Abel Magwitch

Not quite the same in my neck of the woods peridiochas. different experiences I have had.

It sounds like this question is in regards to the local option. Pros have told me that the sponsoring institution owns the unit and the SI can decide on who can be the leaders among other things. Believe it or not, there are units out there that will only take on members who belong to a particular religious denomination. There are also units who will only take on members from the particular school the unit is chartered to and will only allow teachers from the schools to be leaders. There are even ethnic units which have the requirement that a member (including leaders) must speak their language. And I am sure that there are some LDS units who will only accept LDS members period. The local option has been around a long time now.

Here’s another question - how will councils deal with the "practical problems" if the local option gets the thumbs up? I believe one problem that councils may run into is that they may have to adjust their summer camp program to accommodate all the diversity. There should be an all-inclusive week of camp where everybody is welcome regardless of sexual orientation. Another week could be set aside for those against having to camp with troops that may have a gay leader or gay Scout. Another week could be exclusively for Roman Catholic troops only. The same can be done with those in-school units where the DE’s are the unit leaders. And let’s not forget the LDS units. They can continue having their own exclusive week of summer camp so they don't have to deal with those non-LDS scouters. Yes, the councils will have to accommodate its members various likes and dislikes of each other. If they do it for the LDS, they should do it for every other group. Boy what a hole the Irving pros have dug themselves.

Kudos! Very nice Terry, I applaud you. Abel

I can see where the BSA smells money. By dropping its anti-gay policy, the BSA would be able to once again start phony units in schools. In-school scouting would really take off again - instant membership; registration being done in September (costs a lot less to register a youth at the end of the year); and the unit doesn't even have to meet as long as the youth get registered. United Way would be again happy and donate dollars based on membership, both traditional and special programs. Money, money, money! I surmise that the suits down in Irving have already run the numbers and realize that school scouting would trump LDS numbers if LDS decides to pull out because of the decision to allow gays. My district is now down to 4 traditional troops yet if a stranger looked at the district roster of units, it would appear that the district is doing just fine. Yet I was just informed that our district chairman had quit back in the late summer. So I guess my little district (big if you include the school units) has been operating with only a key 1, a professional and nobody was told. Yes, this policy (coming out possibly next week according to NBC) means $$ for the BSA. The BSA seems to be willing to do anything as long as there is $$ to pay the professional salaries, imho of course.

It has been announced in my council that there will be a reorganization of districts happening in January. I decided to google boy scouts district reorganization and found that the same thing is happenening in councils all over the country. My council will be going from 8 districts (we used to have 9) to 3. And we have been told that there will be no downsizing of the professional staff. In fact, we have been told that additional professionals will be hired so each new district has multiple DE's. The council went on to say that they would be choosing (handpicking) the new district chairs and committees. No need for district nominations or votes. The hand-picked executive board of course is giving their rubber stamp to corporate BSA as they are hardly involved with the program at all. Corporate BSA has slowly and effectively giving itself more power and to hell with BSA policies and procedures. I also foresee the mergers of councils coming very soon to my neck of the woods. It's next in a logical procession of national decisions. In essence, there will be two thirds less of those pesky volunteers getting in the way of corporate BSAs doing their own thing. Thoughts? (This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

Tokala, your councils 990 for the past three years stated that the council served 30,928 youth. Your current totals add up to 4,459 traditional youth. Do you realize that your council has lost more than 26,000 youth during the past year alone? That is an enormous, incredible loss (words allude me) in youth membership. I hope your council's executive board has downsized its professional staff to match the loss of youth. FOS must be pretty expensive considering the amount of professionals that were needed to serve all that youth. I am curious on what the youth totals (including LFL) were on your councils 2011 annual report. I see that your council does not make its annual report accessible on line like many other councils.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

Tokala, your numbers add up to only 4,459 youth (traditional?) It appears that your council lost more than 22,000 youth since the 2011 annual report considering the council stated on the report that it achieved its Gold Journey to Excellence award by serving over 27,000 youth. I guess I am a bit floored over the tremendous loss of youth.

