acco40

Honestly, it's the non-USA uniform that makes me look fat! Do I have to wear it? Where does my Atheist patch go on the shirt? If I wore my OA sash on my belt it would be more of a vertical stripe than horizontal and everyone knows that vertical stripes makes me look thinner.

I didn't really see anything I didn't really already know - I think the crux is the private/public dichotomy. I liked the Scoutmaster/Eagle Scout - he made a case with out the "entertainment value" of Penn & Teller. What was not presented totally was that the policy doesn't exclude gays, it excludes homosexuals that exhibit "homosexual conduct" - which is not explicitly defined. I think that is a subtle but important distinction.

When I went to Double H (run by Philmont staff but no longer used by the BSA) the medical history form had a height and weight requirement. Unlike Mr. Allen, I'm vertically challenged and at age 51 I needed to either grow another two inches or lose 8 lbs to qualify (I chose the latter). I lost the weight to come in at around 199 lbs at 5'7". I also did some practice hikes (full backpack, 10 plus miles a day, etc.) and some aerobic training. I was the oldest adult by about 10 years and the scouts were high school athletes (three football players, two wrestlers, one track/cross country, one skier) so I was bringing up the rear so to speak. My "shape" wasn't a health issue but a "fun" issue. Add the elevation (approx. 7,000 ft) and heat, one does tire easily. As I explained to my 15 and almost 17 year old sons on the trek with me, dad is always carrying an extra backpack around with him! I and the crew did fine on the trek but if I had to do it over again I would have dropped an extra 10 lbs or more. I don't recall being weighted in New Mexico but they did take our blood pressure immediately before the trek began. If one doesn't make the recommended height/weight requirements, you are doing your crew a disservice trying to skirt the issue.

Now, if we could just get those boys away from the TV, computer, PS3, Xbox, etc. . . . I work on average 50-60 hours a week. My wife is not employed. Her idea of a vacation is to go somewhere and have highly schedules activities. My idea of a vacation to stay at home and do nothing. Yes, parents need to realize that children need completely unstructured time to just do what their imagination drives them to do. Each youth is different and some really get into the travel squads, bible schools, robotic camps, scouting, etc. but many just like to "chillax." On our troop outings, I would work with the SPL and PL and sometimes, especially for extended weekend outings, having "downtime" wasn't such a bad thing. Some of their best memories were made during this time.

First, I'm coming at this from a Scoutmaster's perspective. 1) You used your son as a pawn - not wise. If your son needed a break, he should learn to speak up. An experienced SPL should also learn to recognize the fact that some of the scouts were lagging and sought solutions. Now, allow me to get on my soapbox and once again state that this is another example on why I believe peer based patrols and patrol functions are best. When I was an active Scoutmaster, the troop did a couple of strenuous hikes. It was not a troop event but only for the more experience and physically capable scouts and scouters. Having 17 year old scouts along with 11 year old scouts on a hike is either going to stress the youngsters or bore the oldsters. 2) As an assistant scoutmaster, you should not have asked for a buddy check nor given your son specific and unique instructions. The biggest irritant I had as a scoutmaster were scouts who looked over to dad after every request from the SA, SPL, PL, etc. to see if it was okay. You are not teaching your son the skills necessary for independence when you do this. 3) The other SAs actions were not proper but at least he did apologize. I don't see any example of how that SA "attacked" your son - physically or verbally. Your actions and words "I won't tolerate" could be viewed as just as aggressive in my opinion. 4) The good news is that the other SA recognized his actions as a mistake. Do you recognize your actions as a mistake? I think going to the UC, DE, police etc. on this single incident is absurd. As a father, I'd be more interested in my son's view on all of this. I would not come out and ask him directly but you should be able to judge how he feels about the above incidents and I'd do what he prefers - try to get along with the existing troop and its structure or look for another unit.

Cito & Tokala - do the SPL and ASPL in your troop wear patrol patches?

The SAs (assistant scoutmasters) should perform the duties assigned to them by the Scoutmaster - not act as independent "vice-scoutmasters." The scoutmaster senior patrol leader relationship should be tuned by the scoutmaster to the appropriate level of interaction, oversight, etc. based on the skill level of the SPL. The SPL should be feel free to impart two-way communication - not just be on the receiving end but keep in mind that the scoutmaster - SPL relationship is much like a coach - player and/or teacher - student relationship. They are not peers.

