SiouxRanger

Any recommendations regarding tracking troop finances? Scout accounts, payments for activities, etc., troop checks written and deposits made? Donations, and fundraisers? Thanks. (Not concerned with any other aspects of the software.

I want to thank all who have posted about resources regarding Native American perception of and issues with non Native American "cultural appropriation" of Native American culture. I am overwhelmed with other matters at the moment, and I feel that this is a rather large area of inquiry, and as I want to understand it and not do it a disservice with a cursory analysis, I will attend to it in detail when I can devote the time I think it will take. The resources posted will be of immense help to me and others interested in understanding this topic.

Sounds like the 12 year old who owns the basketball demanding an extra point or two to win or will take his ball home. An SE who shut down the OA would enjoy substantial financial backlash. Just last week, at a council level committee meeting, it was pointed out that unit participation at the council's summer camp from virtually every unit in a certain district was nearly zero-about 3 to 4%. The reason? That district used to be a council, but was merged out of existence. And the merger was resented. They lost their beloved camps. More than 45 years ago. A long shadow. And, holding the power to take $90,000 earned or donated for certain OA purposes does not justify the taking of it for other purposes. Some would call that fraud. "Buy an OA patch-proceeds pay for sashes for Ordeal Candidates." (Or whatever.) "Ooops-the SE needed a new laptop--sorry, no free sashes." (Or whatever.) I used to give $500 a year, but once I figured out how the money was being handled/mishandled, I quit--25 years ago. Small potatoes, but Ive seen camporees where the pros cut back the (budgeted) patch order by half, by about $150, and were short half the patches because the budgeted attendance was met. So, $150 was important to the pros then. It is a sad state of affairs. I don't understand why the pros can't seem recognize the immeasurable goodwill embodied in the faithful volunteers and figure out how to capitalize on it. But that goodwill is frittered away, time and again. It may be that many volunteers have lost their confidence in the professional administration of the program and now will not trust a new administration. The shadow is LONG. I know many volunteers that won't contribute a penny, but donate tons of time. I think largely on the sentiment of, "The council can't afford to pay me to do this work, so I'll donate my time and that will be my contribution." Another group of volunteers learn of a camp need, and purchase the needed item and has it delivered to camp. They KNOW that their money is going for a known need and not likely to be diverted. My council, in my 25 year window, has gone from a very robust FOS model supplemented by a United Way model, to an "event model," that is, Distinguished Citizen dinners, and golf and sporting clays events. FOS is nearly totally defunct in my council. How successful is the change of funding models? In the last 25 years, my council's gross revenue has dropped by 20%, and the number of registered scouts-perhaps by 50%. Perhaps the SE quoted (paraphrased) above was thinking of Oppenheimer's quote upon the detonation of the first nuclear device from the Bhagavad Gita: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

I am so terribly late to this discussion. As a child, we surfaced collected Native American stone artifacts from local farm fields. (With permission.) My father instructed us on the significance of the peoples who had gone before. We never collected bone artifacts, only stone ones. (All in the plow zone.) And so, I learned to understand and respect that unknown to me society of Native Americans. What effort it took to survive in the Midwest, and even more so in the High Plains. I have monumental respect for the Native American societies. And their survival knowledge. And not mere survival, they thrived. And there is this turmoil over "cultural appropriation." I have much to learn about this, and so working my way. But, in my experience, I have not seen any depiction of Native American culture that was disrespectful of Native Americans. And maybe there is such on the toxic web. Many Universities, Colleges, High Schools, etc, in years past, have adopted Native American symbols as their school's mascots. I do not know of a single school that has adopted a Native American mascot for the purpose of ridiculing the mascot. As near as I can tell, adopting a Native American symbol/icon, is a supreme showing of respect. But, I am not a Native American. And Native Americans I invite you o post, I do not yet understand Native American objections to

BSA is in the entertainment business, pure and simple. Sort of like Disney. No fun, no one pays attention and no one comes back. Certainly as far the scouts are concerned. Excitement, challenges, new ideas, new experiences. Time spent with friends. Growth as a person. But all occurs in the tiniest of increments. But "fun." It has to be. "EDGE" Method has a significant "do" element. That is the overlay. The underlay is the Scouting program the adults facilitate: real life skills (life-saving at times), principles of living decently and responsibly, moral principles (Scout Law), being helpful, seeing beyond oneself and one's selfish wants (they aren't needs, really), that by making a difference for others one enhances oneself. At 69, I still stand amazed at the number of times I have read of someone stating in the middle of their career life that they were influenced to their career field because of something they experienced in their youth. Bingo! And that is why Scouting is so important: That Youth (probably all of them) who are adrift in their chaotic thoughts of self (who am I?, what is life?, work?, a job, a career?…) get exposed to all sorts of fields of study, jobs, etc. In Scouting they get exposed to INTERESTING THINGS. And, through Scouting a full smorgasoard of career (interest) fields are laid before them. And they have a better chance of choosing a career aligned with their interests. And THAT why I participate as I do.

