Ojoman

You can find most councils annual tax report, 990, on the internet. Usually a year behind but still a good indicator of where the council's income comes from and where it goes. There is a lot of good information to be gleaned. Professional staff, camp expenses and insurances generally make up the bulk of costs. Frankly, the board and key professionals should be generating the bulk of the needed income through various fund raising efforts. Mergers and cutting staff positions are part of the membership problem today. Less staffing equals fewer support services for the volunteers. If each staffer represented 800 to 1000 volunteers and you go from 8 to 6 staff then you will probably see the number of volunteers, units and youth start to decline. The BSA at council levels is far smaller (professionally) now than it was 20, 30 or even 50 years ago. It is a problem...

"Our Pack is struggling. Number-wise we are OK but the program we offer is not great. I do think if the Cub Scout program were delivered as designed it would be a great thing for the kids. I have taken basically every Cub Scout training class on my.scouting.com. The problem isn’t about knowing what should be happening, but instead about how to make it happen. My goal here isn’t to bash any part of the program, but to get help in dealing with these issues. Here are some specific concerns:" 1. Not enough adult help: A common problem when packs only recruit Cubs and not their parents. The goal must be to engage the whole family. Induct the parents with the kids. Set the bar high in expectations of parental support and involvement. This starts on day 1. Have the ‘active’ parents give testimonials. Have one volunteer assigned to orient new parents/families to the pack. Seek out parents and ask for their help and support. 2. No venue. The best packs often have the dens meeting when and where the den leaders want them to meet. The Pack meeting (once a month) is for the dens to show off, to give recognition/awards out and for fellowship. Some of the best pack meetings can and should be out of doors during the summer and good weather months. Cubs should be a 12 month experience. If you need an indoor meeting place for the school year or during inclement weather and your chartered partner is unable to provide one, canvass your parents or check local churches, schools, and service/fraternal groups. 3. No council. Frankly, a well run pack only ‘needs’ the council for registration/insurance purposes and for district/council events (Daycamp, Family Camp, Roundups/school nights). For most program the pack should be able to plan and execute a solid 12 month program. I would suggest an annual pack planning meeting with key leaders and setting up an 18 month plan. 4. Cost. The cost of everything goes up… but there are ways to control expenses. Set up a uniform bank/exchange. Canvas local thrift stores for uniforms and have families ‘donate’ shirts that have been outgrown. Have the pack make a pack neckerchief and class B shirt. Plan an annual program that is not ‘expensive’. Day use of council properties is generally free or at minimal cost. Council and district events are also generally affordable. Most packs are situated near parks, hiking trails and historic sites that can offer free/low cost programs. With a little planning packs can keep their programs not only affordable but a real bargain. Again, Cubs should be active for a full year. 5. Too wide an age range. While I agree that it is difficult to ‘retain’ membership in a program that spans 5 ½ years, it is not impossible. First, see that your program plan meets the interests and needs of both kids and parents. It will help if you plan program in 3 steps K-1, 2-3, 4-5. When it comes to crafts and activities kids and families need to see a progression. True, the advancement program is geared to that but the rest of your program needs to progress also. An example would be a Webelos Program with a ‘mini high adventure’ aspect such as earning a trail medal or a challenging hiking and camping experience that will excite the kids. Follow the guide to age appropriate activities and the guide to safe scouting. A really strong program will not only retain Cubs and families but will attract new members at the higher ages by both recruiting and word of mouth. 6. Outdoor vs. indoor. This is a common mistake; don’t build your program on advancement. Advancement mainly is den and family oriented. Plan your program on fun, excitement and giving kids new and challenging experiences that may or may not support advancement. Use your resources, community events, parades, science and nature centers and more. Get group rates to sports events or other venues. Have parents with special skills, hobbies or careers provide programs such as a tour of a fire hall, animal shelter or manufacturing facility. (Parent talent survey can help with this). Encourage the Cubs to do unique things like have a pack photo contest, art contest, genus night, movie night and the list goes on. 7. Religion. Each year, my sons pack offered the opportunity for the cubs to earn the religious award of their faith (or for an unchurched family to pick one award) Most faiths offer cubs the opportunity to earn two awards during their Cub Scout years. One early on and one as a bear/Webelos. This helped meet the ‘Duty to God’ portion of the program without any discrimination towards any group or individual. Participation was optional and generally all of the families did get involved. For some it was a welcome opportunity to discuss their personal faith/beliefs with their kids.

