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I'll give you that the Scoutmaster is in charge of the advancement program within the troop but since the requirements for earning the Eagle rank/award should be the same for all troops - the Scoutmaster should not be setting the bar. I was a Scoutmaster to around 15-20 boys who earned the Eagle rank and I can honestly say that some stuck around to earn silver palms and remained active in troop (youth) leadership and some never returned after they earned the rank except for their ECOH. One of the best Scouts I've ever had the privilege to work with never got past 2nd Class and was a great PL and SPL. The Eagle rank doesn't make the Scout but it is a nice recognition for the Scouts who have completed the requirements.

I wonder what the statistics are for owning a HDTV?

Fred Johnson, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think we should be handing out the rank like candy but I don't think we should be expecting perfection either. I think the fact that being an Eagle, along with the process of earning an Eagle, influences behavior - mostly in the positive direction.

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning. To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea. A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Well I have seen even 2nd Grade Cubs kill a wild bore with their bare hands. They can only sit still for so long.

Jambo has slightly older age requirements but is not considered "high adventure" exactly although it is now held at a BSA high adventure base (Summit/Bechtel Reserve). Jambo does not have busses like at A.P Hill. There was a BMI requirement (31.9 or less). Surprise - West Virginia is not flat! For myself, I participated in the Bataan Death March (2005 Jambo where approx. 5 deaths occured and multiple hundreds evacuated due to heat stress). I'm all in favor of the current trend to put slightly more emphasis on physical fitness for both the boys and adults. It got to a point that the "default" Scoutmaster was an obese coffee drinking male in his mid-fifties. That was not me at all. I don't drink coffee.

Later day saints? Some Mormons are very punctual. Latter-day Saints is what you may have meant. Let's eat Grandma!

Smoking that pint of tea again?

Barry, what you say may be true but the only morality I get comes from my fellow man. Exactly what is the conduit that you received your morality education from God? Even the Fruits of the Spirit (Galations) can be argued that this came from man. Just because a man tells me that it came from God does not exhibit proof to me. That's why "faith" is such a big deal in almost 100% of religions. P.S. Yeah, with Internet Explorer any "enter" kicks me out too.

International Left Handers Day!

First of all, the original poster asked if there was such a policy on this topic. He was not asking anyones opinion on the subject. Now, ADCin NC answered the question. It seems very clear cut to me that what the leaders of this unit are doing is in violation of the Charter and Byaws of Article IX. Article IX. Policies and Definitionsâ€â€From the Charter and Bylaws Section 1. Declaration of Religious Principle, clause 1.The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.†The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Section 1. Activities, clause 2. The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the twelfth point of the Scout Law, reading, “Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.†Section 1. Freedom, clause 3. In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church. Section 1. Leaders, clause 4. Only persons willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles shall be entitled to certificates of leadership in carrying out the Scouting program.

One of the many highlights I had as a Scoutmaster was to arrange for our troop to go the the Scoutmasters Council Camporee at West Point. Every year the Cadet Scoutmasters' Council hosts a camporee at Lake Frederick for approximately 6,000 scouts and it is by invitation only. It was interesting for me to see the Cadets - some only two or so years older than the Scouts put this on every year. It was also an experience to see soldiers - trained in crowd control and not in Scouting - tell a group of scouts not to block a pathway at Ft. A.P. Hill. It is one thing to have a middle aged, overweight, "Dad" Scoutmaster ask you to do something as opposed to a physically fit, BDU wearing, M-16 carrying, 25 yr old soldier barking orders at you! Scouting does not want to be, nor should it be, a paramilitary organization. Yes, both Scouts, soldiers and marines may find it useful to have skills to survive in the outdoors. Also, due to the fact that a retired British officer who just happened to be a war hero was the founder of the scouting organization we do have some military accoutrements in our program. But, I think the Vietnam backlash and Operation Iraqi Liberation/Freedom hero worship is over. Now, I think the country is suffering from war fatigue - we've been fighting in either Iraq or Afghanistan for more than a decade.

I could create a poll that asks "Do you like ice cream?" and then in the fine print define ice cream as as frozen water topped with cool whip - and I'd still bet I'd get a ton more "likes" than "hates." Folks are going to define what the BSA represents themselves and for a poll that resides in this forum where the vast majority are BSA members, well the poll outcome should be obvious.

I am not naive enough to believe wholeheartedly in the BSA statement nor the forchange.com statement so I won't be signing any petitions or lobbying an BSA executives. However, it is troubling that this has occurred - you'd think that grown men Kuska and the council leaders could work something out.