And there are those folks, also. And we thank them. Even a mere $100 covers the shortfall of a campout or two.

So, time and again, I remind folks, "So we've found another jerk/slug/etc." The world is full of them. Just move on. It is very aggravating that some folks abuse the process, perhaps feign ignorance of the significance of their actions, or are just plain stupid. Our troop had a senior adult leader who'd attend the fundraising dinner, bring his 3 parents/inlaws, he and his wife and 5 kids and pay $24 for a family ticket. (10 folks eating for $24). Seriously? Yep. Absolutely no sense that his in-laws were not really the intended beneficiaries of the "family ticket" concept. Same guy would submit for reimbursement the 10 stamps he purchased to send troop snail mail. So, $5.00. (And so how I wish my monthly time commitment per month were less than $5,000-seriously. And for any mid or top level executives, 20 hours a month is far larger than $5,000.) And so we just bear up, and move on. Such folks can be moved to unit minimalist responsibility positions. On the other hand, a frank discussion with the "offending" adult, might trigger a favorable response. "Ya'know, Tom, we do fund the Blue & Gold with pack dues, and your family hasn't paid any Pack dues since…" (Well, the last glaciation episode about 14,000 years ago…) There are gentle ways to make a point.

Seems strange to have a good product simply to remove it and cut off a convenient training vehicle, available anytime. Why is so much National does simply inexplicable?

ILST = Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops.

When I see the word “vet” I think of a process, “vetting.” Such as a checklist of sources to consult, documents to gather (where would a mere COR obtain pertinent records?), a review the application and other pertinent records, questions to ask, perhaps other unit leaders to be consulted if issues arise. Then, make a record, for the applicant’s file, so as to be able to document the steps taken and the care shown in making the decision to accept an applicant as a unit leader, or at least as a registered adult. And if an adverse decision is made, is the applicant entitled to a hearing of some sort? Then, being in the nature of a personnel file, they need to be secured, and under “eyes only” access. And when the COR moves on, the files need to be transitioned their successor. How long are the files to be kept? In some states with lenient statutes of limitation, perhaps decades. I have never heard word one from any scouters in my decades of being involved in scouting at many levels of a formal vetting process. Do any units conduct a formal vetting process? And what do they do routinely? And what do they do if an issue arises? Consult with other unit leaders? Seek additional information? Meet with the applicant and discuss the issue? Most adult leader applicants are parents of scouts who attend our sponsoring school. They are seen at sports events and scouting events, school activities, may serve as coaches, attend church, etc. They may have two or three children who have followed one another into the program. They are seen and have interacted with the COR and other unit adults anywhere from 1 to 10 years. They are largely known by reputation. A few adults do fall into the class of being a parent of a first grader, their first child in school. Little may be known about their reputation. And if they are a recent move to the school district, there has been little chance to develop a reputation. The council’s criminal background check is the principal vetting that is done. The remaining class of adult leaders are those whose children have aged out and they continue on. Their reputations have been built over decades with the unit. I include grandparents of scouts also in this class. My concern is that National, by way of the COR’s certificate on the Adult Application, attempts to push the responsibility for vetting adults onto the Chartering Organization and its COR, both having little effective way to do a proper job of it. And as we have seen in the bankruptcy, Chartering Organizations are defending against millions of dollars of claims, and arguably, largely because of the Chartering Organizations’ responsibility for vetting adult leaders. I don’t recall a direct claim against a Chartering Organization Representative, the individual, but it is a logical extension of the principle, as the COR did sign and approve the adult’s application.

It would be helpful if you could list those risks.

Give the child credit and adjust (fudge all other numbers).