Did they ask the hawk about her sexual orientation?

I think sewing on a temporary patch is self defeating. Some of the adults on this forum remind me of my son. He was very proud of earning the Paul Bunyan Woodsman award. As his Scoutmaster, I presented the award/patch to him at a COH. At home he asked me where it was supposed to go on his uniform. I told it, it isn't suppose to go on your uniform. Well he didn't like it and at an OA meeting he met a Scout who had the patch sewn on above the BSA knots he had earned (above right pocket). Well, I will say that was one patch he had sewn on himself! That was a battle I chose not to pick.

And, like my son's Cubmaster, if not active, one may wear insignia that indicate that they were a member of the OA.

Personally, I mock practice boards of review. If one would study up on the reasons for holding BORs (for advancement) one would not be debating who should be eligible to serve on the board, proper attire or the need for practice boards.

I've got a novel approach, why don't we let the CO do their job and choose the Scouters of their unit. I think we should start with a basis of trust.

Should the student tailor his or her actions to accommodate the educational system or should the educational system tailor their teaching approach to accommodate students? In most elementary schools girls do better. They tend to have better manual dexterity (i.e. can hold a pencil/crayon better) at an earlier age than males. Girls also tend to read social cues and have more of a capability to work well in groups. Males have a more difficult time sitting still and quietly for extended periods of time. Look at the top 5% of students at most public high schools - they are overwhelmingly female (grade based). Now look at the top 1% of SAT/ACT scores - they are dominated by males. Each sex has there own strengths and weaknesses as a whole and many individuals don't fit that norm. Like the other topics on Chinese or USA apple juice - choice is good!

My attitude? You mean my attitude that thinks having a choice is a good thing? Free trade is a good thing. As for the Olympic uniforms, yes, they are designed by an United States of America company (Ralph Lauren), have commercialism on them (polo player) and since the US Olympic uniforms and athletes are supported by a private organization (like the BSA is a private organization) cost is a factor and I think it is a cheap shot for politicians who criticize the US Olympic committee for making frugal choices. I have no idea if the US Olympic committee approached any US firms or not but my guess is they pursued what they thought was the best deal for them - just like the BSA. As an American, you are welcome to compete for the business of the BSA and/or the US Olympic team if you wish.

In America, we have the opportunity not only to buy apple juice but to buy it from either the USA or China. That's why I love the USA!

I don't own a "Centennial Uniform" but I don't think they have been proven to be of inferior quality. I bought the "switchback" pants and was satisfied with them. Before, some folks would wear the field uniform in the field (camping) but they were really never practical for that. They were "troop meeting" and "COH" appropriate attire in my book. The Centennial Uniform is an attempt to have a uniform better suited to outdoor activity. It is better but for real outdoor use, I'm more of an REI, Columbia, etc. type guy. As for pricing, yeah most things now (excluding electronics) cost more than they did in the past - uniforms included. For example, the youth pants for Boy Scouts now come in three price ranges - $39.00 (micro-fiber), $34.95 (canvas convertible) or $23.88 (switchbacks). These prices are actually less than what I paid for my sons about ten years ago.

Not too many can earn of living athletically. Not many folks get paid to be a Scout. However, school sports and Scouting can do wonders for boys. My boys did high school football, wrestling, track & field and cross country (basketball was left for my 4 ft 11 in daughter!). They were also earned their eagle rank - and daughter bronze in Girl Scouts. Adolescent boys will put down things they don't understand, are jealous of, and are just not a mature bunch as a whole. I've lost Scouts because someone said it was lame (usually middle school kids with very little self confidence) and also gained boys because the star football player was in our troop. Get over it. Boys make a lot of stupid choices at this age. They may live to regret them but most are not life threatening.

Raising funds via popcorn sales is not effortless! For our troop, we gave parents who were cash poor a chance to raise funds by selling popcorn. We gave parents who were time poor, a chance to open their wallets and provide funds directly to the troop. But via either vehicle, a set amount of funds were expected to be given to the unit by each family for the operation of the troop.

64.3 hrs. As for Eagle Courts of Honor, when I was the Scoutmaster I told the parents of Eagle Scouts that I would assist them via ceremony, etc. in any fashion they wished and the troop would provide at no cost to them the Eagle neckerchief, medal and parent and mentor pins. Some parents desired and bore the expense for lavish recognitions and others for simple affairs and some no ceremony at all.

