SiouxRanger

National KNEW child abuse was problem for about a CENTURY, DEMANDED that local councils send ALL abuse-related paperwork to National (so as to avoid embarrassment-whose? Lovely), SEALED all the records, AND APPARENTLY TOLD NO ONE. "TRUSTWORTHY." When was it last seen, and where? Just what does "Trustworthy" look like? Apparently, "Character Counts," but only selectively so. Us volunteers were led by the "Judas goat." And we are left with a hat full of rain.

Not sure this is entirely responsive, but my Catholic Diocese sent an email to my troop that our Diocese was NOT part of the Catholic Ad Hoc Committee's "resolution" (such as it might be) and that the Parishes in my Diocese will not recharter units UNLESS Facilities Use Agreements are signed, (the Catholic version not the BSA version) and abuse and molestation insurance coverage is provided-and there were specific insurance requirements. Maybe Catholic sponsorship of BSA Scouting units is over. Seems to be so for us. Does anyone know of an insurance carrier offering abuse and molestation coverage for BSA units? Thanks.

Not for profits generally don't pay taxes. They do solicit donations and grants and a perhaps a poorly performing financial stratements-would that be a plus for soliciting funds? Our council's financial statements are not prepared according to GAAP so it is impossible to tell if summer camp made a profit, or lost money. Same with cub day camps. The Council Executive surely knows, and perhaps the Council President. I doubt anyone else knows. The #2 in command does not know.

Lightning can strike as far away as 60 to 100 MILES from your location (depending on your source of info). And the phrase, "bolt from the blue" is true. You can be in total sunshine and get hit by lightning. If you are ANYWHERE on Philmont and hear thunder, (ANYWHERE ON PHILMONT) there is lightning which created the thunder and you are a potential target. Philmont is small considering the enormous reach of lightning. Scatter, get off ridges, provide only one point of contact to Earth. Sit on a foam sleeping pad, knees in the air, arms locked under your knees, with one's feet in the air. You scatter so that if lightning strikes, some in your crew will not be injured and they can assist the injured. At Santa Claus camp, one year of my experience, a crew hiked in while our crew was lightning hunkeryed-down. "How close was the lightening?" "We could feel the heat." Way too close.

Well, that's a thought. Our council is poor compared to many. I suppose it could pledge unrestricted assets on which it is earning 7-8% (invested in a fund managed by National, I think) and borrow at 2-4%, and attempt to pay back the loan from future donations and fees. Not enough unrestricted, invested funds to cover the whole settlement contribution, but maybe 2/3rds of it. Perhaps borrow the remaining 1/3rd against the unimproved part of the camp. The unimproved part is mostly timber, some tillable (maybe 5 to 10%) and much of that under 6 feet of water in the spring flood. I don't think that land will support a loan for 1/3rd of my LC's settlement contribution. It just can't produce much revenue relative to the debt service. Maybe 20 acres of corn, a timbering every 10 or 15 years, and deer hunting rental for those into that. It will be a close run game in my LC. Not that the outcome here is of any consequence to others, but the analysis might help someone solve their council's conundrum.

Maybe progress with the Catholic Church? https://missoulian.com/news/national/scouts-reach-deal-with-catholic-committee-in-bsa-bankruptcy/article_06a6c79c-6d92-5488-8fca-d079972d59b9.html

Sorry-no ugly hatred intended, just trying to imagine what a council can say that would induce a lender to lend, and what a lender will see if they look at the available data. It appears that the SE here does not believe a loan is likely (unless the lender is "very accommodating"-whatever that means). I don't see how a commercial lender can simply ignore lending standards and practices. Using available cash is apparently out. so that leaves a sale of part or all of camp. I am given to understand that the council's contribution is due by the end of April or mid-May at the latest. That is a very tight timeframe to conduct and close a sale. There are issues of survey, easements for access. A buyer's lender's requirements being addressed. Obtaining a title commitment, appraisal, and such. It takes 30 to 45 days to get a mere house sale through the system. So, anyone know what happens if a council does not make its payment by the due date? Does anyone know authoritatively when the due date is? Another issue is if we sell only part of the camp, and then our council is merged out of existence, will we be selling off the balance of the camp? I don's see much coordination of effort here.

