CHLees3rd

When I first heard that the Promise and Law were being phased out, I was annoyed too. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought it was a good thing. The change will be better for all because it will unite the levels. Cub Scouts will say the same Oath and Law as their Den Chief. And the Den Chief will not be confused about which one to recite. As for the younger Scouts being able to learn the Oath and Law, I do not think it will be a promise. My wife and I lead a Girl Scout troop and have done so since my daughter was a Daisy in kindergarten. The Girl Scout Promise is short and sweet like the Cub Scout Promise, but the Girl Scout Law is much more wordy than the Boy Scout Law. We started every weekly meeting with the Promise and Law and most of the Scouts got most of it. When we offered a "I Know The Promise" and "I Know The Law" fun patches to those who could recite them from memory, each Scout learned them within a few months to earn their patches. Many, many years later we still start our weekly Girl Scout meetings with the Promise and Law.

Supplemental training is pretty much any training done outside of position-specific courses and advanced courses such as Wood Badge, Seabadge, and Powder Horn. A couple that come to mind are Trainer's EDGE and University of Scouting. The requirement you are trying to complete states to "Participate in a supplemental training course at either the council or national level." Check out your council's website to see what courses it is offering or check out neighboring councils' websites. Chazz Lees

On another list/forum/group, I read that our National Commissioner, Tico Perez, told commissioners attending a course at the Philmont Training Center that the National Executive Board had approved the "One Oath Initiative" - doing away with the Cub Scout Oath, the Law of the Pack, the Venturing Oath and Venturing Code "One Oath Initiative" in favor of the using the Boy Scout Oath and Law for all divisions. According to the post, he explained it as Cubs will learn the words. Boy Scouts will live the words. And Venturing will carry the words on into adult life. (Tico is this accurate or are things missing?) Im curious as to what others think of the initiative. Below is my reply to thread. ____________ I have two reasons why I oppose the One Oath Initiative. My first objection has to do with the way Scouts progress through the program. The Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) has one promise and one law for all six of its levels. Girls generally start at as a Daisy and bridges up to the next level roughly every two years. Since every Girl Scout follows the natural progression through the levels, it makes sense that they share the same promise and law. The Boy Scouts of America does not run like the GSUSA does. Most of our Scouts start in Cub Scout Packs as Tigers moving up every year towards WEBELOS before becoming joining troops as Boy Scouts. Up to this point the progression is pretty straight forward: Bobcat-Tiger-Wolf-Bear-WEBELOS-Boy Scout. It is at the Boy Scout level where things get crazy because of options. Most Boy Scouts go through the program and then became Assistant Scoutmasters having never been Venturers: Boy Scout-ASM. Some Boy Scouts leave troops and join crews only being Venturers: Boy Scout-Venturer. And still there are other Boy Scouts who dual register as Venturers: Boy Scout/Venturer. Add the transition from youth to adult adds even more craziness. You can have Boy Scout/Venturer Venturer/ASM ASM/Advisor and other related combinations. This doesnt even take into consideration our Sea Scout program which just adds to the mix. Since the BSA does not have a natural progression of all Scouts from first grade to age 21, I do not see a need for the One Oath Initiative especially when the Cub Scout Promise, the Scout Oath, and the Venturing Code all say basically the same thing: Duty to self, duty to God, and duty to others. My second reason is more personal. My son has special needs and our school district has a two-year kindergarten program for children with special needs. I have heard of other districts that run similar programs but call the first year kindergarten and the second year transitional. Since my school district calls both years kindergarten, my son is not yet eligible to join Cub Scouts. With nothing but time on our hands now, we recite the Cub Scout Promise, Law, Motto and the meaning of WEBELOS every night at bedtime. He is very close to reciting each one by himself. He smiles because he is learning it and I smile because his hard work is paying off. I have shown him my Cub Scout shirt and he has felt all the badges. I point to my Bobcat badge and tell him that it could be his first badge too just like it was mine. He cant wait to be a Cub Scout. This initiative would really screw up our plans! Chazz Lees

