Ojoman

All too often the COR of a unit is a ‘placeholder’ to meet the requirements of getting a charter issued. In reality the COR is a powerful position within the unit, district and council. The duties and responsibilities can be found here: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-421(16)_WEB.pdf and few volunteers, even at the district and council level really understand or appreciate the power of this position. The Chartered Organization Representative is an automatic member of the district committee and also a voting member of the Council Executive Board. While it is rare, a group of COR’s could alter and/or impact the direction of a council or certain council policies. An active COR can insure that a unit receives the support from the district and council that it needs to flourish. Technically the institutional head and/or the governing body of the partnering organization selects the COR but the reality is that generally the COR comes from among the units leadership and parents and oftentimes only is called upon to approve adult registrations and to sign off at recharter time. Smart units will work at getting a COR that will understand and accept this important role and represent the units interests and bring light to those issues that impact unit recruiting, retention, fundraising and program. Congratulations to those units that have solid, functioning COR’s and good luck to those that need to find the appropriate person for the position.

That is a sign of a bad coach, frustrated Lombardi wannabees... then there are parents that push their kids too. I have so many stories of the powerful/positive impact of Scouting. There are many kids out there that are not so into sports or band. We need to reach out to them and connect with a great local program. Today we are literally in a fight for our kids future and the values, character and citizenship that they need. Sadly, we have been losing ground for decades and that needs to end.

I agree that Scouting is a good value but unlike a lot of other youth activities, Scouting depends upon a certain amount of parent participation to be successful. In sports you often have 1 or 2 coaches and mom n dad mostly sit on the sidelines or dropoff and pickup their kid or send him with a friends family. Then there are the new restrictions and registration/YPT requirements for parents to participate just as parents. It is no longer 'keep it simple and make it fun'. Also, councils need to do more to support the units with local, in person trainings including POW WOW and U of Sctg. We desperately need more adults that are dedicated and well equipped. Kids and parents whose needs are met stay in. There is no reason to have 25 or 30 percent turnover. We shouldn't fear the competition, we should be the competition.

I just looked up the costs for a cub uniform. You need the belt for the loops so belt, shirt, slide, neckerchief hit $69 and then add numerals and CSP. Pant and hat add another $56. This on top of the National and local council fees to join and then the hat, neckerchief and slide change each year for $44 more annually until the kid outgrows the shirt and pants or goes into Webelos for a whole new uniform. BSA does fund a good deal of the retirement with Scout Shop sales but let's get serious. Families are tired of all the expenses. Something needs to give. Go Basic shirt and belt with jeans... IMHO

I agree. When my kids were in costs were a lot less but even so the pack made their own neckerchiefs with a silk screen design. These days with new uniform parts for each grade/rank in cubs it is recidulous! Also, the shear number of pins and badges for cubs is out of control. This all adds to the costs of the program. Some units have a Tshirt as a class B uniform which is GREAT. It promotes the pack and their location/chartered partner. We need more of that. A sharp tshirt is something the kids may wear to school or other activities and can be a recruiting tool. Anything that keeps kids and families away from the program is a negative. The benefits of membership and participation are too important. The units should set their own standards and as long as it isn't sloppy I'm in favor.

Common sense and the old 2 deep leader rule should have been enough but the problem with common sense is that it isn't very common. Since the lawsuit, which was handled very poorly, and the bankruptcy that may still put the BSA out of business the pendulum has swung so far from center it may never return. Now, everyone has to register, everyone has to be trained and costs are going through the roof. This isn't your fathers BSA.

The plain truth today is that there is a lack of RETENTION in the Cub program. Many packs only cross a couple of AOL's to Scouts because they only have a couple. My kids were in about the time that Tigers came out. Tiger uniform was a T shirt with iron ons for things they accomplished. Those kids wanted to become Wolf Cubs and get that blue uniform with all the patches. Keeping the program exciting at each stage as well as growing and more challenging is a key. We actually GREW in the higher ages as friends/buddies heard what we were doing and asked to join or were recruited. The program is awesome but the unit leaders need to be trained and supported in getting it delivered. Parents need to be engaged! Scouting should not be a weak or lackluster program.

