SiouxRanger

Absolutely. I cannot recall WHY I jumped into the lake. I only recall that SOMETHING was wrong. And I got it right. It is why Scouting matters.

Over 50 years ago I saved a life. No doubt. Was on family vacation when I was about 14-16. At a lake in Wisconsin. The resort had a sloped wooden platform ramp into the lake onto which one could run up the boat to land it. Partially in the lake and partially dry. The ramp held about 6 boats. The ramp was at the base of a "cliff" of about 60', heavily wooded and shielded from view from everyone in the cabins above. I had landed my boat after fishing, got out, slipped on the algae growing on the portion of the ramp in the water, noted it was wickedly slick and dangerous. I went out onto the dock to clean off ??? (that I don't remember). And down the 60' set of steps to the ramp area came a group of 3 or 4 year olds. Chattering, laughing. I looked at them and then scanned the area and saw no adults supervising them. No adults. Strange, I thought. The group made it to the flat area by the ramp and dock. They were very noisy-chattering and giggling-maybe 5 or 6 children. They could not speak. So they were young. I went about my business out on the dock, until I noticed a marked increase in the chatter from the group of children. I looked at them, nothing seemed amiss, but they were looking at the lake, pointing, and clearly agitated. I asked the group (something???) but they were too young to respond. I remember looking around to detect if anything was amiss. The lake surface was smooth. Nothing. I looked again at the group of children, and they were looking toward an area off the end of the boat ramp. The same ramp I had slipped on a few minutes before, nearly making my way into the lake by accident. The water was opaque due to silt and an algae bloom. I recall making a couple of quick surveys of the entire situation-maybe in nanoseconds, and full well knowing the idiocy (Eagle Scout or nearly so) of jumping into water where one does not know of the obstacles in the water (like steel fence posts which can impale you) I jumped into the lake. I thrashed about searching. (For what? Was there even a problem? Maybe I am a fool.) And my left hand grasped a child's forearm and my instant thought was to get the child's head above water so the child could breathe. And I helped the boy onto the boat dock. All the children ran off as if nothing had happened. Never saw them again. And a mom had her son returned to her and never knew that she had lost him. My dad wondered then why I was so wet, and apparently my explanation was not sufficient, as many years later, he finally grasped the significance of the event. "You saved a life?" Yes. Being a minor at the time of the event, and the oldest and only witness capable of talking about the event, I do not qualify for any BSA lifesaving award. Yet, to this day, my memory holds firm the sensation of my left hand grasping the forearm of the boy I drew from the lake and placed on the boat dock to run off and continue as if nothing happened. And so it is. We be Scouts.

Any particular year? (By legal convention, construction contract completion dates are specified as "Julember, no year stated.)

By the way, just took delivery of my M1A1 Abrams tank. Headed to the bank which holds my car loan. Need to "reason" with them a bit. And, I am gun owner. Quite a few-long guns and handguns. I want to keep them. Some inherited. Just keepsakes. Happy to have a review of my mental stability to own them, (had to do that to be licensed as a lawyer), and happy to pass a proficiency test on my ability to manipulate (handle) and shoot them under control and hit something close to the target. (I am a good shot.) I don't have a concealed carry permit though allowed in my state. I am not rabid. I used to hunt pheasant with my dad, so many decades ago, now I target shoot once every several years, and I keep a pistol handy at home for defense. No civilian needs weapons of war. Period. Civilians can't have A-10 Warthogs, nor laser-guided tank destroying missiles, nor quad-50 machine guns, nor....why should civilians be allowed to own an AR-15 which is designed for WAR? Grenades. An assembly of those would dress up the Thanksgiving table. If the firearm is not legal for taking game, it should be banned from private ownership. Limited to issue by the military and returned to the military upon completion of service.

Well, the current American "system" for "gun control" is to wait until some wacko, ambushes children, kill the wacko, and thereby, de facto, REVOKE THEIR FIREARMS LICENSE. Works good: one wacko, one revocation. EXCEPT: Just costs 10 or 20 lives of innocents. Children. What greater sadness, than the murder or abuse of children? My heart grieves for them all.

