BetterWithCheddar

I know I've posted something similar in the past, but I'll reiterate: I've never been fully comfortable with using Native American imagery as a youth in the OA, despite being an active lodge member. The big draw for me was always recognition and the opportunity to fraternize with scouts my age (never AIA). I'm hardly the PC-type, but I've avoided the use of certain logos out of respect for individuals who may not be accurately represented by the OA-sanctioned symbolism. Personally, it doesn't bother me if you're a fan of AIA and are participating in them respectfully and with good intentions; however, I suspect there is a silent majority on the issue who are largely indifferent, but (if pressed) would prefer to move on to something less likely to offend or draw criticism.

That is really disappointing to hear. I'm sorry that was his staff experience.

Very true, but they still get kids outdoors. The average parent (me included) loves flush toilets and structure. They're more inclined to bring their kids to camp when these two needs are met. More Flush Toilets + More Program Structure = More Kids at Camp

It's unfortunate that the trade-off for teenagers staffing council camps has grown over the past 20-30 years. Years ago, a staffer's only tradeoffs may have been a few weeks of socializing with their high school friends and maybe their troop's high adventure trip. Today, we're asking them to give up those things, plus: Academic Progress Roster Spots or Playing Time in High School Athletics And now their Parents' Savings

I bet this varies largely by region. Around the Great Lakes, there tends to be more seasonal opportunities for teenagers because tourism spikes with the comfortable summer weather. Again, this probably varies largely by experience, but the vast majority of CITs were a net positive to the camp staff. I only recall one pair of boys (twins) who were a handful. Their parents probably laughed all the way home when they dropped them off at camp for the summer. The average 14-year-old scout may not be ready to guide a troop through check-in or instruct a merit badge, but they are well-suited to help with these tasks.

I've got a new one for everyone. It's not necessarily Cub-related, but I think it fits the spirit of the thread. Yesterday, my Cub-age son and I attended an event at one of our local council camps. While he was deep in a handicraft project, one of the volunteers mentioned the council now charges junior staffers $100/week for the privilege of working on summer camp staff. I staffed the same camp for a few years and was considered a "counselor in training" (CIT) when I was 14 and 15. I did not receive any pay for those 2 summers, but was scheduled for ~75% of the paid staff hours and could pursue advancement opportunities in my free time. I still worked >50 hours per week at $0 / hour. It was a bargain for the council, but I enjoyed it. Fast forward many years and the prospect of paying for my son to work at the same camp does not sit well with me. By staffing council camps as CITs, we're already asking these kids to forgo pay, "optional" off-season sports practice, and earning extra HS/college credits. Now we're charging them? What are we doing here?

I agree, there is potential for conflict there, but you also must consider the fact that the pool of buyers for properties that cost >$4.5 million is pretty shallow. Having a board member with a real estate development business (or even developer friends) likely expedited the sale and provided immediate liquidity to the council. It's then incumbent upon the remaining board members to ensure the council received fair value for the property. The role of a Board is clear to me, but who selects the Board in most councils? In a public corporation, shareholders at least have some recourse to sue or recall Board members. How can volunteers hold their council board accountable?

So it's like Scouting for adults? 😛 Jokes aside, there appeared to be some good opportunities on the website for college-age volunteers to hone their technical skills.

Hypothetically, if you take a dozen well-respected individuals from a community, you can create a decision-making body that's not only made up of intelligent, well-connected people, but also one that's invested in that community. They often hire an executive to make the day-to-day decisions, but can also help provide a layer of oversight to an organization and a vision for long-term planning.

The Scoutmaster jokes were part of my youth experience, as well. As Scouts in the 1990s, we were hyper aware of youth protection pitfalls and took much of the organization's guidance seriously ... and, of course, mocked some of it since we were adolescents.

I honestly don't know, but that's not an environment I would have wanted to be a part of a as a youth, nor one I would tolerate as an adult.

I'm very sorry your situation became untenable. Good luck. Thanks for always pushing for better program, despite your frustration.

I thought this was like the Super Bowl where they plan out 3 or 4 in advance, no?

I appreciate this angle, but let me ask - can't a leader or group of leaders express this same commitment with khakis, a branded polo / fleece, and a name tag? Aside from baseball, you never see a coach dress up like their players and yet no one seems to question their commitment to an organization. Appearance is important, but there are often multiple methods to accomplish the same objective. One of my direct reports at work is an Eagle Scout (like myself). We work in a profession that tends to skew conservative and he occasionally presents himself in a less traditional manner. That said, he's not only the nicest guy I've ever worked with, but also the most diligent. He's way ahead of where he needs to be in his development plan and it's reflecting well on me (his manager) and our company. It would have been short-sighted of me to pass on his resume based on how he dressed for his interview.

