SiouxRanger

Exhibit from a BSA IV file. Found in my random review of about 40 BSA IV files, and I think mentioned in a deposition somewhere that I read. Released, I am given to understand, after the usual legal motions, court hearings, and a court order (Oregon case). Not publicly available without the court's order; BSA contested the files' disclosure. (And I recall, perhaps only 7,000 files-not all of them…? Unlikely the non-disclosed are less egregious.) Letter to a Council Executive from Paul Ernst, Director of BSA National of Registration. "We (National BSA) have always asked that all the records in this type of situation be kept in the National Office…" That is, send National "all that is in your council's file, retain nothing (a sad perversion of the principle of "Leave No (local) Trace.") Further, unsaid, "Local councils cannot be trusted to keep these matters confidential so National wants ALL the records-the council retaining no copies-so if there is a leak at council level-National can plausibly deny claiming that the Leaker is misinformed, wrong, a disgruntled employee, nor a truth-teller, recently terminated due to underperformance or insubordination." As an aside, NONE of the BSA IV (Inelligible volunteers) files I reviewed (clearly a non-statistically valid sample) did I see any document wherein: -the local council indicated it had advised law enforcement of the matter. -the local council indicated it had advised the initial reporter of the incident, or anyone else for that matter, to report the incident, WITH THE NOTABLE EXCEPTION of two files where National advised that local "social services" be advised. But never law enforcement. And in one, when "local social services" "deferred" BSA closed its file. -that National had contacted law enforcement about the incident. -that National had advised that the council contact law enforcement. -that National had advised the council to advise someone involved in the incident to contact law enforcement. The upshot of this is, "Council, collect all the info, send it to National, THEN send your entire file to National, leaving no trace thereof in your local council files, refer to "social services (if the incident is on their radar), and close the file." Transparency. Hmmm? All key techniques of deferral and deflection. "Well, if the initial reporter of the incident, family of the alleged abused, unit leadership don't report it to law enforcement, why should we, National BSA and the council report it to law enforcement???" Because it happened on your watch. With children. (And the National BSA staff and "big-wigs," they didn't have children? And they let other children suffer the abuse? It would be VERY INTERESTING to know how BSA National senior management protected THEIR children likely having knowledge of the abuse situation in Scouting. Trustworthy. And when you lose the aura of trustworthiness? Loss of credibility. So, in the BSA IV files there may be letters/documents wherein National BSA or a local council has referred an incident report to law enforcement. PLEASE post them on this forum. Moderators, perhaps a separate thread should be created for those posts, if any. References to the relevant BSA IV file number and/or copies of the relevant letters should be posted. And, after some passage of time, if there are no such posts, it serves to support my impressions. P-K4+, maybe P-K4++, Ojoman. Q.E.D.

Exactly.

FOS is defunct in my council. Haven't received a solicitation in at least 3 years. It seems to rely on major fundraising events for funding. And major donations, but I think those are few-and limited to capital improvements-and even at that I think that is nearly zero. And who wants to pay for past abuse claims? Major donors want to put their name on a building or trail… And, even at that, my council sold off a piece of land named for the purchasers/donors to pay its portion of the bankruptcy settlement. (Get a good lawyer to restrict the use of the land donated.) Our council has maybe half or 1/3rd the staff of 5 years ago. "Thriving" is not a word heard here these days.

Do you have specifics for this? I'd really like to know what you think. Specifically, regarding: "departure from BSA practices" and "controlling of mired in out of date practices." So vague I cannot determine what you are referring to. Thanks.

In 24 years as a troop leader, Committee Chairman, Treasurer, Eagle Scout Coach, having attended all but perhaps 6 troop meetings in that time, (and all but 6 campouts) I've seen a DE appear at our troop meeting maybe 3 times. Bearing nothing but a smile and kind words. Contributing nothing to troop improvement. I have never looked to a DE to provide any help to our Troop. They have nothing to offer. The Council office has nothing to offer either other than to take our money. Unit Commissioners, well, they are as rare in their appearances. They have never offered nor contributed anything to our Troop. It is no protection to the failure of council, district executives, National, to throw-off the duties onto district volunteers. Shame. If there is a failure of National, Council, District, all lead by "commissioned professionals" it is to pass blame to unpaid volunteers. My training as a soccer dad: $0, and 0.00 hours. My training as a basketball dad: $0 and 0.00 hours.

