SiouxRanger
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Well, the current American "system" for "gun control" is to wait until some wacko, ambushes children, kill the wacko, and thereby, de facto, REVOKE THEIR FIREARMS LICENSE. Works good: one wacko, one revocation. EXCEPT: Just costs 10 or 20 lives of innocents. Children. What greater sadness, than the murder or abuse of children? My heart grieves for them all.
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It all boils down to a definition of "weapons of 'War.'" They should be banned from private ownership. Just consider the carnage they have caused. The souls of so many children. And the grief of their families. America is sadly broken. And I grieve for these children and their families that I do not know, but I grieve.
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So, I have this question: Parent of a Scout, in their first 2 years of scouting , pay $600 for camp fees-things which are permissible to be paid by scouting account funds. Year 3, scout gets up to speed and raises $250 through unit fundraising activities. Scout then uses $150 for more camp fees, then quits Scouting leaving a $100 balance in the Scout's scout account. Can the remaining balance of $100 in Scout's scout account be refunded to parents to partially reimburse them for the $600 in camping fees they paid during Scout's first two years of tenure, leaving them with only a $500 parental outlay? Note, had Scout earned $250 through fundraising activities right off the bat, those funds would have been used first before parents paid out of their pocket, and parents would have only spent $500. Mathematically, the result is the same. The only difference is the timing of the additions to the Scout's scout account.
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Is It Time for the BSA to Change Its Leadership Model?
SiouxRanger replied to gpurlee's topic in Issues & Politics
I missed your comment. And you are right, the program materials to put on the program are of minuscule cost. Our council camp provides a huge percentage of the council's revenue. And yet minor costs are not addressed, and program suffers, and scouts (customers) are disappointed. -
And, I just remembered the tradition of retiring from a campfire (camporee or summer camp), to one's campsite in silence. An opportunity to reflect on things. That always just struck me. Even upon arriving at our campsite, scouts still spoke softly. It had an effect.
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That is interesting. I've been on 4 Philmont treks since 2005 and no flags were issued. I thought that was strange given my experience in the early 1970's. The flags were probably 10" x 14" or so.
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I'd draw a distinction between conducting an investigation (implying having authority to investigate, collect evidence, draw conclusions, and perhaps take disciplinary action), and merely collecting evidence and information to pass on to those authorized to formally investigate. If chartering organizations are going to be held responsible for the actions of those registered in their units, the leadership of those units ought to be interested in and take a part in investigating (collecting information at the least) alleged youth protection violations.
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Well, I think you have a valid point. Some of what has been around forever just has to go. The issue is what traditions enhance participation in the program and which have lost their usefulness. I wouldn't categorize every aspect of the program as a "tradition," such as requiring camping merit badge for Eagle. There are (or at least were) good reasons to require camping merit badge for Eagle. It taught valuable skills-even life-saving skills. And adopting modern business practices-that should always be a priority. I was thinking along the lines of the little things, practices, that scouts see day-to-day. That teach important skills or moral lessons. The little things that give the program its flavor. Not only the ones I mentioned, but things, like, back in the day: --Scout patrols at camporees were expected to have a patrol yell, to be robustly performed at each station of camporee activities. --Scout patrols were expected to have a patrol flag. Not any during my adult time. --At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole. 1968. By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag. --Summer camp staff would adopt a "personaa" and interact with scouts in their personna. One memorable personaa was "Sparky" at my council's camp. The scouts spoke of their interactions with Sparky and liked forward to seeing him next summer. --"Leave a Campsite in better condition than you found it." A good idea. A scout it helpful. Instills a sense of duty in a scout (and is a hint that if they trash a camp, they will be cleaning up-so don't trash it in the first place). In the early days with the troop with my son, I'd put out a Leatherman Micra for some lucky scout to find. And when found, I'd use that as a teachable moment to the troop-and the lucky scout got to keep it. --Scouts used to prize attaining their Totin' Chip card, entitling them to carry a pocket knife. That seems to be lost. "Violate a Totin' Chip rule and a corner will be clipped from your card. Four corners clipped and you have to re-qualify." No one wanted a single corner clipped. Just a representative sample of what I have seen disappear. Maybe they are useless now, but learning how to close a pocket knife without trapping a finger seems important to me. A "tradition" which focuses the mind of a youth on a valuable life-skill, or leadership development skill, IF modern youth accept it as important, remains important. And THANK YOU for responding to my post. You raised a very important issue. And I will continue to consider the issue you raised. Just what needs to be retained and what dropped.
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I have long made the argument that Scouting was in the entertainment business. Providing fun and engaging activities while intermixing learning and leadership aspects in those activities. A happy and engaged Scout brings his friends. And participation grows. It just seems that my council, and apparently National, has no clue. Math is not Scouting. Enthusiasm is.
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Scouterlockport (Illinois?) what is the basis of your downvote? I can't learn from a mere downvote.
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I am just one simple player of tens of thousands headed to the sunset. And in which hearts will Tradition lie? And can "Tradition" go extinct when all the hearts which hold the Tradition die?
