Adam S

I have two different versions of the work book, both versions purchased within the last couple years, they seem identical except for the award costing $8.00 in one version and $9.00 in the other (of note in the $9 version it is crossed out in every single copy and $7.50 written in) I am wondering if there is a newer version as comparing the directions to the map seem wonky round about page 18 when you leave redoubt 3 and start along Mount Joy Ridge. I called the Park but no one was familiar enough with the route the book puts you on well enough to speak to it. They could only say that a new version was released "a couple years ago" seeing as both are identical except for the medal price I was wondering if there is a different book. I did not have a chance to call the encampment store yet, but was hoping to get an answer and maybe speak to someone who has done the trail recently. YIS, Adam

~~ I have a few issues with this whole thing Changing the Tiger Image ************************ Awesome, it is about time that this program gets updated, The Den & Pack Meeting resource guide tacitly acknowledged that most Packs run it like a regular Den and do not typically have each Tiger/AP couple host a meeting. But if you say your going to change the image, then publish images of the proposed handbook covers with the natural looking Wolf and Bear and the plush-toy cuddly Tiger have you really updated the "image"? Moving to Adventures ******************** The presentation stated: 1. Seven adventures per rank 2. Three meetings per adventure 3. The Religious Adventure would be done with family This sounds like it might take a long time since most Den's meet twice a month So 6 adventures * 3 meetings =18 meetings to make rank 18 meetings / 2 meetings a month = 9 months to rank 9 Months does not seem unreasonable, but... Boys miss meetings Dens cancel meetings because of school closures weather and may or may not be able to make it up December is iffy with Holidays. I am a bit skeptical of this timeline being workable, but I know we don't have all the facts and things could change. Still lets think about this some more! If we assume the Scout year starts in September, and no meetings are missed, The Cub should have earned their rank by May. This is great, BUT, most Packs end their scouting year in June (or start when school starts and end when school ends, where I am it is September to June) So this gives my boys 1 month to do an elective adventure (which the documentation implies will also take 3 meetings.) I assume/hope boys will be still be able to work on requirements/electives at home with family. The current program is less then easy at first glance but it has some advantages over packaged Adventures. Certain requirements compliment each other and can be done out of order, will that remain the same in the new program or are Adventures going to be discrete packages to be presented as a whole? Belt Loops ********** I Know Belt Loops are going and I am ambivalent about this, while it did earn the boys bling it was poorly integrated into the advancement scheme. In fact you mostly have to work on Webelos Activity Badges to see any true involvement of Belt Loops and if you have already earned a given loop, you have to re-earn it as a Webelos, the inference is that even if you earned it as a Bear 3 months later the lessons you learned from a Belt Loop were so insignificant they want you to learn them again. The boys enjoyed them though... And I echo 100% what EmberMike said "Glad to see the Sports & Academics Program and belt loops going away. A lot of those seem like just a rubber stamp. Kids on the soccer team get the soccer award, etc. Scouting doesn't need to be the place where they get another recognition for having already done something completely outside of the principles of scouting. I wish they'd make more changes like this and make scouting more back-to-basics outdoors stuff, scoutcraft, camping, etc." This is possibly the most shocking thing thought to me, our Pack spends close to a thousand dollars on belt loops each year. This is a cash cow, what will be implemented in it's place? I saw one Pack from a nearby council that instead of giving belt loops gives a series of small circular patches that make concentric circles, they have their Cubs wear them on the back of the shirt. They said it is cheaper, and more important the parents were happier because belt loops were not getting constantly lost. It looked pretty neat to me, my sons thought it was "super cool" and the proigram is about the boys so this might be interesting. WEBELOS/Arrow of Light ********************** 1. 7 adventures for all ranks - What does this mean for the Activity Badge program? If one of the purposes of Webelos is to prepare scouts for Boy Scouts, this analog to the Merit Badge program was perfect. I admit the pins are frequently lost and make the uniform less "outdoor friendly" and the "colors" doubly so, but the program itself worked well I think. 2. The Webelos badge is no longer a pre-req for Arrow of Light. I am not sure I understand the reasoning for this, does National think I will suddenly recruit boys in the 5th grade because it will be easier to get their Arrow of Light? Are they trying to bump their statistices of AOL recipients by allowing scouts who did not earn their Webelos still have a shot at AOL? I have yet to come up with a reason that makes sense, have any of you? 3. if each rank takes 7 adventures and as I outlined above that means each rank takes 9 months for the majority of Cubs, does this mean Arrow Of Light Sccouts will be encouraged to bridg in May/June and not around the February/March time frame? I am currently a CUbmaster, an Asst Scoutmaster and a District Commssioner and in each of those roles I see big advantages of getting the boy in the troop a few months before summer camp. Will they assign less adventures towards earningg the AOL? Instant Recognition/Arrow Heads ******************************* I won't miss the beads, they get lost insanely easy, they cover the kids temporary patch position (and my Cubs LOVE their patches {yes, we know red vests... meh}) Arrowheads, alreeady expressed concern about what will happen with electives in my assessment of the Adventures above, While they Arrowheads are traditional, they get unruly fast. Interested to see what replaces it. The scariest thing to me in all this is the imlementation of a Den Guide at each rank level. This stinks of being a JTE metric. I have a successful Pack, Why do I suddenly need five more registered leaders? And they are essentially administartive? If it is something where I can simply appoint one of my den leaders and let them double register like the COR/CC then fine, Each level always has their "Alpha Leader" that naturally evolves. I guess my concern stems from the simple fact that we have no information, not a job description, not why they are going to implement this, nothing...

