AwakeEnergyScouter

I don't have much experience with either BSA councils or national yet, but neither have responded to emails I've sent requesting information, offering help, or making requests other than when a CC started the conversation. Maybe they're busy. Maybe not. Either way it's not clear that they are reachable.

@Tron Positional authority isn't the sum of possible reasons for why one ought to follow a particular directive, it's role-based power that an individual holds within an organization. This would be as opposed to personal power, which people have regardless of role. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbescoachescouncil/2019/03/06/do-you-exude-personal-power-or-do-you-rely-on-positional-power/?sh=215b212a65ec You're not wrong about the insurance coverage issue, but look around - people are de facto violating the spirit of this rule while cooking up formal explanations for why they are in a legalistic way following it to address insurance-type reasons because nobody understands why this rule improves scout safety, let alone enough to give up a huge part of the program. People think they're taking care of the insurance and other policy-type issues with getting legalistic about what you call night 1 and night 2. They may not be, in which case it's even more important to explain why the rule is in place so that people actually follow it. Otherwise, it's a question of time until some pack is in the news for an insurance kerfuffle with national. Giving a clear answer to why this rule makes sense really isn't too much to ask.

You should eat a full bowl, yes, but that is not only enough, but better than a protein-heavy and fatty breakfast, which is what I assume you mean by energy dense based on breakfast suggestions from this thread. For endurance, you want to eat a ton of complex carbs for steady energy supply and have sugars of some kind (gels, dates, sports drink, trail mix) in your pocket during the activity. You don't want to run into the wall. Endurance is all about staying away from that wall with both your pace and your diet. I've done P90X a number of times, following the diet plans also, and I found that the fitter I got, the worse I felt on the initial high-protein diet. Just didn't have any energy. When you're fit and active you need complex carbohydrates in volume on your plate. https://www.outsideonline.com/2242911/oatmeal-still-worlds-best-performance-breakfast/

This must depend on the families in the troop, because that is absolutely not what happens at our house 😱 Shouldn't we model and teach good, healthy food?

I see my family and troop come from a different outdoor culinary tradition, so here are some completely different ideas that don't involve much meat browning or lots of grease building up if you decide they need to build up to it. Most of these are meant for a camp kitchen, but could of course also be made over a fire. Breakfast: oatmeal or müsli, bring plant milk to make refrigeration more forgiving Lunch/dinner: various soups and sandwiches, classics are pea (high protein and filling) and vegetable but lentil and chicken are also popular Curry and rice stews of various kinds i e different meats/legumes/tofu/fish and different curries (make the curry and then boil the rice in the curry) Beef or hot dog stroganoff with noodles (same thing, boil the pasta in the sauce for a one-pot meal) Foil dinners over coals or in boiling water Baked potatoes in foil over coals Fried whole or filéed fish (if you're fishing and get a catch) with mashed potatoes (cut potatoes into cubes to speed up cooking, fry the fish last) Bannock over hot stones, or wound around a thick stick and baked over coals or flames. Mix the dry ingredients at home and just add water at camp and knead the dough into shape Reindeer wraps (reindeer jerky with crème fraîche and horseradish in a wrap) Super fancy for car camping only: sliced reindeer in cream sauce 😋 it can be hard to find reindeer in the store, but you can make a good mushroom seitan roast that works well instead. Bonus for not needing as tight refrigeration if you also use cashew cream. This does require boiling the potatoes separately also so maybe a bit fussy for beginner cooks. Fresh Off the Grid has a lovely collection of outdoor recipes in case you want to browse for suitability for beginner cooks. I just planned a Bear cub scout activity on cooking around quickly sautéeing chicken breast pieces in lemon juice and herbs plus making that reindeer in cream sauce at home in our kitchen before it's trail cooking time. The chicken is very easy, I pulled it out of a congrats-on-your-first-kitchen book, so they're likely to pull it off. Good luck! 🥘🏕️

A different, less legalistic tack is asking what level of hovering supervision is in your absolute best judgement required in the particular activity in that particular place for those particular scouts to limit their mistakes to the kind that are a matter of straightforward "let's not do that again" rather than someone thinking "I have to get out of here". Sometimes maybe yes, sometimes maybe no, like other above have said. Keeping the scouts' minds and bodies in a positive place is the objective. Rules - good ones, anyway - are ultimately meant to be an aid to that, so putting your eyes on the safe enough prize ought to be able to lead you as well.

