captainron14

Let me guess, is "TRUTH2" Mr. or Mrs. Rasmussen? (or family member) If not either, what dog in this fight do you have?

Trevorum, Thank you very much for your post. Sorry for "Hi-jacking" the thread a bit. You are so right. I myself have grown tired of listening to Merlyn and his rants. There comes a time when we have to agree to dissagree. Calling people names and such degrades this forum and keeps good people away from entering into constructive discussions. While we all may not agree about all of BSA policies, most care about what the movement is about and the good it can accomplish. However, some give the perception that it is "all or nothing" and if you do not agree, you are a *#@*& or worse.( a Scout is ..Friendly, Courtious, & Kind...?, Is he even a Scout/Scouter?) Well now I don't have to listen to his rants anymore. I had forgoten the "ignore" option. It sure beats not logging in to the list because of their rants and abuse of others. Maybe, if enough people realize they can do this too, Merlyn can rant all by himself.;o) BTW, I do enjoy listening to different views, I believe we all have something to contribute to this great movement called Scouting, just that we should be more respectful of others views and when one "goes over the line", a simple "sorry" and move on. Just my 2 cents and change. Thanks again! YiS & V CR14

As a father of both sons and daughters, I have tried to have a quality program for all of my kids. Being a scouter and an eagle scout, that was not a problem with my boys. However, for my girls, it was. Since my wife is very shy and has issues with large groups, trying to help out with our girls is left to me. The GSUSA groups in every area we have lived have basiclly told me "if we need some extra drivers to deliver cookies, we will call you". They treated me (and other Fathers) like some kind of "freak" for wanting to be involved. The focus at all of the groups seemed to be all too much on selling cookies. After a couple of tries with several different Girl Scout groups, we bagged it and tried to give our girls something similar to what the boys had. I along with another Dad, took our girls on outings similar to what the boys in the troop did. We eventually registered them in a Venturing crew.

Great Post Beavah! Thank you for bringing the "details" out into the open. It's nice to see a non-sensational version of what happened. Something a "regular" scouter can understand and relate too. All to often, things like this are used to trash organizations like BSA. Are there problems? yes. Should we burn the ship to the waterline to get rid of some rats? No. That seems the agenda of many who disagree with BSA policies. Do it my way, or else. I feel we shoud just trap em and get "rid" of them.

All, I have started collecting old BSA Pins and I have a few Hat Plumes too. If anyone is interested in trading and/or selling of these items please contact me. I do not specialize in anything, just thing that catch my eye. I am interested in the old adult position collar pins and lapel pins from before 1968. If you are interested please drop me a line. YiS Ron

I have a pair of Musician Collar pins that were used in Boy Scouting from the late teens to the late 40s. It is a gold pin in the shape of a lyre(small harp) with a scout emblem on the front and it is a screw-back pin. I have checked with Mitch Reis and used his and other reference books but have come up with very little information on them. Can anyone shed some light on them? Were they worn as a pair? How were they worn? When? By who (Troop or "other group")? I would love to see a photo of an old uniform with the pin(s) on it! Any Help out there? YiS

Sorry, not a LSA or BSA patch. This is a US Army unit patch belonging to the 98th Infantry Division (now Institutional Training). It is a Army Reserve Unit out of Rochester NY. It was active during WW2. The border of the current patch is gold. For more info see: http://www.armyreserve.army.mil/USARC/DIV-IT/0098DIV-IT/0098_DIV-IT_History.htm

I am looking for the requirements for the old "Pathfinding" MB. Any help out there? Thank you.

Our troop wants to honor our Scoutmaster on his 20th aniversary of being our SM. Since he wears the official "Smokey Bear" hat, we are looking for the old SM hat pin. For those who are not familier with what I am talking about. The leadership positions used to have enamled pins from PL, ASPL, SPL, ASM and SM. The SM hat pin is a green enamled First class pin. Any help out there? I have tried Ebay but get out bid when I can find one. Thanks.

Many of the other Scouting organizations in the world have/are used/using colored hat pins or plumes for Leadership (Boy & Adult). BSA used colored enameled pins instead of plumes like the UK did. They wore them on the wool felt hat, Stenson I think. Where can I find reference photos/material on the BSA pins. Other than Ebay is there a source that I might trade /puchase them? I have seen pins for sale and I have a hard time telling the differences between the collar insignia and the hat pins. I am also interested in the plumes from the UK and Canada. I just found out that the UK is selling a Hat Plume for the "Centenary", it will cost about $40. Kind of pricy, but I guess the 100th aniversary only comes around once. see: http://www.scouting.outdoors.ltd.uk/acatalog/Page.html Any help out there? I am not a big collector, just interested in a couple of them. Thank you!

I have seen the official world "Centenary" badge. It is offered for sale on the UK Scouting web page ( http://www.scouting.outdoors.ltd.uk/acatalog/Page.html). It comes in English and many other languages. The price is L2 (about $3 w/shipping). I called National to ask when it would be availabe through the BSA system. The answer was probably not. They are focusing on the BSA 100 aniversary not the world's. They first said that we could not wear them on our uniforms and then changed their minds to say we could wear them in the "Temp" position. What gives? What is National's problem with the rest of the world? Are there any units out there that have purchased the patch? Are you wearing them? Where? (location) How is the quality of the patch? Thank you.

It's sad that national is almost ignoring the real 100th anniversary of scouting. They seem to be concerned that it might draw attention away from the US anniversary in 2010. When I called about the same topic, they first denied that the patch in question even existed, then they said we could not wear it on out uniform, when pressed for a reason, they called me back and said to wear it in the temp position (right pocket). The boys(and girls) in the "Ivory Tower" in Irving TX should be ashamed of themselves. They seem to have forgotten a gentleman with the initials "B.P.".