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In high school, so many moons ago, like 56 years ago, a brilliant math teacher in presenting a proof on the chalk board, when it did not quite work out, would say: "The best laid plans of mice and men oft times go astray." I think National will likely taste the bitter edge of this aphorism. The "pre-loaded" plan failed. The vote failed (as most seem to think). Many of the tangential big players have not gotten "on board" (Catholics, some insurance companies, Methodists (it appears, more or less), Mormons abandoned ship, parents and their kids seem to be looking for something a bit less involved than a lesson in complex bankruptcy for a youth activity...and, at least me, a volunteer of 28 years, at virtually all levels of the council from cub unit, troop unit, district, and council, am exhausted by it all. I'll note one thing that frightens me regarding the future of Scouting: I was a Cub, Arrow Of Light, Boy Scout, Eagle, local camp staff, Philmont Ranger Staff, father of 3 Eagles, held many Pack positions, Troop positions, District positions, Council Executive Board, District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver (and I am not in the race for Awards-for-adults; I wear only the Eagle knot that I earned). Of the 6 or 8 active adults in may Troop, only ONE had prior Scouting experience, and he an Eagle. All the rest are non-scouting experience adults. They are determined and really capable, but the "Tradition" is being lost. “May the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts be with us until we meet again.” No one in my Troop has ever heard this or have any sense of what it means. Nor experienced the solemnity which settles on one's soul when said at a dying campfire, everyone holding hands. Scout Vespers. Lost. "Leave a campsite in better condition than you found it." NADA. "Say what? Policing a campsite? Never done. These are aspects of simple rituals which are calming, settling. They provide a sense of continuity and of belonging. An established routine. Scouts who do not advance as they might, STILL feel involved and have a sense of belonging to a group of their peers-they feel accepted. Which I think is very important. The Tradition seems to be slipping away. Who are the adults who are inclined to lead Scouting into the future? I think that there are few adults now involved who have any experience in Scouting.
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Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. We are all loyal passengers on a train ill-driven.
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If an SE does anything, I'd be surprised.
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Then the SM should have intervened. There is NO excuse in Scouting for unkind behavior. A Scout is Kind. No matter what. AND, the words and actions of ADULTS are magnified in their importance many times just because they are adults. Some time ago parents of a scout, and the scout, appeared at a troop meeting to "interview" our troop. The dad had all sorts of negative comments about our adult leaders and even scouts in our Troop. (Seriously? You come asking for a place of refuge and criticize a successful, going concern?) I made plain that nothing in the troop would change and I never heard another word from them.
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Does it matter?
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Find another troop. Your son's friends can follow along. The Scoutmaster's (maybe plural?) behavior is abhorrent and inexcusable. Praise in public; criticize in private (though 2 deep leadership). There is NO REASON your son or you should have to put up with this. "Punishment" has NO place in Scouting.
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They have little place in Scouting. I wear brightly colored shirts in the backcountry. Easier for rescue helicopter folks to find me. Be Prepared.
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Re Ingersoll Scout Reservation, SW 100+- acres sold, along with the Easterly 187 acres a few minutes ago, leaving about 650 acres. WD Boyce Council.
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Well, I just don't know. It is a puzzle. National has a Federal Charter, and only a couple of organizations are chartered Federally. I think that means that it need not incorporate in some state and then qualify to do business in the other 49 states annually. I don't know if it is a Federally chartered not-for-profit, but I suspect so.. And I also don't know if there is a Federal Not-For-Profit statute which regulates its operations. States have not-for-profit corporation statutes. Normally, when the Federal Government enacts a law within its Constitutional authority, it pre-empts state laws on the same matter. That is, state laws that are pre-empted are no longer valid. Bankruptcy law, for example, has pre-empted state law, so there is only Federal bankruptcy law. National, being in bankruptcy, one would think that bankruptcy law would control on all matters and pre-empt state law on all matters touching on finances. That all being rather uncertain, it gets us to the conundrum: National clearly believes that it is prohibited from accepting donations from residents of specific states. My best guess, being only that, is that some states have laws restricting not-for-profits from accepting donations if in bankruptcy. Such a law would probably avoid the pre-emption doctrine, unless the Bankruptcy law permitted not-for-profits to accept donations and then I think National could accept donations from residents of every state.
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And cannot that be done with separate male-female patrols?
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I agree. Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.“ — Mark Twain Well...no. Truth should be spread far and wide. All who care to listen, understand, and learn should be welcome to the classroom. Scouting is the classroom. Fun is the teacher. Wisdom is the lesson. I come from a family of very smart women. Much brighter than me. I was at Philmont when the first women Rangers were hired. Top class individuals. I make no apologies that I take lessons and knowledge from whatever source I can. I learn by listening, not talking. Talking is rather selfish. Many folks with far fewer hours in the classroom than me have taught me many valuable things. And I respect them for their unknowing assistance in my education and development (and development of "life perspective.") That there is even a discussion on whether girls should be ALLOWED to participate in Boy Scouting puzzles me. Why should girls be denied the chance to learn from the BSA Program? It has great things to offer. And no one should be denied the opportunity to participate. “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” ― Margaret Mead Seems that it is usually only one. Why would an institution deny opportunity to half the population?
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So...we have an organization in dire financial straits...that is prohibited from accepting donations? 'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." --Anatole France "My cup runneth over with love-of-the-law." --Me Common sense may not yet be dead, but it is in a coma and on life support. I met with the family yesterday, Truth, Decency, and Reason, and expressed my concern. They are hopeful, but also resigned. (Part of this paragraph sort of a paraphrase from an article I found on the web.)