First of all, the article makes no mention of atheists. However, the use of the Star of David was objected to by the Freedom from Religion Foundation. That is a foundation that works primarily with the isssue of separation of church and state (1st Amendment violations).

Sure they can, they'd just be wrong.

Kahuna, I couldn't disagree more with your comments and I was not disturbed at all by Obama's comments. He did not imply that the police, jury, defense, prosecutor or judge did anything wrong in this case. I think what his statement may have done is tamp down some of the self-righteous "100 city protest" of the case and put out a call to keep all demonstrations non-violent. I appreciate that. He reminded folks who may have forgotten what the typical black American male youth experience in this country. I think he was also trying to set expectations that the federal government, in all probability won't really do anything in this case. Yes, they will examine what happened but I believe he is setting expectations that don't hold your breath waiting for the federal courts to bring up charges.

The USA is a great country founded on basic religious principles (not necessarily Christian) but populated with a multitude of "not so great" citizens that do lie, cheat, steal, beat and conduct themselves in other nefarious ways. Be careful of the 1933 Germany comment, we may not be a nation under God, but we surely do follow Godwin's Law.

I'm left-handed - i.e. not normal Please don't hate or judge me for it. I was born to excel on a baseball field.

I think that, at least for Boy Scouts - all Scouts feel stigmatized because their parents are - well they are their parents! Being embarrassed about your parents is a time honored teen-age rite of passage. Now if one was the Scoutmaster - that makes it even worse!

I don't think polygamy will be an issue. If gay marriage is universally allowed, all adults now have an equal chance to choose a singular life partner so I don't think a man who want to marry a 12 year old or a woman who wants to marry a horse or polygamy or any other such nonsense will be an issue.

My best friend, a non-catholic (non-Catholic?) sent his boys to a Jesuit run high school. Why? Because he thought that they would get a good education. I had my two sons go through the BSA program (Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts) because I thought it would do them and myself good. Both even earned their age appropriate religious youth emblem award (Light of Christ, Parvuli Dei and for one of them Ad Altare Dei). Maybe because their mother pushed them? Maybe because they thought having medals and knots on their uniform was cool? Anyway, my point is that the DRP was anything I was that enamored with or against so either way I thought the program would be good for my boys.

I highly doubt that Zimmerman shot the Trayvon Martin because he was black. I think folks are forgetting a few things and not thinking analytically. One, as jblake47 and others have tried to point out - jury trials such as these do not have an objective to prove someone innocent. The judges direction to the jury was to determine if George Zimmerman acted in self-defense or in legalese - if the death of Trayvon Martin resulted from the justifiable use of deadly force and that a person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. The jury was also instructed to judge Zimmerman by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used, that the danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. There was conflicting testimony - there was very different testimony by several witnesses stating who was the aggressor. So, for me - concluding that there was reasonable doubt was the correct verdict. That doesn't mean that Zimmerman acted properly. Also, I believe the jury was 100% female, as was the Circuit judge and no one is claiming gender issues? (It was not 100% white as some have claimed. Five where white and one Hispanic.) The fact that Trayvon Martin did not simply go home or that Zimmerman should have stayed in his car or not followed Martin are irrelevant to the case at hand. It did not matter how the confrontation came to be - if Zimmerman was profiling, if Martin was looking for a fight - it only mattered that when Zimmerman fired a bullet through Trayvon's heart, was the appearance of danger so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person believe that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force?

DWise1 - God and religions are funny things. They mean many different things to many different folks. The BSA has their declaration of religious principle stated on their application. You keep giving what appears to be a circular argument to me - you apparently did or said something that someone felt was in violation of membership. Possibly, you posted something that upset an individual and they (rightly or wrongly) looked for a reason to kick you out of the BSA. Sort of like tax evasion for Al Capone? I stated my opinion on the BSA's previous stance on avowed homosexuality on this forum but I did not "preach" that to Scouts, at roundtable events or bring it up at my Wood Badge training. Was that due to cowardice? Prudence? I'm sure everyone has their opinion. Bottom line, for the general public the DRP, Scout Oath and Law (I'm Boy Scout oriented) are the guidelines. Does the BSA have not so public position papers? I'm sure they do but I'm not interested in picking a fight. Now, is any of the following untrue? From what I gather from the above, no secret regulations were used. I don't see the issue of "supreme being" relevant in the decision. P.S. Anyone else ever gotten this error message?

Fred - as an administrator I almost went in and edited your post for clarity. Please tell me, you used "generic" many times in your post. Was that your intention or were you really implying "genetic?" For this particular protestant and engineer - I struggle with the concepts of man having free will in concert with the concept of an all knowing God.