My council is looking to sell of about a third of our only camp. But maybe we will be merged out of existence, regardless.

Just who would lend that kind of money to a council that has lost 40% to 60% of its customers (% generally of councils)? And, considering that 100% of the dues paid by those customers goes to National, not the council. A council has no guaranteed revenue stream, just donations, and some fees. What am I missing? My best guess is that friendly lenders will make the "loan" with little expectation that it will be repaid, and someday write it off. (The lender's shareholders will likely never know that they have been duped.) And the BSA will continue to benefit from the "pass mentality" of folks-who-know-better-yet-despite-their-better-business-judgment-look-the-other-way, because, after all, "It IS Scouting." "Well, India IS British." Some lame general in the movie Gandhi. And, in my humble opinion, that "pass mentality" is why National is now where it is. In bankruptcy accused of horrific lapses and active concealment. National did not need to have a good plan as everyone was willing to give it a pass based on its reputation, and National interpreted that "pass" as an affirmation that it was "doing things right." With respect to issues of abuse, National did many serious things wrong. Debate as one might, National filed bankruptcy over it all. And therein lies the proof of its folly.

Thanks.

Well, my posts, just doing my due diligence after my SE reassured me (yesterday at a face-to-face meeting along with others from my unit) that I need not question whether us volunteers were covered by insurance for abuse and molestation issues. "Why would we ask?" Yeah, well, I AM a lawyer, and yeah, where is the PROOF we are covered? No proof offered. (SE offered to look into it.) At my age, and hating THE LAW as I do, (and as everyone should-I am a professional) the prospect of spending my retirement years at a counsel table in a courtroom, at my expense, defending myself as a mere volunteer because of the deep and hidden actions of some skulking, pseudo volunteer, near (or) professional level predator, and thereby risking my net worth, being unpaid for my effort, yeah, I am not about to sign on to unlimited liability for someone else's sordid activities. And there it is in a nutshell. All of us were duped to do so in the past, and apparently National expects us to accept such in the future. NO. No Proof-No Play. Why would anyone voluntarily subject themselves to this liability? I am still "percolating" about my resignation from Scouting, and after a 60+ year run, and all so the wonderful times , I am but hours away from pulling the plug. How has it all come to this? And so the spinning of the World slowed and all turned to a darker shade of gray.

Has anyone received official confirmation, from National, that us volunteers are now insured against abuse and molestation claims? Why should any of us register if the liability of the past is not fixed for the future? Why is National not reassuring us volunteers that regardless of the neglect (or worse) by National of the past, National has our back in the future? Is anyone familiar with any reassurances by National to that effect?

Is anyone aware of abuse cases where unit leaders, not the alleged abuser, were named as defendants? Thank you.

Sorry for any confusion, some have raised issues that my TONE was frivolous on other matters, so many posts ago.

