AwakeEnergyScouter

Tied some knots, hiked some trails, and muddied some boots this weekend. Cubmaster helped an old lady up a steep section of the trail. (She was on her way to the summit to see the eclipse, not necessarily there for the climb itself.) We had a great campout with both fun and advancement and awards. What else? Raise tents, cook food, have good-spirited campfire. Especially have campfires. 🏕️

#landback! Congratulations to the Esselen tribe.

I couldn't find a quote from him saying this, but given what I did find I don't think I can be bothered to look more - it's plausible enough. I did also find an NPR segment with a survivor (already forgot his name) who also wanted the BSA disbanded, but in this case to make room for a new NSO. So that just doubled the number of people I can verify think this, but that's still quite far from a movement or a general societal sentiment.

I think you guys are way too pessimistic about whether BSA can turn it's membership trends, hostile lawyer notwithstanding. (Haven't found the link, but assuming worst case.) It's easy for me to say since many of these societal changes that the article (and many other posts here talk about) have already gone to completion in Sweden, and scouting is doing just fine and we have more social capital in society than the US. (See https://solability.com/the-global-sustainable-competitiveness-index/the-index/social-capital) Other phenomena the article and posts here talk about were never present in Swedish scouting and Swedish scouting is still just fine. It's just not so that changes in US and only US culture is dooming all scouting. It's not all hopeless. I'm hoping that some of you who are feeling down about the BSA's future could raise some good mental energy by really noticing this. Scouting has endured for so long in so many places exactly because it's not so susceptible to fads and trends and even genuine societal change. Every society changes - and yet scouting persists in 200 (WOSM)/ 152 (WAGGGS) countries and territories. (So 199/151 that aren't the US.) Scouts advise and address the UN. We deliver humanitarian aid in Ukraine and floods in Libya. Both US scouting organizations do have membership problems, but US scouting isn't fatefully doomed.

@Mrjeff this is all I need to see, thank you.

Ok, that addresses the first part. What about the second? If there's no need the debate "the issue", which is (at least) four issues as per your statement above, then why bring up "the" issue?

Good point. That could leave only why bring it up if there's no point talking about it part. Thank you for noticing!

Then why did you chime in with this opinion on this thread, two months after the last person said something? If there's no need the debate "the issue", which is (at least) four issues as per your statement above, then why bring up "the" issue? I see two possible answers.

I'll look for that - thanks, @Eagle94-A1!

What makes you say that? I have never heard anyone say or do anything to suggest that this would be true.

I understand the analogy, but am not sure what actual situation the analogy is for. It seems a little bit randomly given. Hence why I am asking what actual situation you are offering the analogy for. Last time you offered this analogy, it was you not wanting to follow the rules of WOSM, IIRC.

@Mrjeff, who is showing up with a golf club to play hockey, exactly? My best guess is the kids with helicopter parents in search of a résumé bullet who want their kid to be able to sleep in a tent indoors because they don't like sleeping outside for the camping merit badge, but I don't see how that connects to being a good, kind citizen.

From the article: "The 10 fatalities were all female students who were wearing long skirts that made them especially vulnerable to being dragged away by the strong currents, according to Yogyakarta National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) head L. Wahyu Efendi. Wearing long skirts for outdoor scout activities has drawn offline and online flak. Nita Azhar, a fashion designer who said that she helped design Indonesia’s national scout uniform in 2012, said that she was surprised to hear that the Turi 1 junior high students had been wearing long skirts. “It is regrettable because […] I also made a special uniform for field activities such as river trekking that consists of long trousers, including for middle school students and girl scouts,” Nita said in a statement seen by The Jakarta Post." I interpret this to mean that the head of the search and rescue agency attributed the deaths to the long skirts, and that this risk has been previously clearly identified and mitigated with a Islamic field activity uniform that the dead scouts weren't using when they were swept away. Being swept away will happen in anything, yes. But whether you survive being swept away could certainly depend on whether you have a skirt on in my personal swimming experience, fitting what the head of search and rescue said. We had to practice lifesaving with clothes on, and even jeans feel crazy heavy on your legs when wet, and they always follow the movement of your legs in a way that a skirt does not.

I bet they could order an abaya, niqab, chador, or even burqa in that color. But safety is a thing also - since floor-length dresses obviously have caused literally death before at scouting events, there's a limit to how accommodating we can be. Checking on what guidelines predominantly Muslim countries use is a great idea - including where they draw that safety line. If pants are absolutely out, then there's a limit to what kinds of events they could participate in safely.

This is the point that is being made. Well, with the extension that when lack of perfection occurs, we accept that, and move on with delivering the program. What you control is the bar. Set the bar, but at the same time don't let lack of uniform perfection keep scouts out of the program.

Absolutely, that's all true. The question isn't whether you should set high expectations, the question is what you do with those individuals who consistently do not meet those expectations. Do you let it slide or do you kick them out? Are you saying kick them out, then?

Arguably, they've already discovered the reasons for most of that stuff, just not at a scout meeting. Why is it important to be kind and friendly? They know. I would suggest applied philosophy discussion plus some puzzle-type memorization aid, if possible lead by tigers who already have their bobcat. Worked pretty well for us.

Heard at the end of last den meeting at 8 PM, twice from different parents: "Come on, Name-of-scout, we need to go, we haven't eaten" Scouts were in T-shirts. Excellent. But scouts also need food in bellies.

Whoa!! It stays in her hair??

My hope for my cubs is that they cross over ready to pitch a tent, pack their gear, read a map, and cook for their patrol, and find their pride in that they can do it themselves. Perhaps sloppily and inefficiently. But knowing from doing what it means to be prepared. This is my hands-on contribution to the future of the BSA.

You're right, that would be one heck of a slide! 😂 Although the weight of that thing probably would make the slide fall off all the time, too, worse than the existing slides 🤦🏼‍♀️ My scout lost an official cub scout slide on a night hike, and is now sporting a classic homemade valknot slide.

Paradoxically, sometimes this great prestige that being an Eagle scout confers in US society seems to make scouting harder sometimes. Some kids seem to get pushed into scouting that aren't a great fit for what the program is about. My US cub scouts ask if I made Eagle in Sweden. Not only didn't we have such a capstone award, being a scout isn't anything I would ever consider putting on my Swedish résumé. Any prestige you get from being an old scout is among other outdoorsy people, and only if you can "back it up" with skills. And worn gear.

That was a wise decision.

Whoa! I thought you made that up as a facetious example! 😱

I can do better than that, here's my scout's never-used official scout bow. Well, ok, there was that first meeting during which they discovered that these giant bows always slide out of your hair very quickly and just turn into a hassle. I knew it was a waste of money when I agreed to buy it, but I really wanted them to be excited about scouting, so I bought a bunch of useless stuff like this bow and scout socks just to build the energy. The socks are always declined also.