I just have to pause and reflect over discussions of camping gear. My camping/scouting experience goes back to 1967 or so. And with 3 Eagle sons, and hundreds of campouts, as a scout, local council summer staff member, 4 years as a Philmont Ranger, and all of the campouts with my sons, less maybe 3, I own a small room in the basement FILLED with gear, some successful, some worthless, some purchased and yet unused because adding a few bucks to the order got me free shipping. And, I have been through countless discussions with other scouters, and tested, tried equipment. I own and have read all of Colin Fetcher's 4 books on camping and camping equipment. And, I have a few pointers. Every item you choose needs to serve as many uses as possible. And you have to think deeply on this. It is not obvious or easy. We all use plates. But a bowl can also hold food we'd normally expect to see served on a plate. But a bowl can also hold stew, soup, cobbler...hot chocolate... So a BOWL is more versatile than a plate. So, get a bowl-you don't need a plate. And a bowl with a handle, when your fingers are cold? Wearing heavy gloves? Get a bowl with a handle-easier to hold with gloves. My titanium bowl with handle-are you kidding me? I don't have one. I take a 99 cent plastic handled bowl I bought at a hardware store. Understand your need. Rain gear. After all my time, I just don't have a good plan. I have various rain coats. Currently REi coats, but an ideal rain coat should cover to mid thigh. So you can sit down on a log in a torrent, and have your Gluteus Maximus covered. Even better would be a raincoat that allowed you to cover your knees to mid calf when sitting. And I know of NO company which makes such a garment. Sleeping Bags. I have owned 8 or so sleeping bags over 60 years. Read many articles on how synthetic sleeping bag fills are "better" than down-filled bags. Bought synthetic filled bags, but after disappointing results bought two down-filled bags. So, I've owned both. Down-filled wins hands-down. They are not cheap. 900 fill bags are great. Will never buy another synthetic filled bag. Tents. This is a bit complicated. Some troops want to have identical tents for the entire troop to appear consistent. Like all wearing a consistent uniform. I understand that. My son's troop has declined to spend to buy troop tents because the tents don't hold up (zippers and waterproofing), so scouts bring their personal tents, and that seems to work out OK. So, mention of Big Agnes tents. I have owned more than my share of tents. Mostly Kelty, then a NorthFace Canyonlands, which I loved, (until...) and finally a Big Agnes Copper Spur 1L (I think.) And, I have no idea who Big Agnes is, nor much about the company, but I spent a great deal of treasure on a one-person tent for my last trek to Philmont. Sight unseen-bought off the web at a good discount. Best tent I have ever owned. Precisely built. Precise. Did I mention "Precisely crafted?" PERFECT. Multitools/knives. Number one tool in the wilderness is a scissors. Really? Yeah. Pliers is #2. Stoves need repair. Pliers to do that. Leatherman has two small multi-tools that fill the bill. I carry both. Fire starting. Ferro rods and a serious sense of just what natural plants are flammable-critical. Research Mora Knives and Opinel Knives. And I will post no more on this topic.

NO. WRONG. Totally wrong. Violates YPT and a parent's common sense. No one gets between me and my child. This is a "go-to-the-mat, or move on issue." In over 20 years of intense volunteering at pack, troop, district and council, never, ever heard of such a position/policy. Send a written notice/demand for intervention to the Council Exec., certified mail, return receipt requested. (And by regular mail also.) Keep copies/postal receipts for your file. Carbon copy your Institutional Head, and Chartered Organization Representative. All the parents for that matter. And carbon copy to your attorney-note in your letter/notice/demand for intervention that the IH, COR, troop parents, and your attorney are receiving copies. Do this even if you leave the Troop. It is an ethical responsibility not to leave other children exposed to this SM. Don't have an attorney, find a Scouting Friendly attorney who will agree to being a named as a carbon copy recipient. There are likely many such attorneys, attorneys being high achievers, many are Eagles. PM me if you can' find one. Maybe advise the SM that you are going to send such a notice. Hand a copy to the SM. Smile. If he changes the policy, he needs to do so in writing, signed by him. If not, send the notice/demand for clarification anyway. Then you will be on the record as having identified his abhorrent policy. And a potential abuser or abuser in the making. Hasn't 120 years of silence taught us anything? Aggressive? Well, yes. Aggressive response needed? Yes. Abusers favor shadows. Remoteness. Out of sight. And silence. And complacent parents who ASSUME that scout leaders are "good people." And mostly they are. But this SM needs to be replaced.