We're all busy with work and our own children. You, too, right? Does the CM ask or command? It sounds a bit like they're telling, not asking. Not a good working vibe to set in a group of volunteers. Does he ask you to make the coffee, too? 🙄 What is the rest of the committee doing? Are the DLs and any ADLs not running errands and making calls? If the CM asks you and only you despite having others to ask and you've had enough, then you've had enough. If there's not much else of a committee, then perhaps it's time to name the elephant in the room and point out that unless you two can get more parents involved, the pack risks folding. Two busy adults isn't enough in the long run regardless of how you share the work. And part of that might well have to be for your pack parents to see that CC is a limited time commitment. I don't know, you're the one with the insight into the situation, but if you're not willing, you're not willing. Emotional blackmail (either from yourself or others) doesn't improve the situation. Our CC runs errands and helps run meetings, but I'm pretty sure that's what he understood himself to be signing up for so he's good with it. And he has a kid in the pack.

Oh yeah 🤦🏼‍♀️ I was thinking about both family trips and scout trips, but forgot that we can't share a tent at scouting events after a few years. In that case it definitely doesn't make sense to buy a big tent because the hordes of squirrelly cub scouts visiting use case expires pretty soon.

That looks pretty luxurious! I saw a review complaining about water leaking in during rain and the vestibule being unusable in rain - has that been your experience also? Even if so, it's so big on the inside that might be ok.

I was originally wanting to get a backpacking tent, but once I saw the big-tent culture in our pack I thought perhaps it's best to stick with heavy bulky size comfort now and buy a backpacking tent later, if things work out as I hope (that my scout will want to go backpacking with me in the back country when they're older). Yeah, the Basecamp 4 is a good 2-3 kg heavier than one would like even at the heavy end. I just didn't see any backpacking tents with good gear vestibules at REI when I was in so I gave up on the one tent to rule them all strategy, but perhaps that was premature. I found some additional tents on their website that might do quite well, like the Big Agnes Copper Spur. Just not quite sure the vestibule is big enough. Sharing a tent with another cub scout would probably be super popular, but the way I interpret "Separate tenting arrangements must be provided for male and female adults as well as for male and female youth." is that if cub scouts sleep separate from their parents, they must sleep in a tent with only other scouts of the same gender. I guess I would need to figure out how to explain why gender matters in this way only in scouting without making their fellow scouts seem dodgy. When I was a kid, we did alpine backpacking with a four-person (for 3) tunnel tent with two gear vestibules that fit our three frame packs plus hiking boots in the vestibules, and that worked well in keeping wet gear out of the tent interior for warmth. As long as I can get three packs and shoes in the vestibule I'm happy. Not a fan of having to dash out into the cold rain in my hitherto dry PJs to get my day clothes though, so I don't want to leave my pack unreachable from the inside of the tent. If it rains for a week you have nowhere to hang anything to dry and you only have so much body heat to dry with.

We're a family of three, and mostly it's just me and my scout on trips so it's not sleeping space that we need. What we really need is a good gear vestibule. What I fell in love with is the GIANT vestibule on this thing! Our pack has a for me new culture of giant tents. I had previously thought of anything larger than a 4-person tent too impractical to use, but now I see all these big tents with multiple rooms and wonder if it's not as bad as I thought. @Eagle94-A1 is making me wonder if my first thought is right after all. And I am also a little wary of the setup because the only potential help I expect to have is my scout, who definitely will want to run and play with their friends when we arrive. But because of all these giant tents, the scouts run around not just in nature, but in each other's tents even in good weather. It's like visiting each other's tents to see what it's like in there is a making friends activity. We have scouts running in and out of our tent even though we have a regular dome tent. So, I was thinking that we can welcome visitors in the giant vestibule without having to have miscellaneous kids in our tent proper. BUT... I'm an REI member, but even with the 50% discount that ends today it's pricey and I'm unsure if it's worth it. This conversation isn't making me any more sure. The Basecamp 4 also has a good gear vestibule but is more in line with what I'm used to. You can't host a whole party in the larger vestibule but we could make a smaller hangout spot in it maybe. It would definitely fill the function of shielding shoes and backpacks from rain and any dew, and it's a safer weather bet I think. Even if you guys don't have the Wonderland X, it was helpful to hear that the setup prohibited you from using other larger tents in practice. Thank you! 🙏

The price point is what made me try to find an owner to talk to. If I talk my husband into buying a $1000+ tent that collapses or flies away he will never let me live it down 😬

We currently have a cheap 4-person tent without a gear vestibule because we weren't sure if our cub scout would like camping. Now that we know that they do and have also been camping in the rain in this tent that all gear has to go inside, I'm looking around for a good car camping tent with a big gear vestibule for cub scouts (and our family during private outings) to hang out in even in the rain if necessary. I have fallen in love with the REI Wonderland X, at least on paper. It's a whole cabin! Does anyone here have it? I'd be curious to hear how hard it is to find space for, and whether it is as good in wind as some reviews say. It's so tall I find this a little hard to believe. I don't want the space at the cost of poor wind performance.

