Ojoman

Perhaps if more volunteers understood the demands of the job coupled with low pay they might appreciate their DE more. Also, with the national decline in volunteerism (in all areas, not just BSA) DE's are finding themselve trying to do what used to be volunteer functions just to hold a district together. There is no question that district volunteer manpower should be a major concern. Of course very few units these days have adequate manpower even at that level.

Well, you know that working for the scouts as a unit serving exec means you have a hundred or more 'bosses' to answer to and a 50 hour work week seems like a vacation. A few years ago the entry level pay was still under $40k and I doubt that it is much above that today. Young people with college loans are hard pressed to cover their basic living expenses at that rate. There is high turnover in the profession and I even know of some folks with decades of experience that are considering getting out. Constant deadlines for events, goals and quotas that sometimes don't seem to make any sense and a lot of pressure from many directions. True that most Council Execs pull down 6 figures but that is determined by the board. Anyone can look up the 990 and get an idea of what shape their council is in. A really good unit serving professioinal is worth whatever it takes to keep him/her. Same for a Council Scout Exec. Sadly, too often the Peter Principle comes into play. I do agree that without really good professionals that the movement will not recover. The care and feeding of volunteers should be an entry level course for all professionals with refreshers every few years... Best practices include prompt returns of calls/emails, thank you's, periodic visits to units including courts of honor and blue and golds, supporting and staffing all district committees and being prepared to respond to requests for information and support. The new people coming into the profession need the support of the volunteers to help them learn the job and that includes the volunteers helping when they can for the DE to meet the goals and objectives set by and for him/her. If volunteers harbor a negative view of all professionals it can become almost impossible for a new DE to survive and they will leave for a job with more pay and fewer demands and there are actually quite a few out there. Thanks for sharing. God Bless...

Check out the Federal Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html school districts are required by federal statute to provide the same access to scouts that they allow for any other outside group. If they bring in outside agencies, distribute any sort of flyer for sports, community events or activities that involve any outside group they must do the same for scouts. Don't use this as a club... use it to help them control access to students. Tell them that there are only a couple of groups on the list that might ever ask for any accomodation so the district can limit access to only those that are on the list. I had a very nice chat with our superintendent and ended up having the school not only pass out fliers but also running a PSA that you can download from National and they displayed posters in the school and invited us to have a table at the family fun back to school night. We ended up with over 20 families interested.

Sounds like you have experienced a couple of professionals that lacked the temperament and/or training for their position. One of my volunteers told me that the reason she and so many others worked so dilligently for me and for Scouting was because I always said THANKS! That little word means so much to volunteers. I have seen it make the difference between them doubling their efforts or walking away. Volunteers do 'their thing' for many reasons but often it is because of a core belief that they are making a positive difference for kids and for their community. There are a lot of professionals that are similarly motivated but just because they have a positive motivation doesn't mean that they will be competent in the job. Knowledge, continued training and working with and for your volunteers is a hallmark of a quality professional at any level. Thanks for your input. I know alot of professionals do come to this site and I hope they read this posting and all the comments and take something positive away from it. God Bless!

Some very good points. Unit support/service is, of course, the crux of volunteer concerns. Good emphasis on quality Commissioner service. I think empowering the unit leadership to provide a high quality program experience is critical to unit health and membership retention. This is particularly true at the Cub level where a youths (and parents) interests need to be met from grade K to grade 5. I would hope that every professional at every level really looks at what is happening in direct support of units and the delivery of a high quality program experience.

My recent post on Scoutreach turned negative on professionals. Please note: that is not what this post is for. Background: I became an 'idealistic' district exec out of college back in 1971. I was fortunate to have outstanding mentors in my Scout exec and Field Director. 6 years later with 3 council experiences as a DE and SDE I left for 8 years but during that time I became a unit commissioner and then a Pack Committee Chairman. Upon returning to the profession I had a pretty good idea of what I expected and needed from my professional and translated that to how I served my volunteers. I think I ended up doing a pretty good job, not perfect but better than average in running my districts and meeting the needs of the volunteers. Feel free to speak to your experiences and if you have had an outstanding professional, let us know. You can talk about the shortcomings of service but not as an indictment of all professionals. There are a lot of truly dedicated people in the professional ranks. I'll be adding more comments as I see posts. Thanks

Actually, AOL includes 6 months in 5th grade which starts in June which is when the National Office rolls all the grade levels up to the next year. Tecnically a Webelos can get the Arrow of Light in December and cross to Scouts even if only 10 years old. Other times to join Scouts BSA are age 11 or 10 1/2 and graduated grade 5.

