Cheerful Eagle

As I read this and the other current thread regarding Girls and Cub Scouting, I can't help but wondering... Do our fellow scouters understand that the Girl Scout USA program has significant differences from the BSA programs in not only philosophy and mission but also managerial style. It's not just, or even primarily, a gender difference. compare: From the GSUSA website: Girl Scouts of the USA is the worlds preeminent organization dedicated solely to girlsall girlswhere, in an accepting and nurturing environment, girls build character and skills for success in the real world. In partnership with committed adult volunteers, girls develop qualities that will serve them all their lives, like leadership, strong values, social conscience, and conviction about their own potential and self-worth. From the BSA national website: The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program. From the GSUSA website: Program Goals The Girl Scout program can change the way girls see the world and their place in it. Girls learn the importance of personal responsibility, the value of goal-setting, the spirit of teamwork, and the thrill of accomplishment. The Girl Scout program is based on the Girl Scout Promise and Law and four fundamental goals that encourage girls to: Develop to their full potential. Relate to others with increasing understanding, skill, and respect. Develop a meaningful set of values to guide their actions and to provide for sound decision-making. Contribute to the improvement of society. From the BSA website: Cub Scouting is a year-round family-oriented part of the BSA program designed for boys who are in first through fifth grades (or are 7, 8, 9, and 10 years of age). Parents, leaders, and organizations work together to achieve the 10 purposes of Cub Scouting: Character Development Spiritual Growth Good Citizenship Sportsmanship and Fitness Family Understanding Respectful Relationships Personal Achievement Friendly Service Fun and Adventure Preparation for Boy Scouts All the activities leaders plan and boys enjoy should relate to one or more of these purposes. These purposes help us achieve the overall aims of the BSA of character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. THERE ARE DIFFERENCES. It's not just about boys need to be with boys and girls need to be with girls. IMHO the differences are largly in valuing the relationship with the family (and all the icky boys therin), and adventure in the OUTDOORS.

I sincerely want to hear from all the den leaders out there. I'm a new trainer, and want to do all I can to help our new leaders be successful and have fun. What was your training experiance like? Are there areas of being a den leader that could have been covered better? What do you wish they'd covered but didn't?

I posted earlier: "As for girls being bored by the pack meeting. Funny, theyre already there with their brothers. Everybody gets to play. But they do wish their brothers and Moms and Dads could see them get their advancement awards and recognition patches, too." Scoutnut wrote: "So you want to invite your GS Troop to Pack meetings in order to award them their GS recognitions in front of their families? "Why not just hold a Court of Honor for your GS Troop? You can invite all of their families, have snacks & a ceremony presenting the girls with their recognitions. "Many GS Troops do this 2 or 3 times a year." Well, yes. Ok, I admit part of this is selfish on my part, but many families in my Pack and GS Troop are in the same position. How many meetings can we attend in a given month. It would be nice to streamline if at all possible. In addition, I get the court of honor thing, but why is it so important to recognize the young boys right away, but only recognize their female peers a couple of times a year? Yes, I know they're a bit more mature than the boys, but not THAT much more. Scoutnut wrote: "As to girls who enjoy the outdoors being in the minority in their Troops, that's just the way it is sometimes." Ok, I have to admit, that just gets my hackels up. I have been in the minority all my life. As a "tomboy", a chemistry major in College, and a camping enthusiast as an adult. When I was a youth, I left Girl Scouts for the same reason: too many crafts, not enough scouting. Oddly, I ended up in Cival Air Patrol (a program origionally started by BSA). But I missed out on all the backpacking, canoing and high adventure that my husband was exposed to as a scout. Yes, my daughter can get involved in Venturing when she's older, but I want to keep her engaged in souting until she's elgible.