Government support? Please, don't tell the Supreme Court or Merlyn! :-) My high school buddy went to the national jamboree in Idaho. I thought scouting was something I couldn't afford - and I was correct at the time (parents had no money and I was saving my money for college over Scouts and other things). I think it's nice that Philmont, Sea Base, Boundary Waters and now Summit exist but they are not "required." Almost everywhere in the USA is less than 25 miles to some sort of park, forest, farmers vacant lot, etc. to allow low cost camping. One of the draws of Scouting should be the enticement to the boys that they get to lead - and then we allow them to do so! This is not emphasized enough - both as an inducement or allowed to happen in my opinion.

Buckeyes have reefer trucks? I take back all those negative comments I've ever uttered against those children of the nuts. As for your brother, tell him to get a good nights rest, eat a well balanced diet and don't over do it and he should be feeling better. (This message has been edited by acco40)

Have half of your unit set up a lemonade stand in "civilian" clothes and the other half set up 100 yards away in their field uniform and see who raises more funds. That is why the BSA has a vested interest in how their brand, not yours, is being used to raise funds for your unit - and not them. They don't necessarily expect a cut from your fundraiser but they don't want to catch flack from the "fruit smoothie" store that lost business because you set up your lemonade stand next to their store.

Where does it all end? I live in southeastern Michigan - a state that has had its economy shocked by the decline in manufacturing. Tonight, watching the MLB All-Star game, I see a commercial, narrated by Tim Allen, promoting "Michigan" milk. Heaven forbid I buy that rancid Buckeye milk and support another state! If someone can make a product on the other side of the planet and bring it to my doorstep with better or equal quality as a local manufacturer for a lower price, why should I support inefficiency? Yes, child labor, working conditions, pollution, etc. all enter into it too so it really isn't that simple but unless it is a national security issue (I think we should have domestic bullet manufacturing for example) I have no issue buying foreign products. I moved to Michigan from St. Louis. I get a kick out of all these auto workers who chide folks for buying "foreign" cars. Then I notice them drinking a Heineken, Dos Equis or other "foreign" beer and point out to them that in St. Louis, drinking a non-Anheuser-Busch alcoholic beverage was considered just as "traitorous" as buying a Toyota in Detroit. They just laughed but it was true and they saw no irony in their statements. Now, Chrysler is owned by an Italian firm, and Anheuser-Busch by a Belgium firm but I still like Busch beer and Dodge Chargers and have no remorse buying either.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I had an adult (drinking soda, overweight, on antibiotics, working in the hot sun) go into heat stroke - vomiting, disoriented, etc. We had him in a cold shower but to no avail - nothing that an hour on IVs and air conditioning couldn't "cure." I will gently remind the boys but guess what, getting bitten by mosquitoes is a great reminder to bring bug spray, getting a painful sunburn is great learning tool in assisting one to remember to bring sun screen, etc. At a beach outing my I suggested to my son he reapply sunscreen - naw Dad, I don't need it. Well, I caught hell from his mother for not making him put it on as he got burned but you know what, it hasn't happened again in six years and counting. There comes a time where we need to cut the apron strings and as they say, what doesn't kill them will make them stronger.

I think I've related this story before on this forum - but it has been a few years. When my second son attended summer camp (I was the Scoutmaster) his mother gave him a disposable camera (digital cameras were an expensive item at this time - about 8 years ago?). His instructions were to take pictures and she would get them developed when he got home. My wife knew that to have me responsible for picture taking was a losing proposition - I don't like taking pictures when I've go so much else going on. Well, fast forward a few weeks and she picks them up from the store and is aghast at what she sees. It seems as a joke, a few of the boys stuck the camera down their pants and snapped a photo (it had a built in flash). The vast majority were barely recognizable - out of focus, blurred, etc. Well my son claimed ignorance (not sure what to believe as a father) but mom was upset - mostly because it meant fewer "real" pictures due to a constraint of 24 shots. I was glad my wife or I wasn't accused of child pornography! Any way, I addressed at a follow up troop meeting with the boys. Trying to keep a straight face, I told them what happened and said there was only one way to find out who was involved - match individuals to the photos! This got their attention (I never did share the photos). Needless to say, this was never a problem again. For the case referenced here, I would use my judgment and talk to the Scout involved and privately and discreetly mention the incident to his parents too. I'm not trying to downplay this but not a rare incident amongst adolescent boys.