It is always best to 'go by the book' but reality often has very similarity to what the book says.... in my experience most chartered partners have little to do with 'their units' except to provide a meeting location and sign off on the charter. Usually the original IH and governing body that chartered the unit is long gone, sometimes for decades and the present folks 'inherited' the unit and seldom pay it much attention. Years ago I announced at roundtable that I (their new DE) would be making my IH visits and the volunteers should let me know if there was anything they wanted me to discuss. On Scoutmaster asked that I not inform the IH that they 'owned' the unit as the IH only thought that they met there and the SM liked it like that. True that the CR approves the adult applications but most CR's are often picked by the unit people instead of appointed by the IH... again, reality vs 'the book'. The committee has a big role in leadership selection and should reccomend the new leaders to the CR and IH. At the unit level the CC really has most of the authority since the committee is the business arm and the CM/DL's are the program arm of the unit. Good Luck...

I see you have been on the job now for half a year. Probably have figured out most of what you posted. I don’t know what council you are in but I’ll pass on a few ‘tips’ that you are free to use or disregard. First, change CM to MC for Master of Ceremonies… the CM runs the pack meetings and is ‘in charge’ at most events unless a a committee member or other parent is running that. Bring songs, cheers and FUN to the meetings. The CM and CC work closely to pull together the pack annual plan (calendar). The CM along with the den leaders are the program side (mostly) and the committee is the business side (mostly). Take advantage of roundtables and chat with other leaders and fish for new ideas and opportunities. Pow Wow and Univ of Scouting can also be helpful. You have a lot of experience to draw upon so you should know what to expect from the other leaders. Make sure your pack has a good relationship with a troop (perhaps two boy and girl) and prepare your Webelos leaders to cross over with their Cubs by getting them trained at the various Scoutmaster training opportunities that come up during their stint. Work with the committee chair to cultivate a positive relationship with your school district. There is a program called ‘Adopt a School’ where units take on projects for the school and PTA/PTO. Get to know your DE but your direct support in the district ought to be your Unit Commissioner. There is a lot more but this is a good start… Congratulations and KISMIF

If the leadership decides that the unit can't continue, you are correct in that the charter is to the 'sponsor'. However, the DE needs to follow the proceedures which include meeting with the IH and determining what funds and equipment remain and how they will be dispursed. Generally, funds remaining are to be used for youth programs but if the partner has no other programs then often the funds are held by the local council for a period if the unit is reorganized (seperated/rechartered). Equipment such as camping/flags/derby tracks and such also need to be assigned by the partner.

At a United Way agency show at a mall some years back I had a scouting display including handbooks and a gentleman came to me and said, 'You should be proud of what you do'... meaning promoting and running scouting programs. I told him I was but aske why he said that. He said, 'I was in Viet Nam and many of us made it home, not because of what the military taught us but because of training we had, things we learned in scouts." Needless to say, I was impressed and his message stayed with me.

You can contact your COR or IH (chartered organization rep or institutional head) and have a new Cmte Chair appointed. Any concerned parent can always get a group of concerned parents together to consider what needs to be done. All volunteers of a unit serve at the pleasure of the Institutioinal Head and the rep but it is also part of the committees duty to see that all leadership positions are filled. Hope this helps.

Steps to 'save' the troop or shut it down... First, Steps to save the troop. Many packs have weak programing and don't retain cubs through the 5 1/2 years from Tiger to AOL and if there isn't an attractive troop program to go to the AOL's may not cross over. Multiple things need to happen if your troop will survive. First, meet with the pack leadership and help them create a stimulating program that meets both the needs of the cubs and the parents. Cubs want fun, adventure and recognition... parents want their kids to grow in values and life skills. Help the pack build 3 levels of program events/activities (k/1, 2/3, 4/5) so the program changes as the cubs age to meet their ability and maturity levels. The troop can have the Webelos dens meet with the troop and assign scouts to assist as den chiefs. The Pack/Troop can build a recruitment plan for grades 4/5 and bring new cubs into those dens. Have a mini high adventure activity for the fifth grade AOL's. This gives you a solid source of new members. Additionally, the troop needs to recruit in the spring from the graduating grade 5 and the higher grades, especially 6 and 7 but have a hook, some event perhaps at the council camp with field sports for a day of adventure. Troops should not just sit on their butts and wait for the AOL crossovers. The troop needs to sell the scout prospects on all the positives (owner benefits and good qualities OB'S AND GQ'S of being a part of the troop. There are many including the things related to advancement and leadership training that can go on college applications and job resumes. There is more but this is a start. Shutting down a unit: Contact your DE as there is a report that is supposed to be filed that outlines what needs to be done. Don't give up the ship....