So, seriously: 1. Just boil water and have a bottle of some brand of "coffee flakes or crystals." Folks can add as little or as much as their taste demands boldness. There are a number of brands of coffee flakes or crystals and they have different tastes. Take two or three different brands. Let the coffee drinkers choose the one they prefer best. (Or just ask them, and buy what they want, or tell them to bring their own.) 2. There are "coffee packets" similar to tea bags. Perhaps multiple brands. Get a selection. Any adult not satisfied should consider a career in the French Foreign Legion . (My apologies for relapse.) 3. So, for the coffee lovers who insist that amateur (our poster) make THEIR coffee by actually brewing it. A. There is the "French Press" method. Check the internet for directions and the equipment needed. (ADD 10% to their camp fee for the specialty equipment needed and language training.) B. There is the "Percolator Pot Method" which involves a metal coffee pot, a lid with a glass bulb, a metal stem, and a metal basket for the coffee grounds. Dump about a scoop of grounds for each two (2) cups of coffee into the basket. (Do the math: A cup of coffee is 8 oz. A pot that can make 8 cups only need 4 scoops of coffee. A little stronger, add a scoop, less caffeine, substitute decaf as desired. Heat until there are "poops" of water passing through the glass bulb. When the "poops" are dark enough to suit taste, remove from heat and pour. C. There is the "Cowboy Pot Method" practiced by Joe Davis, Philmont Camp Director so long ago who personally taught me this method at the Hunting Lodge one night at a conference of senior Ranger Staff in 1972 or 1973. He dumped a scoop of grounds into a coffee pot of water for every cup of coffee to be produced, and a scoop of grounds 'for the pot.'" When he thought it was ready, he added another cup of water "to settle the grounds" (to the bottom of the pot, presumably) and after a bit poured out a strong coffee being careful not to disturb the grounds which had settled to the bottom of the pot. So, just to check notes: Becoming a Scout does not mean you suspend your judgment or the scientific method. Headed to a campout and need to make coffee? Get the equipment to do so and do some test brews in your kitchen and have the coffee drinkers be present to evaluate your efforts. Adjust your formula. Folks who do not show up to assist? They can drink swill. Perhaps just as important as the coffee, or even more so to many, are the creamers folks prefer. Powdered creamers are all over the ballpark all being offensive to my palate. There are all manner of liquid creamers, various (millions) flavors. ABSOLUTEY require your unit coffee drinkers to bring their own as there are just too many variations to accommodate your unit's coffee drinkers. And budget. I drink black coffee. Simplifies everything. And, I only need to scrape out residue once a year. All so as to accommodate more black coffee. A little known aspect of the Philmont Ranger Mentality, being just another aspect of the "Philmont Ranger Mile." Gee, half way through this post, already replies. Headed to the woods to dig a foxhole and await the blast...

Change your name. Plastic surgery. Dye your hair. Change your fingerprints. Learn a foreign language (with the appropriate accent). Change continents of residence-Antarctica is recommended. NEVER make coffee for anyone. Other than that, you are doomed. (Oh, and why aren't the coffee lovers making their own coffee?) (Sorry to someone so long ago who criticized me for frivolous comments, but the topic of COFFEE is an exception.)

Well, I think that there are. Any deviation of official rules is seen as a "violation" whatever that means. It is not uncommon in statutes for there to be rules, with NO consequences. Well, and one might ask, why are there rules (enacted by the Legislature which ought to know better than to make rules with no consequences) with no consequences? Shoot somebody, there are consequences-severe. Well, there is this concept in the law of "aspirational." Essentially, the idea that the Legislature is suggesting that folks meet certain standards that have no penalties but folks should still aspire to meet. (Frankly, "aspire" to me means "perspire" and if enough sweat drops, you've fulfilled your duty.) This concept, in my state, is generally found in lawyer professional ethics rules. (Sure, let's give the lawyers a way out-well, I am one, and resent any break that diminishes my credibility.) So, back to Scouts in uniform. A Scout wearing a Scout shirt, is OK. A scout who has his shirt tucked in, is better, and a Scout with neckerchief is at the top. Some have the appropriate rank patches, others not so much. I am delighted that Scouts show up at all, whatever their attire, and many came from sports activities in some measure of sports attire, and many some minutes late. But they were at the meeting. I am not about to send them away. And nearly all of the Scouts in my Troop who were in sports earned Eagle. They worked hard and we accommodated. And before you pound down on me as some weak-willed, uniform-denier, I worked on the Philmont Ranger staff in the early 1970's-3 years. Rangers ALWAYS wore Class A uniforms on the trail, and we joked "We were not allowed to sweat." (Well, we were very young and strong, and just might have pulled that off-but whatever, you NEVER were allowed to be out-of-breath.) Ranger staff now wear knit shirts. Not sure why.