You may well be right, but then the issue becomes: "Not vetted by CO/COR to camp with unit, but 'vetted just enough' by Council to be an MBC." So, seems to me that MBC's come in several varieties, in approximate descending order of "vettedness" to my way of thinking: 1. An MBC who is also currently a unit adult leader counseling only scouts from that unit. Currently, both CO/COR vetted by the scout's unit and Council vetted as an MBC. 2. An MBC who is also currently a unit adult leader counseling scouts from other units. Currently, both CO/COR vetted by the other unit and Council vetted as an MBC. 3. An MBC affiliated with a specific unit in some fashion, perhaps a former unit leader, now serving only as a MBC for that prior unit. Previously vetted by the Unit CO/COR, but now only vetted by the Council. This MBC is a known quantity to the scout's unit's adult leadership. 4. Same as #3, but this MBC is counseling scouts from units that the MBC has never been affiliated with. This MBC has been vetted by some other CO/COR once upon a time, but not the CO/COR for the unit of the scout being counseled. 5. An MBC that is not affiliated with any unit in any way. This MBC may have been previously affiliated with a unit so long ago that the connection has been lost (they are now "unknown" to any current unit leadership), or never affiliated with any unit ever. The "vettedness" of this class of MBC relies solely on the Council's judgment. And to what depth does the Council actually conduct any inquiry? Our unit, in my experience, has never formally "vetted" anyone. If an issue with respect to some adult is noticed, the leadership generally discusses it and formulates a plan to address it. No abuse related issues have ever arisen, but issues of physical or mental capacity have arisen, such as diminished driving capacity, increased likelihood of a medical event when camping remotely, and lack of situational awareness to respond to an emergency when camping.

Please understand that my brain has been for sale on eBay for some years, without sale, but is harder than most road bricks. And DVOA? Who would they be? The "Department of Volunteer Orangutang Advocates?" I am just a slow-minded nobody. And just so content to be slow-minded, and a nobody. BUT, when somebody seeks to communicate to another, it is somebody's responsibility to actually COMMUNICATE to the others. And to communicate such that the intended recipient of the communication can understand it. So, "DVOA," Je, ne comprend pas.

And thereby the Council was killed. I quit giving to Friends of Scouting when my council executive was paid more than 4 times my income. Just a simple lawyer, I am, huge liability if I get it wrong. BSA Council executives are grossly overpaid. My local council executive gets paid nearly what my child gets paid as an attending radiologist. (MD). My child gets it wrong, patient dies. Council Executive gets it wrong-well staff gets it wrong-an extra three minute wait for a porta-potty. My current Council Executive manages a staff of 9± (down from 27 staff) and is paid about $300,000. About what the prior Council Executive was paid managing a staff of 27±. Hmmm.? I find it difficult to subsidize the income of someone whose income exceeds mine and whose performance is less than mine. Someone I'd never hire. (And if anything goes bad, the lawyer gets hammered first for the failure, no matter whose fault it is. Lawyer = educated = most educated = surely the most wrong.)

Two unimportant anecdotes (but entertaining and IMPORTANT, scoutily): 1. I bought a canoe once, tied it onto my van. The Dad (seller) nodded to his son to look under the van to check out my knots-son was an Eagle. (Me-Eagle) Dad did not think I saw Dad's direction to son, or understand its meaning. (Was a mere look-Dad to son-eyes moved toward my knot work-subtle) Son looked, son subtly nodded to Dad: "OK." Take aways: Dad was concerned that I would adequately secure the canoe. Son was trusted by Dad to understand the meaning of a few eye movements, AND trusting that son KNEW HIS KNOTS to such a degree that if son approved my work, Dad was satisfied I was good to go, even though Dad did not personally inspect the knots. Isn't this just how it is supposed to be? I understood the whole situation as it happened. I still have that canoe, and plan to offer it back to the Dad at the same price I paid for it, 25 years ago. (Worth 3 times now what I paid, but there are perks dealing with Eagles.) 2. At a troop meeting, in uniform, I had to walk across the grade school campus to the Rectory for something or another. As I walked across the playground/parking lot, I heard some guy hollering at his wife, he was in his garage just across the street. "I CAN'T TIE A KNOT." (Well, that was curious to me being pretty knot-tying capable.) Then, "I need a Boy Scout!!!" (OK, THAT has my attention, and in full uniform and fully visible, I smiled, turning toward his garage.) Then, "THERE'S A SCOUT!" (referring to me-that was unexpected, but "Yeah" I AM a scout and proud of it). I was never so proud (even at 60). I tied his knots. These are two of my highlight moments that I experienced as an adult leader. There are many precious others. But they don't happen daily, nor perhaps even yearly. Sometimes two in a day. They are the moments when an adult sees a scout accomplish that which the SCOUT sees as unaccomplishable. Like a terrified scout who rappels for the first time, or who passes a flooded canoe over another canoe and then re-enters the rescued canoe. (These both brought me to tears as I watched, helplessly but hopefully. And the scout, crying also with me, made it happen.) Many adults worked tirelessly, in the nameless shadows of the Program to make Scouting available to me. And as my sons, all Eagles, are out of the program by many years, I soldier on. In tribute to those who made the Program available to me, I continue on to make it available to my current troop. And Scouting Changed My Life.

