SiouxRanger

Amen. (Me not one "prior to" but certainly after they aged out.)

Is the corollary that "If the CO approves the adult leader, they can participate in all unit activities?" Or can/should the CO approve an adult leader for only certain activities? "You can serve on Boards of Review, but not go on campouts." (How finely can one mince the onion?)

I regret that I have one Upvote to give for this post.

That is precisely the point. If you are registered, then you have had/done both. Not registered, may YPT but unlikely background check. Registration is a a quick and easy way top determine compliance.

So, in your mind, an adult male, registered leader, 4 Eagle Scout sons, all of whom aged out, wants to go on a campout. What is your rule?

So, as I read this, all scouts who have met the OA qualifications are put on the ballot, and stand for election. The SM does not exercise the SM's discretion to exclude from the ballot a scout that the SM believes should not be elected. The doomed scout's name appears on the ballot and the doomed scout knows he was on the ballot. The doomed scout does not know he is doomed. The scout electorate believes the doomed scout to be a viable candidate because he is on the ballot, and perhaps deems him worthy and elects him to the OA, not knowing that their vote won't count. And what is the color of the Truth in presenting a ballot to an electorate when the "fix is in?" After the doomed scout is elected, he is told that he was not elected. (But he was.) And what is the color of the Truth in telling a scout he was not elected when he really was elected? Or maybe the SM has the backbone to tell the doomed scout that he was elected, but that the SM is denying him membership in the OA. And how is that message delivered? Such that the Scout has a path forward to qualify next year?. And how does the scout reconcile that his fellow scouts thought he was worthy, but the SM is the roadblock?

Does the Cub Scout have any service time in a Webelos den with the prior Pack before it folded? Maybe he could add that to Webelos den activity with your Pack.

I live East of the Mississippi. In my state, I know of no "local tribes" which have a presence here any longer. I've lived here for more than 60 years. The only tribes claiming their origin in my state are far away. They have no presence here. Occasionally, a representative of a tribe will appear to speak to some issue. Maybe once a decade. And even at that, I have little sense or knowledge of their removal from my state, the depth of their connection to my state. How does one even determine which tribes occupied their area, and their current representatives? And, "honor." So, if an OA lodge's ceremony script is respectful of not only Native Americans, but people generally, is that OK? The Lenni Lenape script of my local OA Lodge is inspiring to me, a non-Native American.

And supporters of Survivors are always checking. Truly said, "Silence is not absence." One eye is always open… No matter how long the trail, or how high the passes, or how heavy the pack, we will be there.

I am struggling to understand the concept of "cultural appropriation" and continue my studies… But in the meantime, does an OA Lodge have some obligation to either obtain approval or conform to the Native American Personna of a tribe LOCAL to the Lodge's location? That is, can an OA Lodge in Minnesota adopt a Seminole personna? In my 50+ years of attending OA tap-out ceremonies in my Council, the ceremony always referenced the Lenni Lenape, which are from the upper Northeast. So, are all OA Lodges to conform to the regalia of the Lenni Lenape? Thanks.

I do dislike auto correct. What I typed was "Are these Order of the Arrow members or KKK Folks?" (Not "of.") Maybe that makes no difference to InquisitiveScouter. But, I was NOT intending to equate the OA with the KKK. I just can't make sense of the picture. I must be missing something.

I find this photo to be unsettling. Are these Order of the Arrow members of the KKK folks? I just can't tell.

Just increase the level of "amenities" ordeal candidates can take to reduce the adverse effect of weather elements. An 8' x 10 ' piece of plastic tarp should do the job. And 4-6 lengths of para-cord to pitch it.

That is the CORE of it, and, for me, changed my life.

So, just what are folks consider things to be "cultural appropriation?" And just what are the or harmful or damaging effects of that "cultural appropriation?" Thanks.

I've never been too involved with the OA, though an Ordeal member. My Troop was small, there were few of us in the OA, and fewer yet were interested in attending OA activities. Somehow, time just did not allow. My huge involvement in Scouting otherwise just cast OA to the shadows. That being said, I do understand that the OA is a huge factor spurring the involvement in Scouting for many who pass from youth to adults. So that I can understand you better, with respect to your post, from whom were you expecting announcements regarding regalia? The 24 month window, is that more or less than previously, and does extending or shortening it have some effect on the OA, and what effect? The Ordeal Overnight-what are the arguments for and against eliminating it? (I did the overnight, and thought it was great. I bought into the whole Ordeal Weekend and live it to this day.) Thanks.

This Christmas Day, Peace On Earth. And be blessed to find Peace in your soul.

"Get lost together?" Hopefully, you'll have a sticky tag with all the pronouns you prefer for your body bag. And so, at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, a cocky boatman asked me what I'd do if I were lost in the Grand Canyon? "I'd set a huge fire. It would be seen. Rescue folks would arrive." "You can't do that. This this is the GRAND CANYON!"

