campcrafter

Big E Thanks for the real world view and voice of reason. To all who replied thanks for confirming my views and letting me know there is a problem and not just my opinion. Since posting this morning I have talked to 2 other parents and they are ready to walk. My wife has been against moving troops because that is our church and the boys my son's age have almost all been together since Tigers and attend the same school(8 of them). However as I stated some of them may not have problem moving so it is getting to be a more realistic choice. I was den leader and cub master and asked to be SM but decided to take time off. My wife was pleased with that decision. So as much as I may want to - it probably would not be good for the marriage right now to start a new unit. I am willing to be an ASM and work with the boys as I can, but not be SM - yet? (OK I do have fantasies of being Lem Siddons ) In talking with one of the other parents today she mentioned two other units in the area close that are reputed to have good programs. So we will probably check them out. If this unit is to change it will have to be throught the CO. The CC dictates the show, the SM (he started in January) does not wish to upset CC. Yes I was trying to think of who could be CO of a new unit - hadn't thought of any yet. And the lack of funds thing - current troop has healthy treasury. Now for my naivete - I really think still things could improve right away with a few changes and instituting the methods. Rose colored glasses? Thanks to all for the advice and support - it really means a lot to me. will keep ya'll posted YIS, CC

MaScout What do you see asthe hardest 3-5 things about starting a new unit? cc

Fellow Scouters, Thanks again for letting me rant and for the moral support. I want to make sure it just isn't me and that there really is a problem here. No nothing has changed since April. I did meet with one of the other new parents and have since talked with some of the other parents and they too are not satisfied. The one I met with attended a "leaders" meeting and voiced some of the concerns we had. I was unable to attend that meeting. After last night's meeting which was for the most part a waste of time, another parent is writng a letter to the CC and SM to express her unhappiness. (Her older son who was a scout and is now in the Navy, is home on leave and attended last night's meeting with his little brother. He told his mom his take on the situation and so she is concerned.) I have made mention of things I see as not correct to leadership and been rebuffed. Nothing has gotten into any arguments - yet! I am sure I would have the support of CO for needed changes. However, I am thinking that the anguish and conflict over instituting changes would be harder on me than starting a new unit. As far as changing units there are some in town but I will have to check them out. Again though this is the unit sponsored by the church my family and many of these boys attend, so that emotional factor is there. There is supposed to be a "leaders" meeting in 2 weeks. This is where the adults plan the troop activities. I plan on attending and voicing my concerns a little more specifically. What I posted earlier today is more concrete than what I saw and felt in April. (I am wondering if I should write an email to the CC, SM and CO - I might be more calm and could think about my words more before the meeting - what do you think?) Will let you know how things progress. YIS cc

It HAS been quite civil of late - with lots of good stories from camp. A bit less than entertaining though - the Issues and Politics area has been rather quiet. Hey Ed what say we go over to I&P and start something I have strongly disagreed with Ed at times in the I&P area - but in truth I respect Ed immensely and believe his Scouting is on the mark. Actually when we stay away from "those" topics - I find we have much more in common with our fellow scouters here than differences and that for the most part our goal is the same - making scouting the great program it is. YIS, cc OH and in answer to your first question KFox - no it isn't. (This message has been edited by campcrafter)

Hi all I haven't post in a while but have been lurking some. Earlier this year I talked about the troop our Webelos crossed over to. It is the Brother Troop to our Pack, same CO. However I found that the way they did things not scouting. My list includes: Adult run TOTALLY - Supposedly there is an SPL - I have seen him once in 4 months. No PLC Unorganized, chaotic meetings - Older boys mostly hang out No real patrols - new boys elected a PL and chose a name that's as far as it got and the new boys (10 of them) are all in one patrol No uniforming No Scout spirit - the older boys 13-14 y.o. have attitude thing going Last night added to the list: For the Second Class requirement to participate in 5 separate activities(other than troop/patrol meetings) troop meetings at a park were allowed becasue it wasn't a meeting at the church. And so were Courts of Honor because it wasn't a regular troop meeting. I discovered that they allow parents to sign off on requirements for TF, 2nd and 1st Class because a lot of the requirements "should be done on campouts and we don't camp every month like some troops." ??? A Tenderfoot SM conference and Board of Review were conducted together by ONE ASM. Here's the kicker - A scout was ready for his Life Scout Board of Review. It was conducted during the meeting time. This scout was not in uniform and the BOR was conducted by ONE Committee Member. I was also dismayed to learn that his Life Service requirement was met in part by his participating in the Webelos cross over - the entire four hours of the B&G which included eating lunch were counted as service. I have tried to bring up points about how this is not correct and told that's how we do it. I had talk early on with SM and of course he was offended. Does not surprise one that they have a high percentage of scouts given Eagle. Would you Look for new troop Try longer to make change (this is troop sponsored by church we attend) Start new troop? Thanks for letting me rant CC

Big E Congrats to OJ! How proud we know you are! Thnaks for all your sharing here on the forum. CC

Thanks Trev! I told my son the past few days we would have to mark the moment 7:26 CDT. I even thought of it in the shopwer this morning. But of course getting ready and getting out the door to get him to summer school and me to work - we missed it. Oh Well guess we try for the Autumnal Equinox! Happy Solstice to All and a safe summer Scouting! CC

Thanks Trev I googled Tyvek rainwear and rain suit and really didn't come up wuth anything though. Is it just Tyvek coveralls you use or what? Where did you get it? thanks cc

Has anybody used Frogg Toggs rainwear. How do they stand up wear and tear wise? Recommend for camping or not? Thanks CC