Apologies for digging up this old thread ~ I just find the economics of the situation very interesting. Has anyone experienced similar issues this year? Working as a camp counselor used to be a great summer job, but I think there is less interest now that many school district calendars have crept into the summer. How many districts now offer summer classes or 'voluntary' (wink, wink) workouts for athletics participants? Even today's college students are pressured to have a series of good summer internships and not just one internship between their junior and senior years. Further, many council camps used to operate through mid-August. How many have shortened their seasons due to membership declines? There probably aren't as many summer job seekers looking for just 5-6 weeks of employment. I spent 9 summers workers on council camp staffs (ages 14-22) and it's hard to envision a scenario where that would make sense for my son today. It was a stretch for me back then.

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'm a (mostly) enthusiastic adult volunteer who is uncomfortable wearing a scout uniform. I do own a blank adult uniform with proper epaulets that's reserved for special occasions, but I prefer to wear khakis and a branded polo to most Pack or Den meetings. I've never served in the military, nor have I been a police officer, fire fighter, or first responder. To me, uniforms convey a much higher level of service. I don't put my life on the line to serve my country or community. I'm just a dad who wants to ensure my son makes friends and gets outdoors. I don't judge other adults on their uniform use unless their sloppy appearance becomes a bad example for the kids.

OP, I hope your son has fun! Lifesaving was my favorite merit badge as a youth. It had a reputation as being very difficult at my local council camp. I did a lot of neat things as a Scout, but I still think of that merit badge as a literal "badge of honor."

I think COVID may have also impacted Scouts' swimming abilities. My son did "mommy and me" swim class when he was 2, but the world changed shortly thereafter and we opted not to send him to swim lessons for two years to help reduce transmission of the virus. Fast forward to last Fall and our son (then 5) was clearly struggling relative to his peers when we finally enrolled him in traditional swim lessons. It was a low point for me as parent. I felt like I had failed him. He refused further lessons because they caused fear and embarrassment. Fortunately, his summer care program uses the YMCA pool 3x per week and he's been able to boost his confidence enough over the past 2 months that we can probably enroll him in mainstream swim lessons again (peer pressure will do that). Point being: It will be interesting to see if there is a meaningful drop in the pass rate of BSA swimmer's tests in a few years (and with that, a meaningful drop in advancement).

I hate to circle back to this because it doesn't sound like it's part of your troop program, but I'm in agreement with what other have suggested ~ some type of job rotation will help boost the introverts' participation without feeling like they're being crowded out by the more assertive kids. If troop leadership has proven to be too stubborn, can get you get in the ear of the SPL? You don't have to push for wholesale change from the start ~ maybe just try asking them for their thoughts on how to improve participation for one outing and see how that goes?

To my relief, when I went to register for the family campout, it was only $45 per family, rather than per person. Now my only gripe is the size of the medical form we're required to fill out. My son is 6. This is our first overnight Scouting event. It appears to have more pages than when I was a kid. 😒

Just curious - how were donors targeted? Did lawyers threaten to lump them into the lawsuit or was their support of the program publicly scrutinized?

I'm not great on keeping track of the happenings at my son's elementary school because I usually get a dozen emails per week. I'll get some from the district, some from the school, some from his teacher, and some through an app, which I've yet to master. It's exhausting. I've yet to be overwhelmed by the variety and frequency of Scouting communications, but I'm sure it's coming. Give me a single sheet of paper each month with everything I need to know and I'm a happy camper.

My Scouting experience (which began in 1990) shaped my worldview more than any other activity. I've always thought the BSA did a nice job of promoting DE&I - save for one huge exception, which has since been rectified. I'd much prefer these conversations happen organically and I think they do when you take families out of the city and put them around a campfire for a weekend.

If you have volunteers that are helping you deliver a fun and safe program, then I would hesitate to set uniform requirements. Maybe start with a friendly email to all leaders covering proper uniforming and see how much traction you get? I often mention proper uniforming in my monthly den newsletter, but I note it's strictly on a best efforts basis. If a child is enjoying Scouting, they can add as they go. I want there to be as few barriers as possible for a child to join Cub Scouts.

And I've yet to quit my corporate job over the constant DEI and ESG pushes. That doesn't mean I'm 100% on board ~ I just like it when my paychecks clear and I can pay my mortgage and buy food. 🙂 I'd imagine it's the same deal for some boys ~ they do what they need to in order to earn the badge.