You are right, but I still win. (Headed to my bank to deposit...what do I get? Who cares.) Rules And Regulations Of The Boy Scouts Of America 9-2020 II. Policies Policy Concerning Military Training Technical military training and drill must not be included in the Scouting program. (Last time I read it was 1998±. I think it was the same, then. Homer nodded, slightly. The BIG NOD on my part was not catching that the Hitler Youth did not exist at the time of BSA's Charter so no prohibition on military training would likely have been incorporated at the time of Congressional Chartering on that account.) I have not researched WHEN the prohibition on military training arose. Somebody probably knows. Curiously, the U.S. Military seems to have a preference for "non-militarily trained" Scouts. On the other hand, my swimming merit badge required that we entered the pool silently, swim the length of the pool silently, and exit the pool silently. Seems a lot like Seal Team 6 prep to me.

Just have to put in a plug for the Ashley Book Of Knots. Known as "ABOK" to those fascinated with knots. If you don't own a copy, copyrighted in 1944, and revised in 1991± (or maybe 1993), or have not seen or heard of it, you have truly missed something. It is available online as a .pdf, and on eBay in hardcopy. Get the revised 1991 (or maybe 1993) edition. (No one seems officially to know which knots were revised in 1993±, though there are various lists available but they do not agree.) About 4,000 knots, hitches, and bends. All drawn in pen and ink by a master artist. Each knot is numbered, along with a discussion of the knot, a bit of history… Then there are also plat sinnets, splices, block and tackle configurations, ship rigging, button knots. (Remember those long plastic buttons that slid through loops on your Robert Hall coat with the faux fur collar? They had faint lines embossed on them mimicking the leather lace used to tie them from when folks KNEW how to tie them.) Decorative knots, knots usable as tricks, how to make a boatswain's chair, how to tie it to a rope so you can hang from a steeple to repair the roofing, and how to tie a hammer to a rope so you can raise it safely to work on the steeple. How to truss up an elephant to load it into the hold of a ship, or tilt a ship on shore to expose its hull to scrape barnacles. Marlinspike seamanship. How to make standing rigging: "Worm and service with the lay, turn and parcel the other way." It is a Masterpiece. Anyway, back to bicycles, there are a number of "running hitches" shown in ABOK. They are typically used to secure a sail to the boom after a day of sailing. However, they are also particularly suited to repairing a bicycle tire where the tread has separated from the bead due to the rubber being rotted. A series of running hitches draws the tread back to the rim, which covers and protects the inner tube. It will get you home. World like a charm on a Troop bicycle trip. The great advantage of running hitches is that one does not need to laboriously snake the whole rope through the spokes and around the tire. One is only passing a short loop through the spokes. Easy on, easy off. And, from the previous post, we learn that running hitches may make suitable bicycle snow tires.

I have to agree in Fred's sincerity and balance. And I agree with his comments about "a different time, place, beliefs, sensitivities, etc. (and I do not intend to misquote or misrepresent Fred's comments), and frankly, even today, the last decade or two, having brought 3 sons through the program to Eagle, I have never felt comfortable about discussing abuse issues and feel that even I, recognize that I, personally , live in that different time, place...). And, not only is that uncomfortable, parent to child, but I never really appreciated the extent of the abuse. (I do now.) I never saw any suggestion of improper behavior in any scouting activity I was involved in. (I once deduced that a burglary had happened by a tiny splinter of wood on my desk-about 1/32nd of an inch long-no way it got to my desktop without foul play-and I was right.) BUT, where I depart from agreement with anyone's comments to the contrary, is that abuse is a CRIME and as a CRIME it should be reported to the police, folks charged and authorized to investigate reports of CRIME. And the police are charged to report credible allegations to the state's attorney. And allegations of abuse should be reported no matter of the reporting person's evaluation of whether it is a crime, or will be taken up by a prosecutor to file charges, or whether those charges will ever be proven, or whether a conviction result. An observers duty is to report, regardless of beliefs, results, or consequences. And THAT is where National failed its Scouts, its leaders, its Councils, its Chartering Organizations, and its PRINCIPLES, starting with "Trustworthy." And we cannot doubt that failure of National as its bankruptcy is proof enough of its catastrophic and unmitigated failure of principle. That National (apparently) required Councils to send ALL documents related to an abuse claim to National, retaining NO documents at the Council offices, is clear and irrefutable evidence of National's pattern of concealment of incidents of abuse. This is unforgivable. PERIOD. That there were parents whose scout had been subjected to abuse who did not want their scout subjected to the legal process, having to be interviewed by law enforcement, subjected to depositions with the alleged abuser being present, and then having to testify in court-Yep, I understand and that is one reason why so few cases were prosecuted back then. Were there parents, guardians of their natural children, who exercised that authority and waived claims against abusers? Yep, probably a lot. Are there claimants now, whose parents intentionally waived filing a claim (to protect their scout in his tender years) until it was too late to file under the applicable statutes of limitations? Certainly. And likely a high percentage of claimants who are outside the statute. And are there adult scout claimants now who still suffer from the damage inflicted in their tender years? Yes. Without doubt. One of my best friends was ruthlessly abused as a youth, and only told me about it about 4 years ago, a delay of about 52 years. And his parents KNEW of the abuse and sent him to a facility where he was further abused. He had a tortious adult life.