And not a single upvote. There has been a ton of angst expressed here for child scouts who were subjected to child sexual abuse, yet for children being MURDERED, not a word. I stand appalled.

It all boils down to a definition of "weapons of 'War.'" They should be banned from private ownership. Just consider the carnage they have caused. The souls of so many children. And the grief of their families. America is sadly broken. And I grieve for these children and their families that I do not know, but I grieve.

So, I have this question: Parent of a Scout, in their first 2 years of scouting , pay $600 for camp fees-things which are permissible to be paid by scouting account funds. Year 3, scout gets up to speed and raises $250 through unit fundraising activities. Scout then uses $150 for more camp fees, then quits Scouting leaving a $100 balance in the Scout's scout account. Can the remaining balance of $100 in Scout's scout account be refunded to parents to partially reimburse them for the $600 in camping fees they paid during Scout's first two years of tenure, leaving them with only a $500 parental outlay? Note, had Scout earned $250 through fundraising activities right off the bat, those funds would have been used first before parents paid out of their pocket, and parents would have only spent $500. Mathematically, the result is the same. The only difference is the timing of the additions to the Scout's scout account.

I missed your comment. And you are right, the program materials to put on the program are of minuscule cost. Our council camp provides a huge percentage of the council's revenue. And yet minor costs are not addressed, and program suffers, and scouts (customers) are disappointed.

And, I just remembered the tradition of retiring from a campfire (camporee or summer camp), to one's campsite in silence. An opportunity to reflect on things. That always just struck me. Even upon arriving at our campsite, scouts still spoke softly. It had an effect.

That is interesting. I've been on 4 Philmont treks since 2005 and no flags were issued. I thought that was strange given my experience in the early 1970's. The flags were probably 10" x 14" or so.

I'd draw a distinction between conducting an investigation (implying having authority to investigate, collect evidence, draw conclusions, and perhaps take disciplinary action), and merely collecting evidence and information to pass on to those authorized to formally investigate. If chartering organizations are going to be held responsible for the actions of those registered in their units, the leadership of those units ought to be interested in and take a part in investigating (collecting information at the least) alleged youth protection violations.

Amen.

Well, I think you have a valid point. Some of what has been around forever just has to go. The issue is what traditions enhance participation in the program and which have lost their usefulness. I wouldn't categorize every aspect of the program as a "tradition," such as requiring camping merit badge for Eagle. There are (or at least were) good reasons to require camping merit badge for Eagle. It taught valuable skills-even life-saving skills. And adopting modern business practices-that should always be a priority. I was thinking along the lines of the little things, practices, that scouts see day-to-day. That teach important skills or moral lessons. The little things that give the program its flavor. Not only the ones I mentioned, but things, like, back in the day: --Scout patrols at camporees were expected to have a patrol yell, to be robustly performed at each station of camporee activities. --Scout patrols were expected to have a patrol flag. Not any during my adult time. --At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole. 1968. By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag. --Summer camp staff would adopt a "personaa" and interact with scouts in their personna. One memorable personaa was "Sparky" at my council's camp. The scouts spoke of their interactions with Sparky and liked forward to seeing him next summer. --"Leave a Campsite in better condition than you found it." A good idea. A scout it helpful. Instills a sense of duty in a scout (and is a hint that if they trash a camp, they will be cleaning up-so don't trash it in the first place). In the early days with the troop with my son, I'd put out a Leatherman Micra for some lucky scout to find. And when found, I'd use that as a teachable moment to the troop-and the lucky scout got to keep it. --Scouts used to prize attaining their Totin' Chip card, entitling them to carry a pocket knife. That seems to be lost. "Violate a Totin' Chip rule and a corner will be clipped from your card. Four corners clipped and you have to re-qualify." No one wanted a single corner clipped. Just a representative sample of what I have seen disappear. Maybe they are useless now, but learning how to close a pocket knife without trapping a finger seems important to me. A "tradition" which focuses the mind of a youth on a valuable life-skill, or leadership development skill, IF modern youth accept it as important, remains important. And THANK YOU for responding to my post. You raised a very important issue. And I will continue to consider the issue you raised. Just what needs to be retained and what dropped.

