campcrafter

Here is a vintage jac-shirt http://www.vintagetrends.com/search/itemdetails.asp?YZ=9A95A19D878792&RN=81&TR=85&SS=cpo& cc

wow. This fellow's raving. . . Which one Mr. Boyce - the writer of the topic article or BadenP? Maybe both?

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What happened to YANN the thread originator? Or is Yann really Merlyn? Or maybe Ed? Or someone who likes to watch them bicker? cc

Beavah That is why church and state MUST be separate and the importance of the right to worship or not worship as one desires. That the state should either impose or outlaw religion only leads to disaster.

Acco wrote... ask yourself these questions. Can one be moral if one does not believe in a God or Gods? ----------- OF COURSE ONE CAN. The idea of ones inability to be moral without belief in a god is preposterous and one I hope you weren't proposing, though I know it is an argument many religous promote. cc

JoeBob wrote: But I don't want to lose the other freedoms inherent in Christianity. Which freedoms do regard as "inherent in Christianity."? I think the histories of Puritans, Church of Rome, Calvinists etc and the idea of inhernet freedoms due to Christianity would make for interesting discussion. Too often I think those who regard America as a Christian nation confuse the freedoms that were given to us by our secular constitution and government as being somehow Christian. England was a Christian nation and the founding fathers revolted. They should not have done so if they were "good" Christians and believed that George was king by divine right.

Narraticong wrote: the founding documents leading up to it most certainly leave a clear trail. I admit to being ignorant regarding a lot of my American History. If you would please give me the titles of some of the documents you refer to that I might look them up. Thanks cc

Narraticong wrote: On the other hand, as an American, I believe every citizen has a right to believe in any god, or no god, whatsoever. Without a doubt, the Constituion makes it one of our God given rights (figure that one out). What's to figure out? There is a doubt - The Constitution gives us the right as citizens. God has nothing to do with it. God is not mentioned in the Constitution. Narraticong wrote: It might be more fitting to strongly encourage individual participation in worship of the Scouts own choice, made with his family. Encourage a quiet time on outings when those of like belief may choose to worship together as a small group. A time when individuals can partake in individual worship time, commune with nature, or just take a nap. I fully agree with you. YIS cc(This message has been edited by campcrafter)(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

Brothers, A Scout is Friendly. A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own. A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. A Scout is Kind. A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing. A Scout is Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

"Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise...." HA - I had forgotten about that skit! cc

I am sure that a lot of folks think I'm a whackjob! I do see a bit of conservative trend in some folks but they aren't the majority of those in the pews. I think Ratzinger was elected as honor of his servie to JP-II and the church and that due to his age would be a transitional pope after the long term of his predecessor. (But of course that's what they thought about John XXIII and look what he did!) Really only time will tell. YIS campcrafter

It is not a "Catholic Thang", as you have so colorfully put it; it's a whackjob thing. Agreed Didn't mean to offend only that in the Catholic Church (to which I belong) as far as I know are there these so-called true believers who think Vatican II was heresy and wouldn't mind bringing back the Inquisition. I don't know that other denominations have these type nuts in them. In those they just break off to start their own denomination?. Hopefully I haven't dug myself in deeper here! (It won't let me edit my previous post) YIS cc

It's a Catholic Thang! The first few lines of his "article" should give a clue. It is a special blessing for me to be a Catholic apologist and to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whenever I am confronted with errors against the Faith, I do my best to expose these errors for the salvation of souls according to the gifts that God has given me. It was by Gods providence that I discovered a very dangerous movement that is attacking the Faith and the Church. He is a self important religious fanatic who is concerned more about rules and dogma of the latin church of the past than he is about his fellowman - contrary to what he will tell you. I've met his type and have a few in the parish I belong to. And if you look at the site the article is on: Catholic Apologetics Intl, you see they are part of the group who think they know better than Rome itself. Not to worry about the attack on OA, they also have the righteousness attack the USCCB - US Conference of Catholic Bishops, basically the governing body of the church in the US. My eldest brother called be the other day asking if I had a certain lodge flap since he is volunteering again in the lodge of the council he now lives in. Oh and he is a permanent deacon employeed by the church. Salza and his ilk would call him a heretic.

It seems ironic that they developed Urban scouting since one of B-P reasons for starting the program was to help boys get a break from smog ridden cities such as London. BSA just shouldn't have messed with the Methods. cc