I usually wear my campaign hat, but I wore my red beret to a pack meeting last week for a change. It was a commissioner visit for me, and many adults commented about it asking if I replaced my "Smokey the Bear hat." Most hadn't see red beret in decades, and many told me that it looked pretty good with my red jacket. Chazz Lees

Neal is correct. Only an understanding of and an agreement to live by the Oath, Law, Motto, Slogan as well as the Outdoor Code is required. I read the post incorrectly and got fixated on Tenderfoot. When you meet with the Scout, have him open the book and read all of them with you. Then have him explain what it means so that you get that he understands them. If he is not sure about something, the two of you can talk about it until he understands. When you are done, just ask him if he agrees to live by them. Good luck, Chazz Lees

I'm going to add to Basement's post. When you call the two aside, put them at ease first so that it doesn't appear like an inquisition. Tell the father that you only want him to watch and then tell the Scout that all you need him to do is recite the Scout Oath and Law. If the Scout appears to get nervous, tell him to breathe and take his time. Tell him to make the Scout sign and start when he is ready. If he recites it correctly all the way through, then your job is done. However, if he goofs a little bit, wait until he is finished and tell him it is not quite right. Inform him what was wrong and what the correction is. Do not let him do it again at that time. Tell him that you will try it again next week. Be upbeat about it. Now if the Scout really goofs it or is having a ton of trouble. Politely interrupt him and say, "It is OK if you do not know it right now. Let's work on it because you need to know it correctly. Heck, you will probably be saying it for the rest of your life." Give him some helpful ways to memorize it such as reciting one line at a time and adding the next line (i.e. On my honor. On my honor, I will do my best. On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty. And so on.) Another way is to write down just the first two letters of each word in the Oath as a cheat sheet from which to practice (i.e. On my ho, I wi do my be...) Motivate the Scout to earn his badge and he will. And praise him accordingly when he completes his task. Does your troop recite the Oath and Law every troop meeting? The more times Scouts recite it correctly, the easier it will become. This is what my Girl Scout troop did right from the beginning when the girls were in kindergarten. We kept reciting it every meeting and had them go home to practice it. They all learned it. I do the same thing with my five-year-old son. We recite the Cub Scout Promise, Law, Motto, and what Webelos means every night at bedtime. My son needs the extra time to learn them so we are starting early. Good luck, Chazz Lees

People can not be Assistant Scoutmasters and Troop Committee Members at the same time. With one exception regarding the COR, the position you put on your application is the only one you hold. So if an Assistant Scoutmaster is performing the role that is usually a Troop Committee Member's job, then the Assistant Scoutmaster needs to make a choice. The Assistant Scoutmaster is going to stay an Assistant Scoutmaster and perform the Assistant Scoutmaster role or the person is going to resubmit an adult application to be a Troop Committee Member and perform that role. The same goes for a Troop Committee Member acting as an Assistant Scoutmaster. A choice needs to be made. If a troop does not have enough Assistant Scoutmasters or Troop Committee Members, the troop needs to do some recruiting. With that said, if everyone is doing the job for which they are registered, there will be no conflicts of interest. Of course, there are troops out there which have monthly adult meetings which all registered adults attending regardless of position. Many troops call these meetings Committee Meetings. Is it the way the program is supposed to be presented? No. Should it be changed? Yes. Can you change it? Yes, but you will need to be the top dog to do so effectively. As for recruiting merit badge counselors, I would say that we all as Scouters are responsible for recruiting them. If you come across someone who might be a good counselor for a particular merit badge or group of merit badges, ask if he/she would like to be a counselor? If the person says yes, get his/her information and contact the District or Council person on the Advancement Committee. I'm sure that the point person would be real appreciative. As for an online version of the Troop Committee Handbook, you will probably need to do a bunch of searches. You may find that troops have posted it on their websites, but that the document has been customized for their troop. Good luck, Chazz Lees

Eagle92, In theory, the endowment fund can not be touched. However, I have seen council dip into its endowment fund when it did not have enough for the operations. I am not sure if council has to pay it back like a 401K loan. All I know is that less interest is generated for the future. Chazz Lees