Welcome, @Jadalexm! Despite the learning curve, it's lovely to pay the organizing forward. Our leaders organized for us, now we organize for our children's generation, passing the scouting torch down from generation to generation. 🙏 I'm only a second generation scout myself, my child is third. What has been your biggest challenge so far?

Yeah, I agree. It could be that this stays the only widely violated rule, but probably not given long enough time. The thing about leading volunteers is that you have little positional authority no matter what the org chart says. You have to lead with vision, purpose, and motivate your decisions well or nothing will happen the way you wanted.

Some places are like that. I talked to one unit and they said this is how they will be handling it. they will now offer two overnighters: one Friday/Saturday overnighter with one leader in charge, and a Saturday/Sunday overnighter with a different leader in charge. Families will have their choice of one or two overnighters. I don't think this rule is going to be actually followed by anyone currently doing two nights in a row without a detailed, well thought out, well-explained rationale. We may all cook up different "legal" schemes but we're effectively not going to stop a key part of the cub scouting program just because someone said so.

This is most of ours. There are very few camping opportunities located closer than that, so we'd be doing to the same two places over and over otherwise. I just proposed one with a 3h one way drive time. Let's just say we're complying with the letter but not the spirit of the rule because of the travel time ROI. All we do on night 1 is set up tents and go to sleep because we just drove several hours after work and school. But this gives us the experience of a whole day already settled into camp. It isn't nights that need counting, it's days actually out in nature.

@cmd @InquisitiveScouter @DuctTape Thanks to all of your ideas, I think we can incorporate practicing map and compass skills throughout the year! The local orienteering club leader is willing to set something up for just us - a nuts and bolts focus on orienting the map kind of exercise. The club also has meets twice a year, to which interested scouts can go to with their parents to use that Florida Orienteering plan ideas during. We will do several hikes of course, during which we can use those topo maps to mark what we see on. And during a campout, we can practice taking a bearing and using landmarks and topo maps. Several chances to practice a little at a time, and most of the time it's of little consequence whether they get it right or not. Just building the experience for the day it clicks. Thank you so much for your ideas 🙇🏼‍♀️🙏

Hi @Brannigan! I'm a Wolf (soon to be Bear) ADL in Texas. My home office may or may not be covered in planning materials for the Bear scouting year. Those kids are going to swim and camp and paddle and orienteer and hike and they're going to like it! At least that's my joyful aspiration 🙇🏼‍♀️🙏🏞️

I didn't really understand this either when I first heard of it. I googled it and found a number of blogs, papers, articles, and videos of Indians from various nations sharing their opinions on this. You can be a digital fly on the wall and listen to what they're saying. I didn't agree with everything I read and heard but that's to be expected. But I understand where they're coming from much better now.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to turn your sadness into some local young dancers' joy, if you have that live connection to a nation and scouts don't care to put the work in. If those materials are anything like the materials for folk dresses, they are very expensive and cost is always a barrier. Those kinds of relationships institutionalize poorly, though. I can't imagine that all OA lodges have an 'invite' to learn more from someone in a local nation willing and able to take the time. You can't mandate what people outside your organization do. And you also can't mandate intentions or interest even for members of the organization. Outside the family, the personal chemistry has to be right for someone who does know old traditions to teach someone who doesn't. The scouts at @InquisitiveScouter's camp did so because he was a fellow scout and so he dropped into an existing bubble of friendly Swedishness without resistance. My husband thinks Swedes are very social, friendly, and talkative because every time he goes there he drops right into an existing warm social atmosphere. (This is, of course, not what foreigners typically say about Sweden.) You need someone to like you enough to include and teach you, and that's on a person-to-person basis, plus people have jobs and families. An organization can't possibly count on that kind of real learning being available.