Great point!!! But we need to remember that means that the Den meetings for cubs need to be geared to their interests and abilities and grow with them and the pack meetings need to incorporate elements that recognize and interest all 6 grade levels... Field trips can be done by dens so older kids do more challenging things. In troops it means engaging all of the scouts in a meaningful way at the patrol and troop level. Monthly camping, hiking or other interesting and challenging activity along with one (or more) high adventure type events... Canoe trip, Historic trails challenge, caving, rock climbing (even at an indoor facility for climbing and rappelling) or other significant program. Most of our members time is spent in meetings and if they are dull/boring that can be deadly to retention. Thanks for the comment.

While I agree with the marketing remarks I also think a huge part of the problem is RETENTION. We used to have in person training, Pow Wow's and roundtables. Roundtable participation where it is 'in person' is often very low compared to a few years ago. Volunteers were better equipped to run high quality local unit programs that better met the needs/interests of both youth and parents. Cubbing retention is generally poor in part to having to hold a members interest for 5 1/2 years. We can do better.

Glad to see the regular activities. Our pack had both pack activities and encouraged the dens to do field trips on their own. A lot of places you can take 6 or 8 kids but not larger groups. Our den toured the airport including one of the control towers and another time went to a pizza hut and the kids were allowed to make their own personal pizza. We tipped heavy on the pizza trip especially since they didn't charge for the pizza and drinks. Cubs builds memories. for a lifetime.

Dens were originally designed to meet in the neighborhood, usually at the den leaders home. The monthly pack meeting was a big event when all the dens would come together and show off what they had been doing including crafts, skits, songs, opening and closing ceremonies and also badges that had been earned during the prior month were presented. It was a big deal. These days many, if not most, packs tend to meet together every week and after an opening, they have breakouts for the dens. It kind of takes some of the magic and excitement out of the old getting together once a month. Also, it locks all the dens into a specific night. It used to be that the den leaders could hold their meetings when it was most convenient for them. Weeknights, evenings, weekend... the only date that was locked in was the pack night. I think the 'old' was was much better in serving the kids and leaders.

Most troops today are small. Few have more than 2 patrols. Packs often only cross over a couple of AOL's, having lost most of the others that originally joined, during the 5 1/2 year long program. Since there is not time/tenure requirement from Tenderfoot to first class and older youth joining can 'catch up' within the first 5 or 6 months. An older youth can also work on merit badges with his/her friends as they work towards their higher ranks. The only thing that will hold the new youth back would be tenure requirements and leadership requirements. If we impress on our older scouts, grade 8 and up, of the type of resume they are building through leadership training and offices held along with badges and ranks earned, perhaps the word would get out and more of their peers would join at those higher ages.

Based on the membership crashes of the past several years, that doesn't seem to be bearing up. All anyone needs to do is to look at the Council membership reports by grade for Cub Scouts and you will see that most packs lose 60% or more of their Lions/Tigers by the Webelos years and many Webelos drop out prior to graduating into troops. Most packs are built like a pyramid with a large base at gr k & 1 and a small group at the top. The reality is that if they are offering a solid program that meets the needs and interests at the various 'ages and stages' of the kids that the Pack would be larger at the top than the bottom as kids would be attracted and join their friends in the later years as they hear about/learn about the great experiences their buddies are having.

You describe perhaps one in 100 units that have the level of commitment/dedication by the leadership to become so competent that they don't require any support. Scouting is supposed to be a brotherhood and the structure was put there for a purpose. God Bless those few highly competent units that run so well but eventually every unit will run into issues as the experience leadership turnover. We need more opportunities like 'Pow Wow's' and 'Univ. of Scouting' events as well as well attended roundtables to deliver the best programs.