For us fossils, Discord is a what? What are the perceived strengths and dangers? Thanks!

I have wondered why ALL the councils (and maybe there were a few which did not, and anyone who knows, please post) got on board to contribute in the amounts determined by National to the Settlement Fund though being, in the words of National, "independent not for profits" from National and not under National's control. My council has virtually no exposure to abuse claims, as near as I can tell (lawyer), yet it sold off 1/4 of its only camp to a buyer which logged it immediately. A sad and tragic event. Some of that land was donated for the use of Scouts. In the words of "Carson the Butler" of Downton Abbey, "Why would that be?" And now I have a suggestion of insight: Long rumored that post bankruptcy National will consolidate councils reducing from 210, more or less, to 80 more or less. About 130 Council Executives will lose their jobs. In my council, that is about a $310,000 annual salary and benefit package. (And each of those Council Executives has every financial reason to vie for their Council's survival And, considering that ALL Council Executives have to be approved by National (Yeah, Gates video on 'Council Guidance' notwithstanding), ALL Council Executives owe their JOBS to the largess and whims of National. And therein "lies the rub." (not sure of the attribution of the concept-perhaps my friend ThenNow can help). Perhaps all of the "independent" council executives are acting to protect their lucrative council executive jobs by supporting National's demand for contribution to the settlement fund. "I want to be one of the 80 Council Executives to survive the consolidation of councils." And so, perhaps, "The Fix Is In."

A great practical idea, but I suspect that BSA's insurers will want documentation that every covered scouter sat through and passed the BSA (and insurer) approved YPT training. Sadly, what was once so simple, is now so complicated.

Actually, it is like trying to balance a real estate closing statement. I think they are known as the "Thirteenth Torment of Haydes," down there.

Why "not preferred?" And what is the issue if a Committee Member "works like an ASM?" A scout needs a mentor, a scout learns, a scout passes his requirement, AND THEN some "rule" is offended?" (Yet, the Scout learned the requirement? Mission accomplished.) An adult is needed to mentor scouts. In 25 years I've never heard a scout complain that he achieved a goal because he was mentored by a "mere" member of the committee.

Yeah-me: 25 years in a small boat with the snarly dragon of the "Void of Skilled and Willing Volunteers." (The Void tries its best to suck the enthusiasm from the willing who show up to make a difference. The Void looks a lot like indifference, but it is more pernicious.) Our Troop has about 8 adults who are involved from time to time, and 4 our 5 who are there ALWAYS. In my work life, I live in a world of rigid rules where a judge can sentence a defendant to life in prison or order an insurance company to pay an injured person $8 million. I cannot get too "wound up" over the formalistic rules of unit operations, dichotomy between Troop Committee and the Scoutmaster corps, etc… I take the YPT requirements VERY SERIOUSLY. Rigid adherence is MANDATORY. To my law clients, I say, "In my experience, everyone is just trying to get through the day." Meaning, that their sibling, child, parent, etc… are not intentionally out to to "get them," just that their sibling…are totally incompetent and lost. And that has almost always been the case. All that being said, in my unit, having a shortage of capable and willing adults, many have served in many positions, and though now registered as a C, they held A and B positions for years. So, whether preferred on not (Fred), we have many adults who are registered in one position but serve in two or more positions within the troop. Fred, can you explain what "preferred" means? When clients call about some work which has been delayed, I say, "I am dancing as fast as I can."

Could you please explain what you mean? I just don't understand your post and I want to understand your meaning. Thanks.

Amen. (Me not one "prior to" but certainly after they aged out.)

Is the corollary that "If the CO approves the adult leader, they can participate in all unit activities?" Or can/should the CO approve an adult leader for only certain activities? "You can serve on Boards of Review, but not go on campouts." (How finely can one mince the onion?)