Oh, this is fantastic! Thank you so much! The question of skill progression is not my forte - I have no background in early childhood education - so having some guidance of what you can expect is so helpful! I will see what we can do with this. I see you can get orienteering kits online and we also have a club in town whose white course we might be able to borrow. Thank you 🙏

My pleasure, @InquisitiveScouter! 3:30 isn't bad! I guess it helps that you must all have been sober 😉 It's too bad that program was cancelled, because culture has to be lived. It's one thing to briefly meet people on holiday or at an international camporee or jamboree, and completely different to live with people from another country in their country. Even as an expat or an immigrant you bring with you a cultural bubble if you and your partner are from the same other place. You also understand your own culture better by comparison. My American husband called me a pagan for ten years before I realized what he was talking about. I thought he was kidding because I don't believe in or worship the old gods. He meant the connection to the wheel of the year. Fish in water! Very cool that you got to get in on the making of the pole, usually it's some historical society doing that bit. Since it's hard to celebrate Midsummer on an individual level (I googled how to make a Midsummer pole and the instructions started "get a 20 m long pole..." 🙄) or even small-scale level (we tried with another half-Swedish family, not enough hands to go around the very provisionary pole to dance well), we just flew back last year so that our child will have danced around the Midsummer pole as a child and bound the flower crown and danced in the ring and sung the traditional songs and all that. They're American since we live here, but if they ever want to move to Europe having had some of these experiences in childhood will help them fit in. We were even able to find a children's workshop on maying (decorating with leaves and flowers) a small pole and then raising it into the foot in the traditional way with the 'scissors', picture attached. We faithfully bake the solstice ritual saffron bread every Yule as well and leave the porridge offering for our house gnome. I did also have a spiritual motive, as that second article mentioned. My lineage pulls heavily on Bön, and I find this very comforting actually. Familiar even though I heard of it as an adult. It's given me some words to express what it is that we do at Midsummer and Yule/Christmas exactly, and why we find it so important that we still do it a thousand years after the Christians started trying to stamp it out. They got rid of a lot of other things, but Yule and Midsummer endure because they are our connection to our land and the nature dralas that live on it. Therefore, they are what makes us Swedish, and that's also why they are a cultural litmus test. That is also why we still teach our children about "the gnomes and trolls" as if they're real even though nobody thinks there's little physical people among the rocks and the trees or that proper mining safety requires offerings to the Lady of the Mountain. We still feel their presence in the samboghakaya, the mind realm of concepts. Drala is a Tibetan word that means 'above' or 'beyond' the enemy, the enemy being anything that weakens our windhorse, our sense of flow. Drala is a way of describing the experience of the non-duality of the physical world, a way of being directly being inspired and uplifted by the wisdom and beauty that we experience through our sense perceptions. Sometimes a stone, a tree, or some other "thing" has an intangible presence that cannot be explained. It might not always be there, or only be there for a short period of time, but we often anthropomorphize it to make it easier to talk about. Those are the dralas, the gnomes and the trolls. Relating to the dralas is relating to yourself, the land, and if they're named dralas also your culture. Especially if you're wearing a folk dress, dancing the traditional dances and singing the traditional songs with a crown made literally out of the reflowering of the Earth on your head. I saw somewhere that someone called BP "chief mystic" of the scout movement, and I totally get that. Both we Swedes and we scouts were forest bathing before anyone ever called it that. You are not separate from the forest; you are completely dependent on it, and it is completely dependent on you (to not ransack or pollute it). Being out there is profoundly soothing and calming. Non-duality is a lot easier to experience in nature. That's why the mountains call... Anyway... kind of a big sidebar to the regalia. If anyone would like to continue with that please feel free.

I'm not that familiar with rules for regalia, so I have what may be a basic question: are there rules (formal or informal) around needing to have a family connection to the place/people the regalia is for? I ask because it reminds me a bit of how folk dress works in the Nordic countries. Each locale has its own and wearing it is a statement of being from the place the folk dress is from. They may not be commercially down, they must be hand-sown and ideally inherited. If you roll up to a Midsummer celebration in a folk dress for a place you have no connection to, you're going to be seen as a liar. It's just not done. Last Midsummer, we went for a very traditional celebration in the area of Sweden that my family is from. It's pretty culturally conservative, to the point where one particular valley was still writing with runes in the 1800s. Since I have my grandmother's folk dress from the town we're from, I had a number of people in the local folk dress come and ask where it's from. Make no mistake, this was a "are you one of us" question, because it's from the same region as opposed to all the city slicker tourists coming there just for Midsummer. (I did not mention that we flew in from abroad!) Had I said "I bought this on the Internet because I thought it looked cool", that would have been highly frowned upon. They way you make a high-quality folk dress takes a lot of passed-down knowledge... In my grandmother's case, a lot of sewing, embroidery, and weaving classes. Can't imagine it's easy to make regalia either. That's what makes me wonder how you get high-quality regalia without a living connection to the tradition they come from.

I may or may not have been able to convince my husband to let our child join scouts without observation. He was very opposed in large part because he had a bad experience (ordinary bad experience, not abuse) in cub scouts himself. He's still opposed, but what made it possible to join without causing a family rift was that I could be there for literally everything. I am trying to get him to come to more scout things to convince him further that our pack takes youth safety seriously and does follow the scout law.