Scoutingagain, I guess the questions is did the AHG ask for a week long conference at Philmont or did the BSA offer Philmont up? If the AHG asked, then I wonder if the BSA would be willing for other group with which it has relationships to use Philmont. If the BSA proffered Philmont and it has never done so in the past, then I think someone in the BSA has an agenda for the AHG more so than it has with other partners. Regardless, I still think the BSA is into this relationship way too much than it should be and it is not a good fit for all of the BSA. Chazz Lees

Scoutingagain, The point is that the BSA is favoring the AHG over most other religiously exclusive groups with which it has partnered. How many other non-BSA groups have a weeklong conference dedicated to them at Philmont? How many of them are allowed to attend our training courses? I do not have a problem with them joining up with another group when there is the potential for new BSA members; however, I do have a problem with the BSA showing favoritism towards one group over others when many within the BSA can not join unconditionally (i.e. daughters of non-Christian BSA families who want the Scouting experience without the overtly Christian overtones.) Chazz Lees

Sailing, No offense here either and I too am an Eagle Scout. I have met hundreds of Eagle Scouts over the years; however, I have only met one Quartermaster Sea Scout. And he earned it long before I was born! I wished I had known about it when I was younger. I would have loved a chance at earning it. During the past year, I have heard about a half dozen Eagle Scouts and their parents in my area say that there is not much left for the Eagle to do in Scouting since they've made Eagle. I pointed out the Quartermaster Award and told them that their Eagle Scouts had to age 21 to earn it. No one has risen to the challenge. I've also mentioned the Ranger Award and Venturing Silver Award. Again, they do nothing. Like I said in the other thread, most everyday people only know Eagle Scout. They are not aware of the other awards which is too bad. Everyone seems brainwashed that Eagle is the pinnacle of all Scouting which we know that it is not. It would be nice if National put as much effort to let the general public know about Sea Scouting and Venturing as it has been doing with the Summit. Perhaps everyday people would appreciate more the accomplishments of Quartermaster and Venturing Silver. Chazz Lees(This message has been edited by CHLEes3rd)

When I enlisted in the Marines back in the mid-90's, Eagle Scouts were guaranteed E-2. I was promoted to E-2 at MEPS the morning I left and got paid as an E-2 throughout recruit training. I just wasn't officially a PFC until I earned the title of Marine. Chazz Lees

I found this online: http://www.navycs.com/navy-advanced-paygrade.html Eagle Scout, Sea Scout Quartermaster, Girl Scout Gold Award gets you pay grade E-3 in the U.S. Navy. Chazz Lees

Promotion to pay grade E-2 is available for Eagle Scout Award and Girl Scout Gold Award recipients I believe in all services. Promotion to E-3 in the Navy and Coast Guard for Sea Scouts who attain the Quartermaster Award. I am not aware of any promotions for the Venturing Silver Award or the Ranger Award. Chazz Lees

qwazse, Just so I understand you properly, four years ago you attended a pack meeting and asked a girl, whom I assume was a sibling of a Cub Scout, if she would be interested in camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming an Eagle if the option was available, and she said yes to everything but no to becoming an Eagle if the option was available. Do I have it right? Apparently she didn't mind that you told her that she had to wait a few years until she was Venturing age to join and finally do the camping, hiking, swimming, etc? At least she is finally a member doing the things she wants to do. I hope she succeeds. As for no demand because of Venturing Silver, the demand was there over thirty years ago when I was a young Boy Scout. Girls in my class used to tell me how unfair it was that they could not join our organization and do the things we did including earning Eagle. I think high school girls today are just wise enough not to let themselves think about ever becoming Eagles because in all likelihood it will never happen. What bother putting themselves through such misery worrying about it. They just take advantage of what is available. Maybe if Eagle was available to them, then maybe you would see the demand. As for the interview question of "I see Venturing Silver on your resume`. What's that?" I think that is a great question and will go a long way to help Venturing finally get the recognition it deserves from the general public once employers stop following up the candidate's explanation with "So it is kinda like being an Eagle Scout?" Yes, some Venturers and Girl Scouts have told me that is what their interviewer said. Chazz Lees