Sadly, The kids, parents, chartered partners (CR & IH) and local officials were betrayed by people that they 'trusted' with kids. Your role is public in a parking lot and doesn't involve being an authority figure to kids. Big difference. With the type of settlements being handed out and the cost of background checks, insurance and related expenses it is more important now than ever to engage everyone young and old in Youth Protection #1 for the kids and #2 for the program. I personally believe that the BSA has been and will continue to be one of the best and safest programs for kids. 1 abused kid is too many.

THERE IS A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF OUR SOCIETY THAT WANTS SCOUTING BSA GONE! They have been working for decades to destroy a program that teaches responsibility and accountability, discipline, respect and Duty to one's own God. They don't want honesty, character, citizenship or wholesome programs and activities taught or given to our children. We are seeing our kids growing up surrounded by entertainment that glorifies sex, drugs and violence along with disrespect for authorities. Families have drifted away from churches, and 1 in every three children live in a single parent home while many others are in blended families due to divorce. Childhood poverty is higher now than ever and urban environments are unsafe for raising children. Regardless of the cost, we must find new ways to deliver the values of Scouting. Today, we are in a battle for the hearts, minds and very souls of our kids. Scouting may not be the total answer but it can and should be a big part of the answer. You can't put a price on a child"s future and it has been proven over and over that kids and families benefit greatly from involvement in Scouting.

For the last 30 years there have been elements that objected to various 'values' expressed by the BSA and their Chartered Partners which resulted in activists dragging the BSA into court at great expense. At the same time the BSA was slow to respond to social changes. This resulted in declines in membership and losses from certain funding sources including many United Way agencies. More recently the BSA went through a major court case that awarded over 2.4 Billion in damages of which Lawyers will get about 1 Billion. It was easier and more profitable to sue the BSA instead of going after individual abusers. These things are far from over and have forced the BSA to sharply increase fees and revamp criteria for parents and volunteers. This is literally killing one of the best programs for instilling character and citizenship in young people. Additionally, with a shrinking professional support team local councils have found it easier to tack on their own service fees than raise operating funds, these fees did not exist until recently. While the 12 month program often is not more expensive than enrollment in sports programs for the youths, the costs for parents to 'volunteer' along with the youth increase is burdensome to many families. Time will tell if the BSA will survive all of this. I hope it does.

35 years ago, nor really so long ago... we rebuilt a pack that had limped along with a dozen or so kids. We started with half a dozen families but we set the bar high. We built a GREAT program and had the expectation that the parents JOINED with their kids. We had family involved events, field trips and activities. We included the sisters in many things back before they could be members. Today with blended program it is easier to do. Eventually it was apparent to families that joined that parents were part of the pack. The family that plays together in Cubbing stays together in Cubbing.

IMHO There have been too many mergers of councils and districts. Over my years as a member of the BSA profession I learned that of all my goals and 'critical achievements' the easiest ones to manage were my finance goals. Frankly, there is a lot of $$$ out there but some professionals are either too incompetent or to untrained to go out and get it. Here they merged 3 councils into one in recent years and went from 11 districts down to 3. The geography is daunting and in my district we now have around 19 school districts with over 50 elementary and middle schools not counting parochial, charter and private. They put an entry level DE into this district. Ridiculous. And distances to the scout shop and council service center are unreasonable. The larger the council and districts the less direct service the district volunteers and unit volunteers receive. The less sound direction and service the more turnover and drops. I seldom hear folks say positives about 'the council' but I hear enough negatives. Very discouraging. In 2019 we showed just over 6,000 volunteers, in 2021 just barely over 1,000 (source 990). With the new fees I expect that number to drop even more. A very sad state of affairs. The question is, can we turn this around or is it too late?

My personal opinion on Tigers and Lions is that the BSA was in a membership decline and they needed to pump up the numbers and the registration dollars going to National. Yes, some people complained that the GSA started in kindergarten but honestly, we did not have membership growth in our core programs since the 70's when you compare apples to apples. Total growth was achieved by increasing the market by lowering the ages/grades to enter the program. Leaders now need to keep a families interest for 5 1/2 years instead of 3 or 4. A well run pack with strong, creative leadership can be successful but they are scarce. Retention is the only way to have AOL's to cross to a troop. 25 or 30 years ago it was common to see 8 or 10 cubs cross to scouts. Now it is a trickle even with the girls in the program. We need to break cubbing down into two year increments. Plan out two years of pack and den activities and program for gr k&1, two for gr 2&3 and Two for gr 4&5 that meet the needs of those specific grades so the kids feel and see the difference and you will have retention. Without retention you are just trying to fill up a bucket full of holes by recruiting to replace loss. STOP THE DROP...