Answered in my last response but not really generic to this thread. This seems to have become a PRO SCOUTER BASHING instead of a concern for low income and minority youth. I would like to keep things on a more positive level. Recently, a s volunteer I created the Erie Canal Historic Trail award with little support from the council exec but some from his #2 guy. When the assistant scout exec has his duties plus running a multi county district because the SE does not have the funds or the interest to fill the vacancy then it's that up to your *** in gators thing. Council and District opps are dealing with manpower issues at all levels. Units/districts/council and sadly I don't see that getting any better. A truly great program for kids is in decline and I expect will remain so. Having said that, let's do what we can to still get it to the kids that need it most while it is still available.

SiouxRanger... you sound disillusioned but I'm betting that you have known some truly fine professionals. Like lawyers, a few bad apples give the rest a bad name. I know I worked with many outstanding members of the profession from all ranks. Most professionals other than Scout Execs or regional/national staff are poorly paid for the hours that they work. Those that stay in unit service (God Bless them) do so mostly because they believe in what they are doing and want to provide good service to their volunteers. IMHO the problem is at the top, both of councils and of national along with the boards at each level. The things that bring quality and retention (which is the only sure way to grow numbers) such as Pow Wow's, Institutes of Scouting, well attended Roundtables, in person training and solid district and council programing and program support are the things that council boards need to be concerned with along with seeing that the council is properly staffed and that means raising funds. Scout Execs generally come into a council without anyone there 'owing' them so they depend upon the board to open doors for them to find paths to generate the funding needed. I was a victim of that 'whistleblower' situation and had my pay cut, then was downsized out of the profession and blackballed for 5 years and ended up coming back for my final 5 years at entry level just to get the years for my pension with is minimal so I am one of those 'low income seniors'. Just pointing out that even though I have cause to be jaundiced about professionals, I know most are trying but the tide is against them. Too few volunteers, to large an area to work, too many pressures, goals and deadlines... You can't imagine the stress that was lifted when I retired. I will always love the program and the volunteers. The volunteer relationships were the biggest part of my compensation.

I hear you... Sounds like there are several serious issues impacting your pack. Size of the pack and dens, parent support, Retention/recruiting, and program content. I would suggest another round of recruiting at all grade levels (k-5) to get some new blood on board. Then a parents meeting to emphasize the importance of parental involvement. Parents can assist with events/activities without being registered but registration is a plus. Review your pack 12 month program plan. (yes, 12 months, summer activities should be the iceing on the cake). School/community relationships is critical and I hope your school district supports your pack. Have age appropriate events/activities so the experience changes as the cubs move up. Try to have 2 years worth of activity program for each level (k/1,2/3,4/5) so kids and parents can see what is coming up. Have a mini 'high adventure' for grade 5 AOL, perhaps earning an historic trail medal or some other achievement no available to the younger Cubs. Good Luck...

I think we can all agree that the BSA at every level needs to be able to pay its bills. That includes year round capital and program expenses including salaries and related costs. District professional staff do have to generate a part of that but there ought to be ample time spent on membership recruitment/retention, unit support and cultivation of district and council level volunteers. In my council in the last half dozen years we have gone from 7,000+ volunteers to less than 1,000. It is insane to think that with that kind of a loss that you can even maintain, let alone grow the program. There are a lot of problems/issues and no EZ or quick fixes.

In my 30 years as a professional and over 20 as a volunteer I always wanted to know the 'lowest' number of registered youth each year since kids stay on the charter until reregistation time. The low number is generally closer to an accurate count of active youths vs 'total youth served (registered) during the year. Districts always carry 'inactive' youths but it is insane to carry 'paper units and members'. Certainly in councils where the management beats professionals with threats of termination if they don't hit their numbers there is that temptation to keep your job or to try to get a promotion but I always felt that would come back to bite you in the butt. Still, I felt that putting 'fake' membership on the books was and is rare. Check out my post on Charter Reps if you want to know who can alert the board to such an issue. The council board should be well informed about the workings of the council and concerned about any area of service, funding and membership where there is a failure to perform properly. It would be great if everyone in every profession lived up to what we hope the program instills in our young people.