I have long made the argument that Scouting was in the entertainment business. Providing fun and engaging activities while intermixing learning and leadership aspects in those activities. A happy and engaged Scout brings his friends. And participation grows. It just seems that my council, and apparently National, has no clue. Math is not Scouting. Enthusiasm is.

Scouterlockport (Illinois?) what is the basis of your downvote? I can't learn from a mere downvote.

I am just one simple player of tens of thousands headed to the sunset. And in which hearts will Tradition lie? And can "Tradition" go extinct when all the hearts which hold the Tradition die?

In high school, so many moons ago, like 56 years ago, a brilliant math teacher in presenting a proof on the chalk board, when it did not quite work out, would say: "The best laid plans of mice and men oft times go astray." I think National will likely taste the bitter edge of this aphorism. The "pre-loaded" plan failed. The vote failed (as most seem to think). Many of the tangential big players have not gotten "on board" (Catholics, some insurance companies, Methodists (it appears, more or less), Mormons abandoned ship, parents and their kids seem to be looking for something a bit less involved than a lesson in complex bankruptcy for a youth activity...and, at least me, a volunteer of 28 years, at virtually all levels of the council from cub unit, troop unit, district, and council, am exhausted by it all. I'll note one thing that frightens me regarding the future of Scouting: I was a Cub, Arrow Of Light, Boy Scout, Eagle, local camp staff, Philmont Ranger Staff, father of 3 Eagles, held many Pack positions, Troop positions, District positions, Council Executive Board, District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver (and I am not in the race for Awards-for-adults; I wear only the Eagle knot that I earned). Of the 6 or 8 active adults in may Troop, only ONE had prior Scouting experience, and he an Eagle. All the rest are non-scouting experience adults. They are determined and really capable, but the "Tradition" is being lost. “May the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts be with us until we meet again.” No one in my Troop has ever heard this or have any sense of what it means. Nor experienced the solemnity which settles on one's soul when said at a dying campfire, everyone holding hands. Scout Vespers. Lost. "Leave a campsite in better condition than you found it." NADA. "Say what? Policing a campsite? Never done. These are aspects of simple rituals which are calming, settling. They provide a sense of continuity and of belonging. An established routine. Scouts who do not advance as they might, STILL feel involved and have a sense of belonging to a group of their peers-they feel accepted. Which I think is very important. The Tradition seems to be slipping away. Who are the adults who are inclined to lead Scouting into the future? I think that there are few adults now involved who have any experience in Scouting.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. We are all loyal passengers on a train ill-driven.

If an SE does anything, I'd be surprised.

Then the SM should have intervened. There is NO excuse in Scouting for unkind behavior. A Scout is Kind. No matter what. AND, the words and actions of ADULTS are magnified in their importance many times just because they are adults. Some time ago parents of a scout, and the scout, appeared at a troop meeting to "interview" our troop. The dad had all sorts of negative comments about our adult leaders and even scouts in our Troop. (Seriously? You come asking for a place of refuge and criticize a successful, going concern?) I made plain that nothing in the troop would change and I never heard another word from them.

Does it matter?

Find another troop. Your son's friends can follow along. The Scoutmaster's (maybe plural?) behavior is abhorrent and inexcusable. Praise in public; criticize in private (though 2 deep leadership). There is NO REASON your son or you should have to put up with this. "Punishment" has NO place in Scouting.

They have little place in Scouting. I wear brightly colored shirts in the backcountry. Easier for rescue helicopter folks to find me. Be Prepared.

Re Ingersoll Scout Reservation, SW 100+- acres sold, along with the Easterly 187 acres a few minutes ago, leaving about 650 acres. WD Boyce Council.