acco40

Similar to KoreaScouter, during my Wood Badge course (Wood Badge for the 21st Century) the first three days the males and females slept in different bunk areas. During the next three days, we slept in tents with our patrols, one patrol to a camp site. My patrol (Da Bears) had one female. I think it teaches respect and courtesy having a female (or more) in the patrol. Yes the men act different in the presence on a female (mostly improved behavior). Plus, if a female desires to become an adult leader in a troop, she needs to be comfortable in a camp site with other men. By the way, all slept in their own tents. A question I have about having the females sleep near the staff. It is my understanding that one evening, the staff IS NOT PRESENT. Did this occur? If so, where did the females "students" spend the night? Now, back to my ticket ... (This message has been edited by acco40)

... and if you continue this blasphemous topic I will hold my breath until I turn blue, so there! P.S. And Merry Christmas to all!

Background checks, I have no problem with them at all. The Council that I belong to has been performing background checks utilizing the County Sheriff's department for years. My concerns are what they will do with the information they receive. Should any action be taken if a personal bankruptcy is found? What about spousal abuse? What about a firearms violation? What about drunken driving convictions twenty years ago? Divorces? Child custody disputes? Traffic violations? The list can go on and on. There is a trade-off between erring on the the side of safety and erring on the side of acceptance. BSA should be very clear on what the groundrules of the background check are.

With your vast knowledge of the "Morman" church, maybe you ought to know how to spell it and that the term is not welcomed by all.

As with Wolf, no arrow points can be earned until the rank badge is earned. What I found with Bear, it makes a difference what requirements you count toward Bear and what are counted toward arrow points. The grouping can make the difference. When I was a Bear den leader, I applied all of the requirements I could toward Bear first. There is excellent freeware tracking software for Wolf, Bear and Webelos which make the tracking of advancement very easy. Send me a private email and I can email you a Bear spreadsheet if you wish. As with repairs, I believe some of craft requirements can be counted multiple times. For example, if the scout makes a three totally different crafts, you can count that requirement three times.

I for one, don't believe God is a nationalist.

One of the requirements for Eagle (and Star and Life) is to "Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life." If the boy in question follows what Rooster decribes as minimal effort, he should not pass the Scout Spirit requirement. By all means, welcome him back.

Traditions are just that, traditions and not rules. We let the parents of our 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts plan the Blue & Gold Banquet (a BIRTHDAY PARTY FOR CUB SCOUTS) which traditionally we use as our Pack meeting for the month of February. During Pack meetings we formally present awards. For the Blue & Gold, this includes the AOL award. We also have a cross-over ceremony for the boys who are going on to Boy Scouts. We present all 2nd Year Webelos with a "Boy Scout" compass. We present the boys who have earned it the AOL award. We present the boys who have decided to join a troop a Boy Scout handbook and cover. We invite a representative from the Troop that they are entering (usually the SPL & SM) to attend and welcome the boys. They (the troops) usually present the boys with the red epaulets. Usually, receiving the troop neckerchief, hat, etc. is done at a Troop induction ceremony (a Troop event) and not at a Cub Scout event like the B&G.

I know that this is going to sound very pessimistic, but when looking for a troop, talk to families that have left that troop. Remember, changing troops is a fairly natural occurance so don't be alarmed when you find out the troop has had a few boys go to other troops. However, talk to the boy and his parents about why they left and you may uncover a pattern. Yes, please start looking in the spring while your son still have a year left as a Webelos Cub Scout. Especially if you son plans to cross over in February or before.

Robk, I share some of your concerns. You can teach your children what is and what you believe is not sinful in your own home. I too, would have a problem with any scout leader, homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, celibate, eunuch, etc. teaching my son that any sexual act is sinful or not sinful. There is no place in Scouting to teach value judgements about sex acts and sexual behavior. Read the Scoutmaster Handbook. It details how to handle questions about sex if a scout brings them up. I agree with it 100%. A leader should never bring up the topic on his own. Assuming you are a Christian, I take it that you believe in the concept of original sin. Therefore, EVERYONE is sinful. Should we ban all humans as Scout leaders? Of course not. Why not judge homosexual leaders by their actions as leaders? What a novel idea!