I asked National about this topic. I was asking about a similar topic. Bill Evans of the Venturing Division had this to say: QUOTE:" We have sort of a joke in Venturing where we say about anything goes except wearing the green loops on the Boy Scout uniform. So to answer your question, no you cant wear the green loops on the Boy Scout uniform. If we allowed that, it would defeat the purpose of having an older teen uniform." If anyone knows anything about Venturing, you know who Bill Evans is and how he has helped develop the program. The above statement along with the Insignia Guide and the Venturing Leaders handbook (both say the same thing, "NO GREEN LOOPS WITH TAN UNIFORM") Should be enough for any reasonable Scouter. Enough said.

Welcome back! I just dropped back on the list myself. I usually keep up on scouts-L. If you are looking for some volunteer work. Check out when the work will start on the next Washington State Jamboree (WashJam). I think the next one will be in 2008. Pacific Harbors was involved a lot. Things should be getting started (if they haven't already). Maybe I'll see you there! Good Luck

Refering to the post by Owl 62, I don't think the "Sea Base Conch Shell" is still in use. Our troop just went there and received a "shark" patch instead. Anyone have any info on this?

The correct answer as many have already mentioned in this thread is simple: NO GREEN LOOPS ON A TAN UNIFORM. This is stated in both the Ingignia Guide and the Venturing Leaders Guide. As for the Adult leader wearing multiple colored loops, he is just plain wrong. A very sad example to the youth. Does this poor example of a leader wear three different patches (for each position)wrapped around his sleeve (or all in a row if it's a long sleeve)? Does he also wear unauthorized knots too?

On the subject of ties. 1. Is it ever OK to wear one in a short sleeve shirt? 2. If I were to wear the Venturing Kelly green shirt, is there a tie that might be worn with it? Someone said that there used to be a brown "explorer" tie. Would that work and if so where could you find one? I usually do not wear a tie while wearing a scout uniform, but I am curious. Thank you.

>>>We are going to summer camp that actually is promoting their new paint ball target shooting course.

dan and Woody01 are right. You can wear the youth religious knot earned as a Cub on your Boy Scout uniform. When he earns his Boy Scout Religious Award, he wears both, a cub device and a Boy Scout device on the knot. Knot by it self designates one award, add devices for multiple awards (different levels/types). Much like the Scouters Training award. About the AOL Knot, that is only worn by adults. Youth wear the badge below their rank.

I agree with both of you. What is the purpose of the question/post? Venturing is "modernized". It can do everything you are asking for and more. Go get trained and you will understand the program.

dana, The great thing about Venturing is that it is so flexible. There are no two crews the same. You will find that there are Crews with a strong tie with traditional Boy Scouting, also you will find Crews that have little or no contact/knowledge of Boy Scouts. There are Crews that are made up of members of Girl Scout Troops, Crews that are JROTC, Church Youth Ministry groups, and many other types. Their focus is what the crew decides, as is the uniform (if any). All boy, all girl or Coed. As for earning the Eagle, as has been stated, as long as the boy has earned his first class prior to joining, no problem. National policy, by yourself, you can not make changes to it. If your issue is that since a girl can not earn the Eagle rank in Venturing, a boy should not either, well same answer, National policy. You deliver all of the program, regardless if you like it or not. A great example is the OA and Venturing. The OA is a Boy Scout organization that Venturers who were elected as Boy Scouts can continue to participate (including the wear of the lodge flap on their Venturing uniform). Venturing Crews can not hold elections, and since one of the requirements is to be First Class. There are no elected youth female Venturers in the OA. Similar to the Boy Scout ran issue you have. Same answer, National Policy. Will this change? OA & Venturing? Maybe, Eagle & Venturing? probably not. Regardless, these issues should not detract from the fact that Venturing is a great program and should not affect the crew. As for the Silver being the equivalent to Eagle & Quartermaster, it is. It's just much newer then the Eagle & Quartermaster. Give it some time.

All of the esteemed Venturing Leaders have given great advice. Venturing is a great program. But it is what the Crew wants it to be. There are no two Crews alike. You will find Crews that have a Boy Scout Background with some boys still working on their Eagle. Other Crews may have no Boy Scout experience at all. Boys only, Girls only or Co Ed. all are "right". I have seen Crews that wear the Dark Green & Gray pants uniform and I have seen one with a Aloha print shirt for a uniform (the uniform is up to the Crew). The program is very flexible and adaptable to be a "fit" with any type of Crew. Get trained, after a while go to Powderhorn. Get the Crew trained, VLSC is a must. Find other Crews in the Council and talk to their leaders. Get their Crew Officers to visit with yours to help jump start the Crew Leadership. The focus of the Crew does not have to be single minded, it is what the Crew wants it to be. Good Luck and Venture On!

Steelers have had their share of the glory. It's time the Seahawks have their turn. 30-21, Seattle wins.

I agree about Ft. Carson, too much dust/dirt. What about the US Air Force Academy?

OK guys, you're right. I did go over the top with the terrorist attack. I apologize. I do not wish any physical harm to anyone. The thought I was trying to convey with the statement is that, if something of that nature were to happen, maybe their understanding of what the military is and does would change. Every "right" they have their was won and kept safe by the military. Yet there are so many (especially in places like SF) that have no clue, and wonder why we even have a military. If "they" had their way (no military), the possibility of another attack would definitely happen. Would they then wake up? The main point on the USS Iowa that I was trying to make is the such a place like SF, with it's attitudes towards the military is no place for the USS Iowa. They should find new homes for the "other" warships that are docked there. SF does not deserve that "honor". Strange that places like NYC can "stand" to have warships like the USS Iowa. Freedom is not Free