My kids were/are the nintendo/atari generation and that was just as exciting to them as the games and internet is to todays kids. My grandson doesn't have to invite his friends over, they play on the internet. That said, he is often bored as the games are no longer so novel even though the graphics are far superior to what my kids had. Our neighborhood/school district offered all the present distractions of multiple sports programs and the local cub pack had folded (twice in 2 years). My kids were coming of cub age and I contacted the Scout office and we held a sign up at the school in January. We rechartered with 6 families and every family took a position. We got everyone trained and had a planning meeting and drafted a 12 month program complete with den meetings over the summer and pack meetings and events that would qualify us for the Summertime award. The result, 2 years later we had over 50 families in the pack and towards the 3rd year we split off a 30 member pack at another church because we were getting too big. The keys are to engage the parents along with the kids while meeting the needs and expectations of parents and kids. An active, well rounded 12 month program is key to retention. As long as kids are working towards and earning badges and getting recognition they stay. As long as they look forward to program growth as they move up (more challenge, more fun, more excitement) they stay. One of todays PROBLEMS is that the program is now 6 years instead of 4. That is a long time to retain a kids interest. I would suggest building the program in 3 stages, lion/tiger, wolf/bear and Webelos/Aol. A great program retains and attracts. And yes, I understand the challenge with 30% single parents and work pressures but we had that back then and overcame it. GOOD LUCK!

I suppose that sometimes stress can cause tempers to flare but it doesn't matter if it is a professional or a volunteer doing the screaming/cursing, there is really no place in the program for that type of behavior. An out of character outburst might be excused once but if that behavior is the norm it needs to be called out and corrected. You are correct that volunteers being subjected to that will leave and understandably so.

Years ago, as a council professional, I ran the entire cub summer program from a dozen day camps/firefly camps to 3 webelos and 3 cub parent weekends. One of my key volunteers (yes, every camp was run by volunteers) asked me, 'do you know why we all give up so much to do this?' and I said, 'Because you believe in the program'. And she said, 'No, it's because you thank us'. I think all of my volunteers knew that I both needed and treasured them. I learned the value of THANKS my first year in great part due to an outstanding council exec. But that is a longer story...

Some (and perhaps much) of what you pointed out can be found in many districts/councils. We need to remember that 90% or more of program happens in the troop or pack. Enjoyable meetings and activities where the kids grow in the program with their friends should be the primary focus of unit leaders. The district and council can supply some experiences such as camporees and long term camp or family camp but the kids and their parents join and stay when their needs and interests are being met monthly. The council needs the units and should be supporting the volunteers and always in a positive way. Too often the words ,' I'm from the council and I'm here to help you' ring like the Ron Regan joke about the government.

Sadly, most troops and packs today have the minimum number of volunteers to keep a charter. Often the unit leader and assistants wear multiple hats at the unit level as committee members. We end up 'burning them out' by over working them and when they leave there is no one to replace them. The best folks for district leadership are often those whose kids have graduated from the program. They too often just figure their kid is out and so they 'drop our' too. Many, if asked, would serve. My dad became a unit commissioner after I 'graduated' from the troop and went off to college. We need to salvage those volunteers.

