AScoutIsHonest

Thanks, yes. I have four kids in scouting too. Fwiw my oldest is an Eagle and he didn’t get distracted. He’s in college now and still involved. My oldest two are Sea Scouts.

@DuctTapeThank you for your story. That actually does help. Our son is young enough that perhaps that will be his long-term memory, too. The weird thing is that we feel a little baited and switched. Long story short, during/as a result of lockdown nonsense, packs collapsed (largely due to losing meeting space and difficulty meeting), so my youngest two kids really burned through units. It was extremely frustrating just to get them to cross over. My son finally finished cubs in the pack associated with his current troop. The contact person for this pack was the son of the associated troop’s SM. The same individual is ASM at the troop and he was the main contact person for the troop, too. He was a good communicator, polite, and both units were organized. It was an easy decision to go to that troop. In recent months, his father, who is actually the SM (and who at first we barely knew existed) seems to have reasserted himself, and the problems I have mentioned started to become evident. Unlike his son, the SM is not a good communicator, he is not organized, he is brusk, he can be rude, he is controlling, and he runs meetings. Had we known and seen this a year ago, our son probably would not have ever crossed into the troop.

@fred8033I thank you and everyone else for their kind, thoughtful responses. I appreciate it. I agree with you in the sense that we do not foresee the SM changing and he is apparently a difficult person to interact with. He isn’t going anywhere, either. While we don’t expect any scouter to be a perfect person, that person should nevertheless be approachable, supportive, and respectful. S/he should also follow BSA rules. For us, those are minimum standards of behavior. We also see some other fairly glaring problems with the troop which when added up and contextualized, don’t look good for the future. At 11, he has 7 years left and needs to be someplace that will (1) be supportive and respectful , (2) follows the rules, and (3) is active (monthly camping, etc.).

@MattRYes, I definitely understand that. Have been through similar stuff like this before, although not anywhere near this extreme. My oldest briefly considered changing troops but elected to stay put. It wound up ok, but again, those problems were very different. The most serious aspect of the situation is that he is not approachable (putting it mildly), and yet my son will obviously have to approach him. As a scouter mom from the unit said to me today, “he (SM) does not live out the scout law. He is not kind or courteous…” I am NOT a shy person or someone who’s easily intimidated. This guy makes me nervous. I don’t trust him. And they’re not following some pretty basic BSA rules. Because of the lack of youth leadership, for example, I don’t observe the scouts interacting and collaborating as they should, so I think “making friends” is a stretch. Apparently the SPL had to fight with the SM just to lead a meeting or two (on knife and ax safety). That should not be the case. I don’t think this is an environment that will be changing. We will therefore be visiting other troops with an open mind. We shall see. Ultimately it has to be up to our son, but as his parents, we will definitely give him our assessment of things.

@DuctTapeI agree with you. My conundrum right now is that my son likes the troop. There’s a lot to be said that’s positive—they go on monthly campouts, they are organized and they communicate well via a weekly email. I’ve been involved with units where none of those has been the case. So it will be hard. In addition, he is scheduled to go to summer camp with them. I have already paid and he is all registered. Ugghh!

PS: I found last night’s interaction so troubling, and I never want for my child to feel intimidated by the prospect of speaking with his SM. I created a document which lists some of the infractions/concerns I have at present. Submission of MB worksheets in lieu of working with counselor or any discussion (SM claimS he does 70-100 MBs. We refuse to do it this way.) Sometimes dictating to scouts which MBs they should take at camp Telling a scout he must work only with MB counselors in his council (We live on the edge of two councils and I have children in both.) Claiming that swimming is a prerequisite for kayaking (etc.) (Passing erroneous information) Refusal to sign blue cards (didn’t even look at them or consider what they were) Device/video game use without restriction or sufficient supervision at lock-ins (ie “there has never been a problem”—I had conversation with ASM about this yesterday and apparently nothing will change) “Slow down” as rationale for impeding scout progress and goals Yelling at/shooing away/speaking harshly to a scout and a parent Lack of awareness of scout rank Insufficient scout (youth) leadership at meetings (meetings run by adults) SM runs committee mtgs, disallows SPL in committee mtgs

@InquisitiveScouter 1. How many Scouts are in the Troop? There are about 40. 2. How was this SM's decision exclusively to sign all blue cards put out. Apparently he verbalized this privately to an ASM. This ASM then communicated the information to me via text. It was not a public announcement that I am aware of. 3. How many blue cards are we talking about? He needed to turn in one completed card (first aid, which he busted his butt to do bc the SM said he HAD to do it at camp, but my son did not WANT to do that one at camp). He had inadvertently forgotten to have two blue cards signed (he had filled them out) for two several-month electives. Neither are difficult and relate primarily to daily chores he already does. He also requested two Eagle three-month for the summer (PM/FL), which again wouldn’t change his life much (normal chores and some written work). Two minor electives were the last. (My daughter did these recently and they took about a week each. My oldest, who’s 18, also did these so I’m familiar.) That’s six, but it’s for the whole summer because they aren’t meeting. They’re longitudinal, so keeping track on a daily chart is really the hardest part of the four. It isn’t like he was asking for scuba, wilderness survival, lifesaving, farm mechanics, and emergency prep!!! Haha! Oh, and we already have MB counselors for all. 4. Ask your Scout if any other Scouts are in a similar situation. If yes, then maybe discuss with some other parents to find a way ahead. My kid is a little socially clueless and bc an ASM runs his patrol (a younger scout patrol), he doesn’t have much chance for those kinds of questions. My impression, especially after the lengthy phone discussion I just had with another scout(er) parent from this troop is that most aren’t too ambitious. I don’t really get why anyone would discourage a scout. 5. Is the Troop going to Summer Camp? If not, then do you know about "Provisional Troops"? Yes they are and yes I am very familiar. My oldest has gone prov to camp many times, including to high adventure bases. Thanks for the suggestion!

@MattRI just got off a lengthy phone call with an adult from the troop (long-time scouter) and she confirmed that ASMs are barely allowed. As of last week or so, only the SM can sign blue cards, which for a troop of around 40, seems impractical. We have a few but they don’t do anything, honestly. The woman with whom I spoke, her husband is one and she totally agrees.

@Eagle94-A1Yes I agree with you, also! I have told them the same thing, two years running.

@MattRI agree that it is over the top, but according to the Guide to Advancement, he is not allowed to deny a blue card for any reason.

Hello, My son’s troop is not meeting over the summer and he therefore wanted to complete some MBs during this time (primarily long-term type ones that are ideally suited to the summer). He presented the blue cards to the scoutmaster during the allotted time at the beginning of the meeting and was shooed away. He then presented them at the end of the meeting and he was told no. He was barely able to get the scoutmaster to accept his *completed* first aid blue card, which he worked hard to finish at the behest of same scoutmaster, who then turned around and yelled at him/us, saying he was doing too much and to slow down. (That’s not his call—that’s my son’s decision.) Scoutmaster was completely unaware of my son’s present rank. This is the last episode in a series of exchanges I have witnessed that I find troubling. My son was very discouraged at being treated this way. None of this would be as bothersome except for the fact that the last week or so, the scoutmaster decided that only he will be signing off on blue cards from now on. ASM are not permitted to any longer, so the scouts MUST come to him. There is no way around it. I am aware that the scoutmaster is in violation of the rules in denying my son the blue cards. I have encouraged him to visit a different troop because I do not see the situation changing. It is unfortunate because the unit is otherwise good and he likes it, but the scoutmaster has been described to me by a parent/leader in this unit as “a control freak.” I don’t think she’s wrong. I feel terrible for my son. Not sure what to do.