Well, there "ought to be ample time" but in my council, the DE's contribute virtually nothing to program. Does National even have a training program for DE's focused on "program?" A "perfect mentality/world view" is fine, but it is not reality. I have chaired district level events for over 20 years. Never has a DE provided a whit of inspiration, insight, help. A total disappointment. I have come to the belief that DE's are not trained in any aspects of program whatsoever, AND, I truly wish you could direct me to the materials that do train DE's on program. Philmont has loads training programs. Are any directed to DE's and how to put on program? There is not even any "program planning" available for volunteers. In over 20 years, one would think I would have heard of some. Hello. Issues like, scheduling, program themes, staffing, required staff certifications, food budgeting and management, supplies, safety issues, contingencies and backup plans, and so many things. And I had to INVENT plans to deal with all these things. BE PREPARED. The principle is a religion. (It is simple, well, to me: Caught "off-guard?" it is your fault. No excuses. You should NEVER be caught off-guard.) It is a zero-defect standard. Who abides by a zero-defect standard? Physicians, lawyers, engineers (buildings & bridges should not collapse), and some others. "Professional" staff was of no help whatsoever. And, so why do we need professional staff? And at such expense. All for what?

I am not sure that agreement can be presumed. I am a lawyer, 40 years in practice and our council executive, pompously affecting "CEO" is paid twice what I earn. And so, fine. BUT, the CEO manages half a dozen "professionals" who do menial tasks. (Actually, the tasks I've done as a volunteer-and much better than the "professionals.") And, if I make a legal mistake, I can lose my net worth-easily so. If the council CEO makes a mistake-frankly-who will ever know? I have no pension. Scout professionals have a superb pension. So, why does my scout CEO get paid over $300,000 (not including benefits and pension) (first year on the job at my council) to manage half a dozen professionals who largely spend their time raising money to pay him, and themselves?

I KNOW that it was commonplace in my council. Presumably, you have a pension from National and your comments should be interpreted thus so. And if no BSA pension, please so state.

My recollection is that the number of non-existent scouts falsely registered in the Atlanta council exceeded the total number of scouts registered in my council. I lost all faith in National and the professional staff at that point. Why are the professional staff "commissioned?" Because they are trained, held to a higher standard, Trustworthy? And after that report on the Atlanta council, we then learned of and experienced the BSA abuse scandal and devastating bankruptcy which has shamed the organization's otherwise stellar reputation of over one hundred years, and diminished the value of the awards earned by so many. Apparently, the principles of the Scout Oath and Scout Law apply only to us Dupees, (we pay) and not to those Dupors (who profit) who have a huge BSA salary or pension.

The Peach Cobbler reference almost certainly has to be reference to the ancient Philmont Ranger tradition of preparing a peach cobbler for the Ranger's crew on the trail at Philmont. I did many of those. AND IF NOT such a reference, please post about it. Thanks.