Why? You are lumping all homosexuals together. Yes there are sexual deviants, both homosexual and heterosexual. You might say that this is necessary to protect the safety of the boys? If you really had the boys safety as your number one concern, how about banning all male leaders from scouting? Studies have shown again and again that the overwhelming factor in almost all sex crimes is testosterone. Very few females molest boys. I've got a better idea. Why not admit leaders based on our current criteria, using background checks, interviews, etc. and not sexual orientation AND follow youth protection guidelines? I would like anyone to tell me the occurence of any sexual abuse of a scout when youth protection guidelines were followed. (Really, I would not, but I don't know of any.)(This message has been edited by acco40)

May I offer a comment? I in no way am trying to blame the victim but I don't think you or the den leader handled the situation very well. The first public response to the boys was stated as "She (the den leader after you had talked with her and made the assumption that the cards were stolen) promptly announced that my son's cards had been taken and we needed to search the room or who ever had them needed to give them back." The natural reaction to such an announcement is shame and denial. If you offered the offender a "way out" such as stating, my son doesn't seem to be able to find his Yu Gi Oh cards. Has anyone seen them? I would be very thankful to anyone who could help us find them. These type comments let the offender have a way to return the cards without being ostracized. Some will disagree with this approach but at this age, nine years old, the boys are still learning right and wrong. When asked point blank if it is wrong to take from others, they will all nod in agreement, yes. However, when actually faced with a tempting "offer", free Yu Gi Oh cards, it may be a different story. My younger children always asked to bring a toy, Pokemon cards, etc. to their older brothers Pack meetings, to the store, etc. and many times come home without them. Usually, they set them down, and forgot them but in their eyes they were "stolen." I used it as a lesson to teach them that it is not always appropriate to bring their "stuff" to all events. If you study child psychology, you will find out that children have a much deeper attachment to their toys that most adults realize. They are not just possessions, but something that actually defines their being. The loss of a toy can be very traumatic to a young child.

I'm with NJ. I donate much more money to the United Way than I do to FOS. However, I donate much more time, supplies, effort, etc. to the BSA. Why the BSA doesn't allow homosexual leaders mystifies me.

Background checks are not the answer. Following the youth protection guidelines is the answer. To make sure the guidelines are followed, all parents and youth should be aware of the major points, for example two deep leadership. With two deep leadership the chances of molestation and exposure go way way down. I agree 100% with eisley's comments, for youth protection to work parents (and scouts) need to know about it.(This message has been edited by acco40)

One easy thing that our Pack does is make the Blue and Gold banquet planning the responsibility of the 2nd year Webelos den parents. That is when they cross over in our pack and the majority of the pomp and circumstance is for them so have their parents involved. I would not recommend having the CC and CM be a husband and wife team. We circulate a sign-up sheet at the beginning of every scout year asking what voluteer position that each parent will fill this year. Some years it gets a great response, others not so good. Don't try to take on too much yourself. I know what can happen when that occurs! My wife and I have been den leader, assistant den leader, committee chair, unit commissioner, assistant scoutmaster, scoutmaster, popcorn chair (unit & district!), pinewood derby chair, blue & gold banquet chair, etc.). That one hour a week is really a L O N G hour!

You ask for badge ideas (i.e. Webelos badge) but do you mean ideas for the various (20) activity pins? Look at your council resources, i.e. program helps come to mind. I think many of you are confusing "signing" a requirement and "doing" a requirement. Only the Webelos den leader can sign off on a requirement. However, if a parent wants to tell the den leader (preferably, the scout should inform the den leader) that the Webelos Cub Scout has completed a requirement (i.e. I fixed a flat tire on my bicycle) the den leader can choose to sign-off on that requirement, no questions asked, or the den leader may choose to ask the scout about the repair in an attempt to determine if the requirement has been met. The Webelos program is NOT a transition from parents to den leaders signing off. It is an abrupt change. Only the den leader may sign off. Previously, for Cubs (Bobcat, Tiger, Wolf, Bear) an Akela could sign off on requirements (i.e. parent, teacher, minister, grandparent, den leader, etc.). The Webelos program does help to transition the Webelos Cub Scout into the Boy Scout program.(This message has been edited by acco40)

The ability to challenge one's background check is key. "Those who are rejected will be given the opportunity to review and challenge any adverse information." I don't go for mandatory anything. A seventeen year old boy can have sex with his seventeen year old girl friend (and future wife) and because of his actions be convicted of a sex crime in many states. Does this make him unfit to be a Scouter twenty years later? Maybe, maybe not. Jimmy Carter was a former SM who admitted he "lusted in his heart." A definite sex "crime" by some guy who use to write on stone tablets. I for one, would not mind Mr. Carter helping out my troop as a registered Scouter!