And I love the Robert Frost quote. Thanks so much.

At the rate things are trending, we'll have: Citizenship in the Solar System Citizenship in the Galaxy Citizenship in the Universe Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned. I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic. Less and less experience. Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain. I am a master at it. OK, not a master, GENIUS. I am really good at building fires. Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky. (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting. And that is how it is. Experience.

I just find this thread so sad. Us unpaid volunteers are treated so poorly.

At least is my standard. And it is a cruel standard. But is how it has to be.

Most of us folks have not had any training on such conflict situations. So, we are all left to invent a response. (And do these issues not commonly arise and no protocol to deal with them?) "And why would that be?" --Downtown Abbey's Carson. Be Prepared. "Be Prepared" = If you are EVER caught off-guard, it is your fault. Period. (You have to see NOW, Tomorrow, the day after, next week, next month…Forever.) That is the standard of "Be Prepared."

A legal analogy, for what it is worth, in a lawsuit, once a given judge has made a substantive ruling in the case, all the parties are stuck with that judge, unless later removed "for cause." The rule prevents "forum shopping," that is, skipping from judge to judge until you get one who issues a more favorable ruling. You became the judge on this scout's case, having made a "ruling" on the merits of his advancement, And it is dishonest of the Scout to approach another adult leader after having discussed matters with you and you having established the course forward for his advancement. I'd discuss it with the other adult leader to determine whether the scout explained your comments and requirements to the other adult leader, or simply made no mention of the scout's conference with you. If the adult leader was made aware of the scout's conference with you and your requirements, how did that other adult leader deal with them (if at all)? Did the adult leader undermine your position by giving the scout a "pass?" Perhaps the other adult was "duped" by the scout. Hmmmm. Trustworthy. In my troop, there is a sheet where notes of conferences with scouts are recorded and those notes are available for the adults conducting the next conference. If such was available regarding this scout did the other adult volunteer ignore it? Where is the other adult's notes? Those notes should address your notes/concerns. No adult volunteer should take it upon themselves to countermand the work of another volunteer with respect to the advancement of a scout. A scout rewarded for this behavior, if he did not fully inform the other adult, will learn little from the program or lessons of negative value. Other than the damage done to a scout who games the system, self-inflicted, I am not too concerned about it, as the scout has deluded and damaged him/her self. If the scout is counseled and advised of his/her shortcomings and does not acknowledge the problem, little more can be done, realistically. Some youth and adults will not embrace the principles of Scouting regardless of discussion, opportunities, counseling, etc. And so be it. The "lead a horse to water" issue. Nearly 50 years ago, a box of Scout Mirrors would arrive at Philmont for the Ranger Staff (at least). On the back of each was the Dale Wimbrow poem, "The Man In The Glass." (Sometimes called "The Man In The Mirror." or, "The Guy In The Glass." ) I still have mine. (Maybe several.) I think that they were sent by a professional scouter out of Milwaukee. (And if anyone has a name, I'd be appreciative.) So, the text of the poem is (and, I've corrected spelling, and changed the vernacular-sorry, had to do; and, well, changed guy and fella.): The Guy in the Glass When you get what you want in your struggle for self, And the world makes you King for a day, Then go to the mirror and look at yourself, And see what that man has to say. For it isn’t your Father, or Mother, or Wife, Who judgment upon you must pass. The man whose verdict counts most in your life Is the man staring back from the glass. He’s the man to please, never mind all the rest, For he’s with you clear up to the end, And you’ve passed your most dangerous, difficult test If the man in the glass is your friend. You may be like Jack Horner and “chisel” a plum, And think you’re a wonderful guy, But the man in the glass says you’re only a bum If you can’t look him straight in the eye. You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years, And get pats on the back as you pass, But your final reward will be heartaches and tears If you’ve cheated the man in the glass. So, sadly, the scout who cheats the system will probably not know the consequences of their action until mid-life.

Being from a very small organization and even at that, "leader" is better that "Boss." Long ago, I learned that lesson-as an SPL I think. Even just this day is the lesson's principle brought home to me, awaiting documents I requested and was told that they would be emailed to me several days ago, which never arrived, in following up on my request for those documents… I sent an email in which I could have said: "You told me you that would forward those documents to me and they have not arrived…so where have things fallen down?" (Accusatory and puts the recipient on the defensive Instead I called, and said, "You were going to 'look into' getting me some documents…" Both present the same message but in a manner that is a non-threatening to the person responsible. And the sought documents arrived. The lesson is, Threaten and folks will "clam-down" and resist; Commiserate with their work-load and they will attend to the issue. And such is "Leadership" in my world.