@ThenNow before you go the "hook, line, and sinker" route, our Troop camped at Devil's Lake one April. I checked historical weather reports for the area and packed shorts. (And long pants, too.) Be Prepared. There was a foot of snow on the ground when we arrived and one other tent in the entire park. The temp hit minus 9 overnight.

Over the ankle if wearing a backpack. And also if hiking trails with a lot of loose rocks (double fist sized) that you'll be stepping over. Philmont seems to have a lot more rocks on its trails than I remember from the 70's. But, if you think about it, trails which have larger rocks uphill from them, pretty much self-trap rocks as they are loosened by rain and roll down the hill and land on the trail. There really is no erosive process to move them off the trail as properly constructed trails are not nearly as steep as the hillsides they cut across. As it has been about 50 years since first hiking Philmont, I think my theory has some likelihood of being at least partially accurate. You might do fine with a below the ankle boot but twisting an ankle 10 miles from a trailhead could be trouble.

At an Eagle Court of Honor years ago, just as I was about to speak, as I looked across the audience assembled for the 3 Eagle Scouts, it struck me that the majority of folks there were not active in Scouting and likely had no inkling of the number of requirements the Eagles had completed, the range of skills and topics those requirements spanned, the years it took to do so, and even more telling, the vast number of campouts and meetings each Eagle had attended to complete just a requirement or two. As it is our Troop's practice to provide each Eagle with a 3 ring binder with an extensive collection of certificates, letters, etc., and having one before me, I turned to the print out of Ione of the Eagle's entire scouting history, showing the dates that they earned each requirement and merit badge. I spoke for just a couple of minutes about what it takes to earn Eagle-mentioning the items above. My point is that Scouting is a complicated program. Touching on topics and skills few adults have unless they've been through the program as a youth. Knots, life-saving, archery, kayaking, first aid, canoeing, rifle shooting, fire building, fishing, cooking over a fire, gas stove operation (and repair), whittling, shotgun shooting, tree identification, range safety, camping skills, knife and axe… And it is not merely these skills which are a challenge, but also being a unit leader mentoring and counseling youth whose ages span a number of years and taking into account the emotional and academic differences among scouts of different ages. And it is "immersive." Weekend campouts and summer camp weeks are a far cry from an event lasting an hour or two. I can understand parents being reluctant. The program is daunting. Few adults active in my Troop have a scouting background. It is not the program I grew up in. Many merit badges are "homework" oriented-much more paperwork-which has been growing over the last several decades. Most scouts struggle to motivate themselves to complete merit badges that are mostly paperwork. My generation is late 60's to mid 70's. Many boilers are running out of steam. Who will pick up the load?

And my Catholic unit remains unchartered, and apparently no catholic units in my diocese have been rechartered,

And perhaps you are right. "Darkly" Yeah, lawyers are inclined that way. But things rarely resolve by themselves to the better. I love the program and the principles, and followed my 3 sons and many other Scouts to Eagle. But the individuals who manage BSA operations at National? No, they should all be fired. Tell me if you can, where is the bright light in National's bankruptcy? It is an UNMITIGATED DISASTER. What part of "unmitigated disaster" cannot be understood? BSA National senior staff should be trashed. All of them.