I don't see why you would be surprised. I'm not Christian, but have a least half a dozen bibles at home, maybe a whole dozen. "Concerned" family members send them as gifts, people trying to convert me send them as gifts, and its just plain easier to politely accept them from the Giddeons (sp?) on the corner at their twice yearly hand out than to have to stop and engage in a theological discussion, especially when neither of us are going to change our positions. Need to be able to "like" the comments, Cause NeverAnEagle's popcorn comment is spot on!

It is the second stage because in June BSA national introduced an increase to the annual insurance rate per member and in September they introduced a second increase related to administrative costs.

I did read the entire "Knot Ninja program" and it is an interesting concept, but as someone mentioned in this thread. It is the youth leadership of your Troops job to impart these skills on the boy. You have indicated that your unit *IS* boy led, and that you in fact are a youth member. Maybe you need to review how your Troops teaching skills as opposed to adding things to the uniform just to reinforce a single, basic skill... Does your troop not go camping enough for these boys to apply these knots on a regular basis?

First you do realize that B-P explicitly stated several times scouting is not the Military, right? Second, all for seeing someone develop a new award. But if your going to call out an organizations uniform standard as not high enough and then intend to implement "shoulder cords" in contradiction to those very standards I think your a hypocrite. I also need to observe that this program is about Knot tying, a skill so basic to scouting that not being able to tie them means one does not advance in rank and you think people should be given uniform decorations for that? Third, If you like fancy uniforms, and the idea of the Knot Ninja program, take a look at the Sea Scout program. It is challenging, more structured than Boy Scouts and it has a variety of Uniforms.

Paracordman1220 said "Not to mention there is little to no enforcement of the uniform standards (To be honest there isn't much to enforce )." I would agree there is poor enforcement, blame the Scoutmasters/Cubmasters. But there certainly IS quite a bit to enforce. Scoutnut mentioned it but did not link it. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx Then Paracordman1220 said "I see scouts with long feathery hair down to their shoulder and wearing rainbow epaulets." The hair if well groomed is acceptable, we are making confident and capable young men, not clones. I think you meant to say they were wearing rainbow shoulder loops, on their epaulets. Regardless, I knew what you mean and you are correct. Have a problem take it up with their Unit Leader, do so in a Scout-like manner. Paracordman1220 went on to say "Now, I'd appreciate it if you would get this back on topic and stop derailing the OP, or don't post at all." Friendly... Courteous... Kind...

Someone suggested making their own slides and that is always great, bending the tabs works on the BSA neckerchiefs, but for the non-BSA slides try using grip tape (the textured tape on top of a skateboard) it gives the slide a bit more friction while making the opening a little narrow, works like a charm!

I have the same desire as several others, I want to see all the active threads in the last 24 hours or since my last visit not each individual post... This was how it worked on the "old" site.

As mentioned wear the square knot with the appropriate devices for regular wear. Up to 5 medals can be worn at one time for formal moments. I should point out those knot devices are not real fun if your going to wear a pack of any kind, and they have the added benefit of being easy to forget at laundry time. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066_Section3.pdf

I am sorry I don't remember which thread or who posted it. But I do remember seeing it here in the last few months. Someone had driectly asked National Venturing Staff about this situation and the gist of it was, that even if one was youth and the other adult, BSA placed married people sleeping in a tent together over generic YPT rules.

Does GSUSA have a rule or is it decided by their councils? I have heard of several male Troop leaders, but I also personally know someone who was denied being a leader for his daughters troop specificaly because he is a man.

Brewmeister, I don't think I stated, or even implied, that openly gay people could not be pedophiles. The point I was making was that it could be anyone.