johnsch322

Both of these are the crux of the issue. Will it work or won't it? The amount of time (20 years or so) is the program worth it to take the risk? As a survivor this is what I wrestle with in forming my pro or anti views. This is why I am on the fence. I first hand know the devastating effects of CSA. I now have contact with many other survivors when just a few years ago I thought I was the only one. I correspond with others who's lives have been more upended than my own and believe there are countless others who no longer dwell on this earth because the pain was more than they could bear the burden of. I can see benefit for some but at what cost to others and yes I also believe there is still abuse happening.

I feel like I am on a school playground and instead of answering a question I get the question asked back to me. No I do not work with abused kids as a scout leader. Are the kids you work with abused in scouting?

Having the ability to see more than one opinion, good or bad. Do you work with kids who were abused in scouting?

Are you talking about Scouts who were abused in BSA? The gentleman worked in law enforcement before he worked for the BSA. "Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson." Excessive Child Sexual Abuse within the BSA was the test but I do not believe all of the lessons have been learned.

This is why I said you are burying your head in the sand. The former Director of Youth Protection says scouts are not safe. I am sure that he had access to more data then you have had (unless you are in a position above or equivalent to him in BSA national). So why don't you want to believe him? Maybe in your small slice of BSA life you have not come across any issues and that in itself is good however I think your experience is a very small piece of a large pie. Asking me for how much adult experience I have had in BSA is like me asking you for how much experience you have had in being sexually assaulted.

I understand it makes no sense to you and as I have stated before I am on the fence. The fact that I and others are on the fence makes this discussion worthwhile. You have had a great scouting life and I am happy for you but a lot of us had exactly the opposite. Barry the above statement makes these discussions relevant. Believe or not believe it is up to you but please do not stick your head in the sand. that fuels the anti BSA discussion.

There are no absolutes in life.

Of course, there is two sides to the fence. Offering good to the community does not absolve one from its sins. As far as schools well you would not have to ask too many people about closing them and you would find an opinion for closing. Why is home schooling on the rise (and it was before the pandemic)?

Reactions to a post says a lot about people. I do not understand the sad face. Is it because it is a sad situation or is it because I am looked at upon as a sad person?

You see it is statements such as the above where I have my doubt if BSA should continue on. Leaders such as @skepticwho want to deflect responsibility away from BSA makes the BSA a dangerous place for youth. I was in the care of the BSA at the time of the assault upon my body, the perpetrators were active adult leaders of the BSA end of story. What transpired afterwards only added to the damage. It is and was the BSA's responsibility to keep perpetrators out of the BSA. After they were caught (if they were caught and most were not) it was the BSA's responsibility to keep them out of any youth's lives whether it was in a BSA environment or any other environment. It was also BSA's moral duty to inform parents and teach children of the dangers. The BSA only did the latter after decades of abuse had occurred. If the BSA did not provide the environment, lack of vigilance and the opportunity far less CSA would have occurred.

From someone who is on the fence as to pro/anti BSA it also would make sense if you said the opposite. The BSA has ruined so many lives how could any one be in support of it?

What a crock of XXXX.

I wasn’t really sure on the image. Thanks for letting me know.

Not sure why I was deleted previously but the Catholic Church vs BSA of who was worse in CSA is like: "THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK" Both are equally guilty of not protecting youth!!

My point is that you most likely have met someone and they never revealed it to you. If you had met me 5 years ago I would have told you about my abuse. My not telling is more common than survivors who told when the abuse occurred or even 10 years later talking about it.

If nothing else, please take from those of us that are survivors that those you love and cherish may be victims but will in most instances not tell anyone.

So sad to say something like this. We are not talking about a cut on a young persons knee. What does this actually mean?

This is the great "tell" in how so many feel about the abuse. If not you it would have been someone else or should I say so many feel that someone would be abused and better them than me?

My original question was: How many ruined lives are acceptable to add good morale decision makers to this world? Followed after a no answer reply so I asked: Why do you find it so hard to answer a basic question? I get the above "800,000 expected victims have not come forward". So I guess the 82,000 is acceptable because 800,000 did not come forward. Wow!! I really am starting to feel as if myself and all other survivors (and the thousands who did not survive) were just part of the cost of doing business as the BSA worked to to add some good morale decision makers to this world.

That was not the question. Why do you find it so hard to answer a basic question? I am sure scouting has been a great program for many people but that is not the question.

Yes, some posters are calling for the end to scouting, but not many. How many ruined lives are acceptable to add good moral decision makers to the world? You should answer this question as it is a question of morality and I am sure you consider yourself a morale person.

Would you ask those who talk about the Holocaust to include the total number of people in the world when they talk about the 5 million killed by the Nazi's?

Of course.

No that is a terrible comparison. It does not even come close to the same thing. Now if you were to say there was a red light that almost every day someone ran that light and people were injured. Sometimes it was the same driver running that causing multiple injuries and when they totaled up the injury's caused from running this light it totaled over 82,000. That might be more accurate.

And here is another fact if or when this settlement is done it will be the largest CSA settlement in history. Yet there are still people saying that the BSA did a better job at YPT than other organization's, Hmmm?