Years ago I discovered that sports wasn't the problem. Our Pack started with 6 families, two years later we had over 50 and a year after that split a new pack off with 30 families and we were still around 50. We had 100% retention except for families that moved away. Kids, Parents, everyone was having a good time and when folks are happy they stay. Yes, we had single parents, yes we had 2 parent working families, yes we had sports to compete with (baseball, soccer, basketball, football, swim team, hockey and more). But we became the competition by running a high quality 12 month program that engaged the families. Don't blame sports. We didn't have the internet but we had to compete with Nintendo and Atari. The troop grew in short order from 2 kids attending meetings to well over 20 and probably went a lot higher but we moved and lost track of them. Don't point fingers at sports and family structure to explain the decline. We did take a hit when the decade of resisting the LGBTQ lawsuits and bad press cost us donors including United Way as they were pressured to defund us and as we were labeled bigots and hate mongers. It was an unwinnable fight and more recently we got hit again by the 'shyster' lawyers that used todays standards to judge 30, 40 and 50 year old abuse cases against the BSA and went after the BSA instead of the 'perverts' because the BSA had assets. Many lawyers/law firms specialized in suing the BSA and for my money the BSA mostly rolled over. We got labeled as enablers to sexual predators and our ineligible volunteer files were labeled the "perversion files". That didn't help our membership much and the whole thing has cost the BSA chartered partner relationships, units and membership. Covid seems to have completed the perfect storm as neither the Cub or Scout programs are suited to staying home and doing stuff on line. We have a long, hard road ahead of us and I expect many will be too tired or frustrated to continue. Time will tell. But I do agree that making the programs focus advancement instead of leadership, character and citizenship is a mistake. The magic of Scouting was that kids learned to have their character developed by having fun. Greenbar Bill Hillcourt said that "Scouting is a game with a purpose". BP often likened Scouting to 'a game'. Advancement, like character, leadership and citizenship, should happen as a result of 'playing the game'.

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.' Having said that, we then need to ask ourselves why do kids want to join and why do parents sign them up? The short answer is that kids want to have fun with friends... parents want their kids in a safe, wholesome environment that will support their family values. The quality of the program experience varies widely from one unit to the next. In a perfect world every pack and troop would offer an outstanding program that met the needs of all concerned. We don't live in or operate in that world. This is why a quality district staff including commissioners, trainers and program support volunteers is critical along with solid district/council staff support. Sadly, too many of those elements are missing these days.

SCOUTREACH is generally an expensive program to run. Often a professional or a 'program aide' is charged with most or all of the steps of organizing and running a unit or units. With the registration fees now as high as they are along with other increased costs it is more and more unlikely that low income kids in inner city neighborhoods will have the opportunity to participate in Scouts. God bless those churches and other chartered partners in those areas that care enough to make the program accessible and affordable. Scouting can help to counter early dropouts, gangs, drugs, adolescent pregnancy's and anti social behaviors in general. We need it more now than ever.

At our recent district committee meeting we were told we were ahead of last year in membership. Not a difficult thing considering the losses of the past two years. However, for the first time in recent memory we have fewer Cubs than Scouts and that should be a huge red flag. Cubs is a 6 year program (5 1/2) actually but Scouts has generally been targeted at 3 grade levels. Without retention in Cubs, Scouts will continue to decline. As families join this fall, packs must offer programs designed to meet the needs of kids and families. Most packs run a fairly blended program which means that the cubs tend to see a lot of repetition year after year with pack events and activities. 4th n 5th graders often are doing many of the things that younger kids do. This is wrong. The program needs to grow in every area, not just in the advancement area. It's not bad to plan activities for gr k&1, then gr 2&3 and then Webelos. Check the age appropriate information and guide to safe scouting and plan accordingly. Also, put together a strong 12 month program. Kids have the most free time in the summer and the best weather for outdoor activities, hikes, bike trips, boating and swimming along with litter and neighborhood cleanups and good turns can turn a boring summer into a fun and exciting growth experience. A positive 12 month program encourages retention. In fact, a really healthy pack will gain members at every level and end up with more Cubs in the higher grade levels due to word of mouth. When kids talk to friends about their experiences, friends and families want to join to have the same experiences. Remember KISMIF!