There is an active thread in the Cub Scout Forum (Girls in Cub Scouts) that has been very interesting. I am posting my last contribution here, as I'd like as much input on the topic as I can get! Please put your "Thinking Day" cap on, and contribute to the conversation! [posted in Forums:cub scouting:girls in cub scouts] Thank you, Den3702 for starting this thread. And, thank you to all the scouters who have responded; your feedback truly is a gift. On the one hand, we dont want to make the girls second class cub scouts. Much of your feedback is a challenge not to shirk my responsibility as a Girl Scout Leader, and it is well taken. As we all know, developing a youth led troop sounds easier than it actually is. As my girls are maturing, I need to constantly be willing to step up to the challenge of handing them the reins and enabling them to lead. In fact, the differences between girls and boys developmentally at this stage I think would increase the difficulties of running such a unit. I have no interest in trying to get them to pull in the same yoke, as it were. On the other hand, girls with serious interest in outdoor skills, science and technology, are often in the minority in their troop. The Junior program is loaded on the social sciences and light on the natural sciences. So it can be difficult to steer a troop in the direction of outdoor adventure. In addition, whether sanctioned by National or not, many men feel unwelcome, even strongly discouraged from being involved in their daughters troop. Family involvement is not a value stressed in leadership training, nor is it facilitated by traditional GS troop structure. This makes it difficult to attract scouts whose Mom may not be interested in camping, but Dad would really like to help out. I suppose this is where I have the most dissonance with GS culture/mission: I do not believe that girls need to be hothoused in order to grow to their full potential. Also, interaction between troops (usually around 8-15 girls) is not facilitated, so theres little cross-pollination between leaders or interaction between girls in different program levels. As for girls being bored by the pack meeting. Funny, theyre already there with their brothers. Everybody gets to play. But they do wish their brothers and Moms and Dads could see them get their advancement awards and recognition patches, too.

Thank you, Den3702 for starting this thread. And, thank you to all the scouters who have responded; your feedback truly is a gift. On the one hand, we dont want to make the girls second class cub scouts. Much of your feedback is a challenge not to shirk my responsibility as a Girl Scout Leader, and it is well taken. As we all know, developing a youth led troop sounds easier than it actually is. As my girls are maturing, I need to constantly be willing to step up to the challenge of handing them the reins and enabling them to lead. In fact, the differences between girls and boys developmentally at this stage I think would increase the difficulties of running such a unit. I have no interest in trying to get them to pull in the same yoke, as it were. On the other hand, girls with serious interest in outdoor skills, science and technology, are often in the minority in their troop. The Junior program is loaded on the social sciences and light on the natural sciences. So it can be difficult to steer a troop in the direction of outdoor adventure. In addition, whether sanctioned by National or not, many men feel unwelcome, even strongly discouraged from being involved in their daughters troop. Family involvement is not a value stressed in leadership training, nor is it facilitated by traditional GS troop structure. This makes it difficult to attract scouts whose Mom may not be interested in camping, but Dad would really like to help out. I suppose this is where I have the most dissonance with GS culture/mission: I do not believe that girls need to be hothoused in order to grow to their full potential. Also, interaction between troops (usually around 8-15 girls) is not facilitated, so theres little cross-pollination between leaders or interaction between girls in different program levels. As for girls being bored by the pack meeting. Funny, theyre already there with their brothers. Everybody gets to play. But they do wish their brothers and Moms and Dads could see them get their advancement awards and recognition patches, too.

I'm a registered leader in both organizations, and coincidentally ;-) a mother of two boys and a girl. My daughter is really happy to be identified as a Girl Scout, but as she has grown older (now finishing 3rd grade) she has frequently asked why the Girl Scouts don't do as much "fun stuff" as the Cub Scouts. Girl Scouts have 1 campout a year -- no familiy, please. Cub Scouts have AT LEAST 2 family camp weekends each school year. Girl Scouts have holiday sing alongs and ice skating parties. Cub Scouts have the Pinewood Derby and Snow Play Day. Girls Scouts have (generally) single age/grade units. No family involvement. Cub Scouts get their dens together every month and share with their families. Here's my idea.... As a GS troop leader, I could blend what I've learned from being a Webelos leader with the expectations of a Junior Girl Scout troop -- up the bar scoutcraft-wise. As a Cub Master, why couldn't I invite the GS troop to our pack meetings, if not every one, at least periodically? Since a pack isn't "boy led", I think it could work and not be disruptive to either program. What do ya'll think?