As near as I can tell, “equitable muteness” means the appellate court recognizes that the trial court screwed up horribly, but that so many people believed that the trial court knew what it was doing, and relied on that belief, or even the trial court’s Judgment to proceed with enforcement of the trial court’s Judgment, that the appellate court system does not want to disappoint them at the appellate level. Which raises another issue. A trial court could issue a Judgment of doubtful legal propriety, and then authorize immediate implementation of that Judgment, “NOT pending appeal,” thus rendering the court’s judgment “unappealable” due to the doctrine of “equitable muteness.” Essentially, a lower court can sabotage appeals of its own Judgments by ordering immediate implementation, NOT pending appeals, thus providing the appeals court with the “out” of “we can’t review or reverse the trial court’s judgment because of “equitable mootness.” Appeals court: “Even if the trial court is hopelessly wrong, its erroneous judgment has been implemented so extensively, that, per the doctrine of “equitable muteness,” we will not reverse the trial court’s judgment.” So, the trial court got it all wrong. The Appeals Court feels its hands are tied and can’t reverse an erroneous trial court judgment, and the wrongs, of a trial court, are not righted. Hmmm. American Justice? This analysis gets really ugly. So, if the trial court’s Judgment is based on indifference, ignorance, bribe, roll of dice, cab driver’s opinion, barber’s opinion (not to slight landscapers, frog wranglers…), laziness, dumb guess, whatever…per the doctrine of equitable muteness, an appeals court will not change the trial court’s Judgment. Hmmm. (Whisper: if totally incorrect trial court Judgments can be rendered unappealable, do we even need law school educated trial court judges? Perhaps an articulate magpie can do the job, as along as the court clerk adds, “Enforceable not pending appeal” to the court order and the winning parties rush to enforcement.) So, just who wants to proceed immediately to implement the trial court’s Judgment and thereby effectively make the Judgment unappealable? Those who believe they got a good deal from the Judgment. BSA, certain insurers, and any party to this mess opposing the appeals-they figure they got a good deal. I truly hope that attorneys on this forum with greater knowledge and experience on these matters than me chime in on the whole BSA bankruptcy process we have seen, and on the doctrine of equitable muteness, and my comments here-maybe I’ve got it all out of balance.

Lord Michael Baden-Powell autographed the first book I ever bought-my Scout Handbook. And for those who doubt the importance of the "role-model" model, I was an adult when I met him (10 years ago?) and I remain impressed, motivated, and inspired to this day.

I met Lord Michael Baden-Powell some years ago at a Scouting Museum in the Midwest. I was invited to a reception for him at a museum. I expected some pompous, entitled British aristocrat fresh off a World-Class Brownsea event in England, disdaining his attendance at a museum reception in the states. (I learned he willingly accepted the invitation, coming from England to the Midwest on his way home to Australia.) I think he was 72 then. For 4 or 5 hours he greeted the reception line…with an incredible level of enthusiasm, which I have never seen exhibited anywhere b.y anyone. "Your name, Scout?" "Ahhh, Tim, I am so glad to meet you." (Shaking the Scout's hand-engaging the Scout's eyes.) "What do you enjoy most of Scouting?" "Of course, you are like so many. Wonderful things…" "I see you are a First Class Scout. Excellent." "And you plan to work toward Eagle?" "And you should." "I have a small gift for you (and he did)." Presenting it to the Scout. (He had an entire table set up with gifts for several hundred Scouts.) "Keep making progress on your advancement…" And the next scout, "Your name, Scout?…" And so it went… Hour after hour after hour-about 5 hours without break. I have never seen such an enthusiastic demonstration of the Scout Law principles of: Loyal, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, and Cheerful, in one sitting for so long, ever. I was stunned. Lord Michael Baden-Powell was an uncommon man by birth, but a common man by touch. Everyone was charmed by him. The event started about 5 pm, and we finally got to the restaurant (I was invited as a friend of the museum founder) at 10:30 p.m. In my humble opinion, there will likely never be another more vibrant or effective supporter Scouting than Lord Michael Baden-Powell. A titan has been lost, and the world has darkened a bit-and slowed.

A Pillar of Scouting whom I met once. Simply no equal to my knowledge in the Scouting Movement. He was the exemplary example of the "Charity of the Scouting Soul." He has no equal other than BP himself.

Sorry for being such a pest I truly want to understand current scouting events. And I have a long involvement in Scouting (over 50 years all the way to council level) and even at that, I miss the nuanced meaning of many of the acronyms commonly used on this forum. And I have t spend some minutes checking out their meaning. "Not to put too fine a point on it," but if a poster here leaves their reader to check out Google for the meaning of some acronyms-they won't bother and that reader will be lost to the conversation. It would just be so helpful to get the acronym AND the meaning of the acronym up front. (Being a lawyer, we lawyers ALWAYS give the acronym and its spelled-out name at the beginning of a document so the reader can "track along.") I have said it before on this Forum, with little apparent effect, and I say it again, this Forum is THE VOICE OF THE VOLUNTEERS,. And this Forum can be a vital tool/medium to communicate with and among the volunteers. And I assure you, the Scouting Professionals watch this Forum intently.