During my Wood Badge (for the 21st Century) training, I was the Chaplain's Aide for the day they taught us how to put on a ecumenical service. I thought the lessons learned were very apropos.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Official policy? There are no policies on ceremony to my knowledge. A boy earns his Arrow of Light (or Tiger, Wolf, Bear, etc. badge) and the Pack can mail him the badge, make him go buy it, or lavish a town hall parade in his honor. The BSA doesn't regulate other than to state that awards should be earned and awarded in a timely fashion. AOL is unique in that it is the only award that I try to SLOW down the boys in earning so they can all get it at our cross-over ceremony. The 2nd year Webelos cross-over ceremony should be just that, a ceremony for the Cub Scouts who are crossing over into Boy Scouts. In reality, most Packs combine AOL awards (which long ago many thought the boys had to join atroop to earn) and honor those who are actually crossing over. Of course you can honor the boys. My Pack has the 2nd year Webelos parents organize, plan and run the Blue and Gold Banquet which is where/when we do our ceremony for graduating and crossing over. We will honor the boys regardless if AOL is earned or if they cross over or not. Of course we will not misrepresent anything. By the way, look into the "Super Webelos" patch that the boys can earn. I believe the requirements are earning all activiity pins. How would you handle a cross-over ceremony, from a logistics point of view, if the Webelos Den leader is also the Scoutmaster of the troop that the boys are joining? At my den cross-over, I'm going to "Cub it" all the way and have one of the ASM's fill in for me. It will be my last official act as a den leader an I will savor it. At the first troop meeting for the boys, I can put on my SM "hat" and formally welcome them to the troop. A nice problem to have!

kwc57, students study science? No, not necessarily. Religious education students study religion. Mathematics students study math. Science students study science. When I took a science class in college, the first paragraph of page one mentioned creation as a theory (one or two sentences) and stated that the science book would concentrate on evolution. Enough said. If my son or daughter signed up to take a science class, I would be appalled if biblical creationism was taught in depth. Robk, your statement, "The government, state and federal, has no Constitutional authority for almost everything it does today." confuses me. Unless the government (at any level) conflicts with the constitution, it has the authority to do anything it wants! Rooster, saying what someone says in private or public doesn't matter is comical. "I did not have sex with that woman!" Does that ring a bell? Especially for politicians, which the founding fathers were, what is said in public is for public consumption and I would put much more emphasis on private communication.(This message has been edited by acco40)

The first rule we emphasize in our Pack is that the den leaders choose the size of their den, not the Cubmaster (who should be little more than an emcee at Pack meetings) or the leader of the Pack, the Committee Chair. A rule I have for my den is that parents are welcome if they contribute to the den meeting, if not, they may (should) leave. I found that having two parents gossip, exchange recipes, talk about their son's school work, etc. is extremely disruptive even if not heard by the boys. Also, some boys act much better when mom and dad are NOT present. Some just the opposite. The biggest hurdle I had when the boys were Wolves was that MY rules differed from the rules at their house but they were expected to be followed none the less. The best method I've used to quiet down an attention seeking boy was to put him on stage! If he talks while others are talking, put him front and center and let him talk. They usually get very quiet.

Also, especially for a pack, don't forget that you can set up an UDA (Unit Debit Account??) at your council office. Your pack can deposit money with council and then essentially use a debit card to purchase badges, books, etc. We only have two people who can write checks but we have about five or six who can use the UDA account.

ASM, I am curious why you feel a Pack committee and a Troop committee are such different entities. I'm involved in both a Troop (as SM, wife Advancement Chair) and Pack (Webelos den leader, wife CC). I guess I'm a little sensitive but I've witnessed that many involved at the Boy Scout level have somewhat of a superior attitude concerning Cub Scouts. The programs are very much different but I would not label one as better or worse. I've seen Bob White's opinion on committee voting, i.e. not needed, and partially agree. However, I don't see the Pack and Troop committee functions as much different from each other. They may handle different things but both exist to help support the programs. It is my experience that a Pack committee works with a much bigger budget by the way.

I tend to agree with Rooster on this one (I think). Most of our countries law were based on J-C teachings. What I feel many do not understand, is that many individuals can fully embrace these values and be "non-believers/atheists." As for teaching these values, public institutions need to tread lightly. As always, the devil is in the details.

Yes the owner has the legal right to set off fireworks on his property (in accordance with Canadian law) and yes, the BSA does not approve. But the individual in question politely asked for permission from me and I have gracefully denied permission and no problem exists. Again thanks for your feedback.