The BSA is messed up and not just because the LDS church pulled out and some Law Firms decided to specialize on suing the BSA... Membership losses have been going on for a long time. The controversy over the LGBTQ cost the BSA chartered partners, membership and millions and millions of $$$$. Sadly, all the increased expenses to join and for handbooks and uniforms on top of the other problems will only exacerbate the problem. Cubbing should be less expensive than Scouts BSA in part because it is a conduit for membership. We need to attract more families. Each family represents significant potential income to the local council as well as to national. Product sales, camp fees, and friends of scouting account for a significant portion of each councils budget and making cubs more expensive creates an unnecessary hurdle to membership. Both national and local councils need to get off their collective butts and raise the operating funds needed instead of hiking registration fees. For Scouting's first 100 years local councils for the most part did not pass along operating expenses as part of the annual registration costs. There is still a lot of $$$ out there and it is the job of the professionals and the executive boards and district leadership to go get it. Syracuse used to serve the low income neighborhoods but that program (Scoutreach) does not even exist today. Our council has a 0% density in the city schools. That is totally unacceptable to me. The failure of councils to maintain staff, districts and services is also a major component of the failure of the leadership. There are some councils that have sound, competent leadership but too few and probably too little, too late. Pre covid during the working of the agreement on the bankruptcy the BSA projected a 3% growth in traditional membership for the foreseeable future. That was prior to the devastating membership losses due to the pandemic. In the past half a century the BSA has not seen membership growth and I doubt that they will change that trend on their present course. (I won't count replacement of the covid losses as growth until we exceed the 2019 membership numbers which I doubt we will ever see. If you don't agree, please tell me why... I'd love to see hope for this great program.

$23 for a cub scout hat???? go to the dollar store and buy a hat and glue a badge of rank to it... $13 for a neckerchief, make your own silk screen and make your own, $8 for a slide? There are so many ways to make an interesting slide for next to nothing... $41 to change over every year times 5 years is over $200 plus tax... That is B*llsh**t... You can do the same thing for $5 or $6 the first year, less than the tax you would pay over 5 years and use the stuff for all 5 years. Some stuff you have to buy... Annual hats, slides and neckerchiefs are easy to replace with inexpensive personalized uniform parts. Some packs simply pass the slides and neckerchiefs along in a pack graduation program and use the same stuff each year. Hats are pretty much optional anyway.

OK, I'm old but in my day, Cubs was gr 3,4 and 5. Cost $1.00 per year. New handbook each year at less than $1.00. Adjusted for inflation would = $10.00. Low and lower middle income families will have a tough time especially if they have multiple kids and/or a parent wants/needs to be a leader. Having a parent sew together the red vest to display badges and wear a neckerchief as a pack uniform could make things a bit easier. Starting a uniform bank/exchange helps too. It's a great program... we need to find ways to get it to more kids/families.

Here in Syracuse NY we have lost 90%+ of our traditional membership since 2000. Covid simply exacerbated the problem. A failure of the council leadership to generate enough funds to maintain the professional staff and other services resulted in mergers and staff cuts which resulted in less support and service to volunteers and a decline in the number of volunteers, units and members. The program nationally started to lose membership in the mid 70's and hasn't seen growth since then except when they lowered the age or added a new program and when you adjust for that there has not been a single year since then that our traditional programs have actually grown. Syracuse is an extreme example of what has been happening across the nation. Probably the best program for instilling leadership, character and citizenship in kids is dying.

BUILD BACK BETTER While that hasn't worked for Biden or the country it could be a motto for the BSA in growing membership. The first step to fixing any problem is to admit that there is a problem, identify the causes of the problem and go to work on those problems, (underlying issues) My first boss and mentor in professional scouting was Harry Mangle. Also my best boss and mentor. Harry would be shocked and saddened by where the BSA is today. We (the BSA) have lost our connections with our schools (teachers and administrators), lost our relationship with our chartered partners, councils/districts have lost their connections with leaders/volunteers and instead of raising the funds to maintain services we have merged councils and districts, cut unit serving positions and sold off properties. In the 1960's we served as much as 20% or more of the available youth in many parts of the nation. Today we serve less than 2%. Instead of cultivating the public to support local scouting councils are tacking on 'service' and 'insurance' fees to the national fee. If we were serving just 10% of the available youth national could get along quite well on a $12 registration fee. I tend to agree with many here that the membership and program will continue to decline because the national office and local councils are unwilling or unable to address the real reasons for membership decline. Now and then, here or there, we find a pack, troop or crew that is having an outstanding success but we fail to learn from them. We have failed to KEEP IT SIMPLE, MAKE IT FUN. and the result is where we are now. We need to be the best show in town! We were once and we could be again but we don't have the leadership or the will anymore.