JOTA/JOTI JID…Oo-ee, oo-ah-ah, ting-tang, walla-walla bing-bang. Of course there's JOTHKT. And JIADPL. JIAUMF.

Thank you my friend. I appreciate the clarification. I don't miss too much, (check out my Scouting resume) but there is so much I just do not hear about current National Scouting issues not on the radar of my Council, and a bit of help by way of explanation helps me (decide to) engage in the conversation and to follow it, AND LEARN. This Forum has incredible power. I just think that there are many "lurkers" (I do not like that term. Sounds ominous. I prefer "folks who are curious", but need written help envisioning why they should pay attention or engage in the discussion. And maybe take action.) And this Forum can provide those explanations-from experienced, serious. life-long time Scouters. (Where else will they find it?) The point of my post was that this Forum can be much more than just a discussion among very experienced, very knowledgeable Scouters "sitting around the campfire" of this Forum speaking terms with cryptic references to issues, all alluding to and having a the depth of the problems and their depth of knowledge of the Scouting program. But NOT projecting any understand to folks And there is no problem with that. But this Forum can be a vehicle of CHANGE. But to do that, volunteers need to be motivated to make change. And, where do volunteers learn WHY change needs to be made. Here. From you experienced Scouters. THIS FORUM is perhaps the only existing vehicle of BSA change. So the experienced and knowledgeable Scouters here need to give guidance And newbies need to understand that change need be made. I'd just suggest that in your initial post, or an occasional follow-up, if the thread runs long, just mention why things are being discussed and why that is important.

I have long held the belief that folks speaking (communicating to others) bear the burden of making themselves understood. If I speak, I have to address my audience and speak in terms they understand. And if they are children, well, tone down the legalese, and if Phd's, well ramp it up. This forum is a wonder. Such a useful thing. And It should be not only a means of communication, but also a means of education. It is a useful tool to communicate amongst dedicated and vigorously involved scouters-we really care. (And without us, (volunteer led organization) what would Scouting be?)) Toast. And "AIA"??? I figured that out maybe a month ago. (Did not find the answer today.) Nor can remember. Hate age. Just suggesting that maybe a sentence of explanation to describe the acronyms would help educate those seeking knowledge in our forum but are just newbies. (And I am a 60ish (60 years scout in!) newbie and I struggle with "AIA.")) And maybe a sentence about the whole issue, what it was, what has changed…why the new policy/practice is good or bad..

Unbelievable. Incredible. Had no idea such a site existed. I have some vague recollection of a bird which was named the "Tennessee or Carolina... or ??? Warbler) back in Audubon's time, the "joke" being that the bird was "collected" in the state of its name, but the bird never resided there-just migrating through.

Oh, thank you so much for this. I had no idea how many birds were migrating overhead. I've seen the warblers move through in the Spring, but no sense of the number of birds. And the hummingbirds who arrive and KNOW where the feeder was last season (me being late to put one up this season) they circle the corner of the house where the feeder was hanging in the Fall. They remember. Smart critters. And the ducks, and geese. Aways heard geese flying in the Fall at night. Just no sense of the vast numbers migrating. And an article about the number of birds dying in Chicago during the migration.

@Cburkhardtyou seem to have deep involvement in council level operations and successfully so. My involvement with my council has been at the District level, but also as a member of the Council Board, and as an attorney, I see things in much greater legal depth than most folks. I just ask who was responsible for "adequately govern and manage Scouting? And who failed in that? In my Council, volunteers are relegated to ministerial work. This an indictment of the ability and capacity of the "Professional Scouters" as you, a non-professional scouter, not trained by National to manage a Council, see the inadequate management of FOUR NATIONALLY CHARTERED COUNCILS as INADEQUATE. "Very apparent," and so, why so? So, FOUR FAILED Nationally commissioned Scout Executives. Hmm. (Now, arguably only one or two of the four were "Failed" but can one thank National for being only one-quarter or half right? And I find it very disturbing that an amateur, non-professional has to identify the gross operational failures of four Nationally chartered Councils and establish a modicum of operational normalcy. And all to so no denigration of @churkbardt 's role-she/he fixed a mess… And so, I suspect have so many of us others…

It is not clear to me to which poster you are referring. But that is not my position.

Does this reference something I posted? If so, which sentence.