Thanks NJ Yes contrary to what many of the Xtian persuasion believe - the only requirement National obviously really cares about is that you not denie the exisitance of some higher POWER - not even necessarily a BEING. So those of us who think that God does not interfer in the day to day lives of individual but is the ultimate source of energy are valid memebers. I just thought the way he worded it was poor. Backyard would definitely have been a better word choice than Japan. And the phrase there must be hundreds of Gods out there should surely raise eyebrows in the RCC and LDS. pax, CC

Seton's Book of Woodcraft and Indian Lore (A 1920 something edition I got off ebay in a set along with Two Little Savages (which every Scouter should read) Rolf in the Woods and a few others) Philosophy Of Humanism - Corliss Lamont (Which every Christain should read if they really care to know what secular humanism is) Have great Summer and Be safe CC

Turing to God in the scout oath, does one have to believe in a Christian God to be a Boy Scout? There must be hundreds of Gods out there. God in the oath referrs to a supreme being of some sort it's a moral or ethical or spiritual orientation. We don't care if it's Mohammad or Buddha or a rock in Japan. We ask the kids to take the Scout oath and what they do on their own time is up to them. Did he really say that?! Hundred of gods out there Supreme being of SOME SORT? Rock in Japan - what the ... Sounds to me like the new Prez doesn't have a very definite faith himself. At least he isn't a bible thumper. Maybe the BSA isn't on the evangelical crusade many think it is. However the comment about a rock in Japan. Is anyone here of Japanese heritage? What is he talking about? Are you offended? Doesn't seem a very intelligent thing to say. Derogatory in fact. Alos I would like to see the approved list fof the hundreds of gods out there!

Bobanon The PM should go through forum to your email address you signed up with. Too often it does not work. Could you PM me at campcrafter@yahoo.com? thanks CC

Considering some of the discussions here the past year regarding inflated membership numbers, maybe some councils have straightened up and these numbers are now more Trustworthy. cc

BobAnon Did you receive my PM throught the forum? campcrafter

Missouri Synod no doubt pax, cc

JnKC Is that you are a consevative and a litugical xtian OR that you a conservative christian and a liturgical christian? What type of liturgy? How conservative ? Latin Mass? cc

Acco That is not the same. You are not the child's parent, your are volunteer helper. Just as school should notify the parent of misbehavior, the parent need not notify the school. (of course certain behavior disorders would require consultation between parent and school/day care/ scouts/etc) But I am talking about specific incidences. No I do not think we need to tell the parent Joe took a stick and waved it around and he knows better and we told him not to do that and he quit. But if Joe waved the stick around in defiance after being told twice not to do it - then I would talk to the parent. cc

Big E, Accent? What accent? I never noticed you had an accent:) Cheers, cc

OK - I said I usually don't participate in these conversations - but this time it does seem to be a bit more civil and intelligent, no? avow One entry found for avow. Main Entry: avow Pronunciation: &-'vau Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French avouer, from Latin advocare 1 : to declare assuredly 2 : to declare openly, bluntly, and without shame synonym see ACKNOWLEDGE, ASSERT - avower /-'vau(-&)r/ noun Based on this definition a "closet" homosexual should be acceptable to the BSA. Regarding Dan and Trev's discussion on being in the "closet". Dan mentioned he helps people overcome the problems that rise from suppressing thing about ourselves. I think I would much rather have as leaders people who were openly gay and led a balanced life than the "closet" child molester, who probably isn't by definition homosexual. ( of course they all are - no openly "avowed" molesters I have heard of, except maybe after they are caught and imprisoned) Dan, please let me know I am off track here. Ed - can you put extra maple syruop and whipped cream on mine please? Congrats on your milestone post pax, cc

WOW - lets talk about this some more! I never tire of this topic Actually I seldom read these and never join. However I do have one question this time - Has this topic ever come up in your daily scouting life in your unit? It hasn't for me - not even been discussed in any Scout group I was involved in. May come up now that my den has crossed over to Boy Socuts - don't know. Thanks Ed - I'll have some Blue Bell Dutch Chocolate , please. See ya'll in another thread! CC

Dan- regarding your first post, the husband and wife's response were very poor. Sounds like they have "issues". Crew21 - that is sad that you can't hug the girl. I have not seen the Venturing YP video and I am not saying you are any way wrong - I am just saying it is sad our society has gotten to this point. I still agree with all you have said and you have done a great job explaining how you handle these matters - it has been very helpful. Thanks CC

I second all that. CC

Being as I know most of my boys' parents from church and school, I still always announce myself on the phone by first and last name. If I do not know the parents well or if it is a sibling, I always add "from Scouts" or something like that. Right or wrong as leaders of youth in today's society, it has fallen to us to make others comfortable with who we are and why we wish to talk to their child. Crew21 - while at first I thought your idea a bit much, on second thought it makes sense and I will adopt it. Kind of like 2 deep leadership for the internet. Youth Protection is also Leader Protection. YIS, cc

I made this up out of parts of various prayers from The ECUSA Book of Common Prayer. Please change/improve as you see fit. pax, CC O Great Creator, You have blessed us with the joy and care of this camp and these Scouts. Bless our camp that it may be a lively center for sound learning, new discovery, and the pursuit of wisdom. Grant those who lead and teach calm strength and patient wisdom so that those who learn may find sound learning and pure manners. Save our camp from violence, discord, and confusion; from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Preserve all who travel, surround them with your loving care; protect them from every danger; and bring them in safety to their journeys end. Amen (This message has been edited by campcrafter)