The UK has launched a massive campaign to recruit adults. I looked up my councils 990 forms on line and found that we have lost around 70+% of our registered adult leaders in the 4 years running up to 2022. It's pretty simple, no leaders, no program. I also read a copy of my councils 2022 membership plan issued in January of that year which called for each district to have a functioning membership committee. To date I don't think any of the 3 districts even have a chairman let alone a committee. The report was impressive (see attached) with a lot of good, even great information but unless implemented is worthless. I don't know how many people worked on it or had input but I hope that it gets resurrected and implemented as that would be a step in the right direction. 2022 longhouse member plan.pdf

With a roughly 50 year history of membership declines behind us, the losses of donors and United Way/corporate support from the leadership standards issues of the 80's to early 2000's and more recently the huge negative campaign of the past several years by law firms that resulted in the bankruptcy and loss of trust on the part of many of our chartered partners not to mention the withdrawal of the LDS church and the impact that COVID had, I have to question the ability of BSA to recover. With the dramatically increased costs of registration, uniforms and supplies and activities, it would seem that our programs are being priced away from a substantial number of families. Add to costs is the massive loss of volunteers and the failure or inability to attract new, younger volunteers as well as parents that don't step up at the unit level. Today there are far fewer councils and districts and a fraction of the unit serving professionals that we enjoyed just 20 or 30 years ago. In many areas the BSA is serving less than 1% of the available youth and in low income areas entire school districts have no units within their boundaries. My council in Syracuse had 11 districts and now has 3. One merged district has around 20 school districts, over 50 elementary and middle schools plus private and parochial schools and only 37 total packs and troops. This begs the question, can the BSA rebuild and re-establish itself as a preeminent youth program? Frankly, while I believe it is the best, most valuable activity for youth I don't see the leadership to accomplish what needs to be done. I'd be interested in what others feel about the present situation and thoughts on the steps and direction that needs to be taken to grow the BSA programs and services.

Back 20 +/- years ago funding agencies such as the United Way were lobbied to terminate support and many did. In Philadelphia the council lost their office that the Scouts built on city property with a promise of perpetual use when the city pulled the rug out from under them. Here in Syracuse we lost over 100k and that forced cutbacks in the LFL and Scoutreach programs. Scoutreach hurt the most. Some folks felt that our stance was political in nature and dropped us while others left after we changed our policy feeling we 'sold out'. It was a 'can't win' scenario. The BSA was caught between a rock and a hard place on the admission of girls (which I 100% support) and then the lawsuit and bankruptcy where long time donors saw camps sold and endowments reduced and other properties like Philmont, mortgaged to pay into the settlement fund. Examples and stories could go on and on... Public perception thanks to the lawyers painting the program as a haven for abusers lost some of it's luster and with smaller support services due to financial constraints membership and units (chartered partners) has suffered.

My understanding is that the National registration fee has been increasing as part of the settlement agreement. Local councils in years past were not permitted to add to the registration fees but as councils lost donors and income due to the National controversies with LGBTQ as they went after our donors and then the costs of the bankruptcy councils were allowed modest additions for things like accident/liability surcharges. In more recent years those restrictions have been loosened and councils that do a good job raising funds have added little or no increases to the National fee while councils that don't do so well have tacked on higher fees. Our council is one of the not so good fund raisers and every youth and adult has to pay. Cubs and Scouts pay $80 to National and $80 to local while adults who volunteer time, gas and money have to pay $60 to National and $60 local. If a council lacks the talent or opportunity to meet costs they pass it along. Camps, staff, office facility, insurances and program expenses need to be covered. Popcorn and FOS isn't getting the job done. You can look up recent 990 forms for your council if you want to get a picture of where the money goes.

Sounds good... our pack tended to gain at the higher grades as friends of our Cubs would join so it wasn't unusual to have as many or more Webelos and AOL's than Tigers or Wolves. At one point we split off a 30+ pack at a neighboring church. The pack still grew to over 100 cubs when we had to move on. Strong program that grew with the Cubs and keeping in the habit of program over the summer were two great keys. There were others like 100% Boy's (now Scout) Life and a mini 'High Adventure' for the AOL's in the spring.

My question would be how well do you retain cubs? My son's pack had basically 100% retention from Tigers (pre lions) to crossover. We only dropped families that physically moved from the area. Most packs membership is pyramid shaped with a lot of k and 1's a bit fewer grade 2 & 3 and fewer still at 4 & 5. I would consider 80% retention a decent job and 90%+ excellent. Maintaining size by recruiting a number each year to replace drops is like trying to fill up a bucket full of holes. Unless the new recruits are offsetting the crossovers there may be a quality issue which would include not having a summer program. Why give up the best months of the year for outdoor program and activities?