Tokala, your council must have one heck of a LFL program considering the total youth the council served over the past few years. I find it interesting that the number of youth served was the same on several recent 990's.

Tokala, I can tell you that your council's 2011 annual reports doesn't match up with your council's 990 tax return when comparing membership numbers and expenses and revenue. Tell me what you think is a ballpark figure of Boy Scouts in your council; Cub Scouts in your council. Do you have any idea?

The right to bear arms is in our constitution. I suggest as a start, this country should consider strongly regulate the ammunition and ammunition supplies for reloading etc. Of course nothing is ever foolproof and there is no way to get guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals but this would be a start. Perhaps it is time for the National Guard to take on the duties for regulating ammunition as the NG is our country's organized national militia which is well regulated.

Eagle, don't know if you read my email I sent you but my council is realigning districts again. What a mess.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

...Unfortunately, what is in play with BadenP has little to do with most issues in reality... On the contrary, BadenP speaks reality. He is proclaiming that the emporer has no clothes and there are many who refuse to see. Many of his comments reflect my council as well as others. I find it fascinating that some of the troubles I see in my council are the same in other councils around the country. I have often stated that for those in Scouting who are lucky to be living in parts of the country where Scouting thrives; where membership is still strong; where the traditional units are still the norm; where the council is well funded and managed by good pros; where the council camp is in repair, fantastic. I envy you. But BadenP speaks from his experience both volunteer and professional. If you are unfortunate to belong to a council in one of the country's more depressed and poor areas, I can guarantee that the volunteers are struggling to get any service from the council. The council professionals are only concerned with meeting membership goals and they will do what ever it takes to get those membership numbers up. In School scouting is abused. Units are formed yearly in schools and whole classrooms are registered as members in the fall when the registration fee is low. Who cares if the unit ever meets the rest of the year? The kids are registered and the membership criticals are made. And all along the camps are run down; there are few district events; and council ends up on breaking their promises to the youth by not fulfilling their part of the bargain by providing the promised program at summer camp the Scouts paid for. Skeptic, go ahead and put BadenP on your ignore list. What you are essentially doing is putting your fingers in your ears and saying lalalalala. But it wont change the truth BadenP is writing about. It is in fact reality in his council. There are indeed crappy councils out there. There are bad pros out there. And national is making decisions which do not reflect the spirit of Scouting. The folks that notice it the most are those who have been involved in Scouting for more than 35 years and are still around. I am one of those. If you dont want to believe that collusion is going on in the professional ranks of Scouting, you are only fooling yourself. And a suggestion for any other volunteers stuck in a poor council. You want to learn some things? Get in touch with some former professionals who left the council after only working for a year or less; those who you may find left the profession in a poor economy because they could not continue working for a corporation where the sole purpose was to manipulate the volunteers in order to make personal gains and doing so while neglecting the youth they were hired to serve. I say kudos to BadenP and others who are speaking the truth. Though it may seem that nobody is listening, realize that you are being heard.

Since the DE's salaries along with the rest of the bunch - DD's FD's are lumped together on the IRS 990 as "program", just what is "program" and how is it truly defined? Is the program what the volunteers do? They organize the camporees, the Klondike derbies; the volunteers put on training as well as volunteering their churches etc. for free to have the training... If a DE is going to be considered "program" for tax purposes for this non-profit organization (where it is my understanding that there are supposed to be a limited number of people on the payroll to be considered non-profit), then for me I expect a good DE is one who fulfills his/her role in being "program". But unfortunately, program is what the DEs in my council do very little of if at all. In fact, we have an abundance of DEs and have been told that there will be even more. Theoretically, my council should soon be booming with an abundance of outstanding program. Cant wait for the service. Thoughts?

DeanRX, I am curious about the membership issues you mentioned. According to the most recent annual report posted on your council website, the council is bragging about increases in membership as well as record attendance at camp. By the way, your council spent $1,829,637 of its program expenses on professional salaries and your SE is making $257,497 a year. For all your council spends on professional salaries, are the units being served? Are the youth being served? Will the youth be allowed to camp on the front lawn of the new service center? Your situation is very similar if not the same in many other councils, including mine.