Jameson76: I would point out that those articles are about membership practices at a local council level and are two decades old. Personally I only know of one executive that 'fudged' membership and I reported it to the new Scout Exec and I got disciplined for it and the membership stayed on the books for a couple of years. I have to say that in 30 years in the profession that is the only case that I can claim to have direct knowledge of and it was Learning for Life, no scoutreach. Not to say that some individuals have not padded the books but it is a practice that will get you fired if it gets to the area or national level. However, I do also believe that if you want to dead end your career in the BSA just be a whistleblower... IMHO... based on my experience. (PS: my experience was a bit over 2 decades ago too).

I have always viewed the BSA structure as an upside down pyramid with the broad base of units and youth members on top and narrow bands of volunteers, districts, councils areas, and finally national all in support. I don't always feel that way these days. It varies from council to council and even district to district. Properly run councils and districts are doing a credible job in difficult times while others frankly are failing. While I feel my present council is failing I know with the right leadership it can turn around. I hope that happens and soon. The program is too valuable to families and youths to continue to watch it falter.

Our packs were mainly after school programs with 1 or 2 exceptions but our troops were more along 'traditional' lines meeting in community centers and churches. The kids in the troops loved getting out of the city and we tried to get them camping at least every other month. We had equipment that was shared by the troops. Our older kids used to assist the ranger at one of our camps. They loved Ranger Dennis and would tackle any job he needed done. Thanks for the feedback...

Back in the day, when I served on the Pittsburgh and later the Syracuse council staffs we had the Scoutreach program. I know that in Syracuse it has been over a decade since the council provided services to low income city youth. With the rise in adolescent suicide, crime, drug use, failure to complete school and other serious issues, I have to question if one, do we have a responsibility to get scouting to these neighborhoods and two, if so, how do we manage to meet that responsibility and obligation? In Syracuse, and I imagine in many other councils they don't have enough income to even maintain a minimal staff to support the remaining traditional scouting units let alone launch a Scoutreach program. I would imagine putting together an outreach that would include business, schools, churches, community centers and even law enforcement would be a great first step but where to go from there? Do we just let all of the social evils that exist in that population continue to destroy young lives or do we find a way to intervene? For 6 1/2 years I ran the Scoutreach program including running a troop myself and seeing that kids got to go camping, participate in district events and council cub and summer camps. I know it worked. A police officer at the center where my troop met told me some years later that 'none of my kids went through the system'. He thought it was important to tell me that because without scouting he pretty much knew that some of them would have gone down a dark path. Let me know what is happening in some of your councils to address this issue or thoughts on where councils/national need to go to meet the need or even if you think we ought to address this issue considering all the other hurdles the BSA has ahead of it.

Many local councils had to sell properties and dip deeply into endowments in order to kick in their share of the settlement. AS you pointed out, the settlement will have long lasting financial consequences for the BSA and structured fee increases was and is a part of that settlement. I believe that part of that projection was predicated on membership growth which seems ridiculous on the face of it since the BSA has not had traditional membership growth since the early/mid 1970's. I believe the loss of the LDS church was factored into things but the impact of covid and the bad press from all the ads that the law firms ran not to mention the NBC documentary special on abuse in the BSA are things that will make it very difficult to maintain, let alone grow the program. Additionally, local councils tacking on insurance and service fees will make growth even more unlikely. The issue extends from the top to the bottom and it ain't going away!

BSA should never be interpreted as BABY SITTERS OF AMERICA. Our pack inducted the parents with the Cubs and that sent the message that they were a part of the pack and important to the success of their child's experience. I actually knew a Cubmaster that would not accept a child unless the parents agreed to some degree of active involvement with the pack program. I don't advocate that but I do feel that without parent support and participation the program won't be as good as it could be and retention will suffer.

Retention, recruitment and overall growth and transition is not easy but can be accomplished. Your experience in recruiting and expanding the Webelos den shows that it can be done and actually should be happening all along the way. Packs that know their local resources and utilize them to enrich their programs and strive to make each level meet the needs and wants of both kids and parents retain and grow. The ultimate goal of a pack should be to retain and transition their cubs from grade k through 5 and on into Scouts BSA. BSA is and has been a FAMILY VALUES PROGRAM delivered while having fun and adventure. Thanks for your response.