KISMIF: Keep it simple, make it fun... Check the national videos for ideas or just use those. Show or talk about kids having fun, making friends, earning badges and going on field trips plus camping... Field sports interest most cub age kids, archery and bb ranges are exciting.

At the moment the school district that I live in has 9 elementary schools with enrollments of between 400 and 500 each. We have perhaps 1 pack left while there are enough students for each school to easily support a pack. This is a disaster. There are 10 school districts within our district borders and somewhere between 80 and 100 schools including private and parochial. We have a little over 40 total units in the district and the city schools have a 0% density because the 'Scoutreach' program fell apart years ago. Frankly, I doubt that the council will ever fully recover from a combination of mismanagement over the past 25 years at all levels from the council to the region/area/territory to national and the adverse environments including the attacks and revisions on and of our leadership/membership standards and the negative ads over the past couple of years that culminated in the national bankruptcy. I hope I am wrong.

I went to one of those schools that pumped out college bound students, so did my sons. My oldest decided to go to the BOCE's (vo-tech) and his guidance counselor was so pleased. He said he saw so many kids apply and go off to colleges when it wasn't right for them. The expense and time along with many 'washing out' of college. I read where about 80% of graduates end up in jobs other than their major. My son is now a supervisor and makes good money. Both boys benefited from Scouts... it's a shame when schools deny their students enrichment opportunities through partnerships with groups like Scouting, 4-H, jr. civil air and others.

School administrators and teachers are paid with tax dollars. They are public servants and while it is important to avoid disrupting teaching time, announcements or a flyer distribution at the end of the day once or twice a year doesn't seem to me to be a huge disruption. On the equal access act there are only a few (4 or 5) groups that might ever request access. This is not a huge problem. As a taxpayer that is dinged thousands each year to support local schools, I'd surely make my voice heard and I'd encourage other parents and taxpayers to do the same. Meanwhile CRT and other 'stupid' social engineering teachings are being brought into the schools. My grandson is doing common core and when his dad showed him a better way to do math he said, 'why don't they teach it this way in school, this is so easy'. There is an agenda going on that isn't helping prepare our kids for the future. Too many sheep willing to just shut up and follow and allow administrators to act like the schools are their personal domains.

Sad that your council effectively shuts units out from building school relationships especially since National promotes the adopt a school program and encourages as much interaction between school districts, individual schools, administrators, school boards and pto/ptas. Sounds wrong but if that is the way it is... https://www.scouting.org/adopt-a-school/

You have a school board, PTO/PTA and direct access to administration. I have never had a school refuse to talk with me and once they understand the benefits to the kids (we are both in the business of preparing kids for the future and to be good citizens) we were always able to work out a mutually agreeable solution. If even one grade brings in a fireman, EMT or police officer to speak to kids, guess what, that represents an outside group. Many schools bring in people from humane or SPCA groups. It's all about relationships and too often we have let those languish. Correct but often referenced as the scout access act.

Several important issues here... First, packs and troops need to be in a symbiotic relationship where they support each other. The best example of that was a pk/tr in the west end of Pittsburgh where the Troop hosted the packs B&G, gave them den chiefs and assisted with other aspects including a tr/ webelos event. The pack hosted the troops annual banquet and court of honor and also attended Eagle presentations. A troop that supports its pack should never 'lose' its pack. As for school recruiting and relationships, that should be the responsibility of the unit leaders and parents. They are the ones with kids in that school system and need to maintain a positive relationship. BTW it is a federal regulation that school district must give scouting the same access to students that they give to any other outside group. Every school district has at some point outside groups that come in to interact with students from speakers to book mobiles and so forth. Check out the BSA access law. The adopt a school program encourages packs and troops to be partners with their schools. PTAs would love to have a Pack or Troop committee adopt a fun program for the students, everything from movie night to dances to a picnic on the school grounds. A troop needs to provide the type of program that meets the needs of its members and families. A troop with a lot of fun learning opportunities for advancement and leadership is certainly superior to a unit that doesn't provide that. Good luck and I would suggest that your troop leadership (including youth leaders) see if you can rebuild your lost pack.