wrote? LOL

>>>>>read about another scouter talking about places he has been, like the '73 jamboree.