johnsch322

It is a shame these documentaries did not come out 18 months ago. It may have put more public awareness and helped survivors in the bankruptcy settlements.

The number of abused in BSA could even be higher than 82,000. If you were abused and are now mentally incapacitated, dead, or for some personal reason did not want to be part of the case then you are not a claimant. I will give that some of the claims are bogus but someone who constantly calls for balance to not mention these facts is very one sided. How do you know this? My case has been vetted and other cases from survivors within my network have been vetted. Just because a claim has not been vetted does not make it untrue. There is nothing surprising that survivors did not bring this up until years later. I myself told no one for 50 plus years and only after I saw a couple of Facebook ads. Yet BSA knew that 11 plus youth in my troop had been abused by one of my abusers. No one approached me which really says BSA wanted to make as little furor over this as possible. The fact that the files existed at all speaks volumes that the BSA knew there was a problem, tried to keep the public unaware of it and most grossly tried to keep it out of the hands of survivors until the Oregon Supreme Court compelled them to. How many more times are you going to keep beating on this worn out carpet of an excuse? The verbiage "unwillingness of the victim/survivor or his family" is victim blaming in extreme. You cannot and should not use "societal positions on such things in most of the time frames" as even in todays society there is shame in being a victim. Most victims told no one because of the guilt, shame, and confusion. Hypocrisy at it's greatest. For you "some manner" means very little compensation. Look deep inside your self and you will find that the only true reason you want this bankruptcy to end is because you think the stench that surrounds the BSA will go away. Earlier today I asked you to please do not speak on behalf of survivors and I would like to explain that a little further, it is not your story or your journey in life. You have not lived with the mental turmoil or the physical issues that were caused by members of the BSA. You have not lived with the awakening, the sorrow nor any other aspect of how the bankruptcy has affected us the survivors. Feel free to speak on how this issue and all that it is has affected your own personal life. Feel free to speak about how you see all of this affecting the Boy Scouts as that is your personal journey. I would never try to speak on behalf of a Holocaust survivor as I was never in that situation. The end of the bankruptcy I believe will not end the suffering, mental anguish, or the difficulties that I and most of my brethren are going thru. It will not erase the memories of what happened to us or the fear of what may lie ahead for us. Death itself may not be the end because if there is a heaven or a hell and if we still have memory than all of this will never go away. So please do not speak for us.

Not sure of your profession, but you do know you are debating with lawyers (myself not included) don't you?

Outright owned.

I was not advocating for a BSA National Chapter 7 only trying to shed light on the "nobody gets nothing" idea.

I am in California and the LC which I was part of has about 19 million in assets of which under the plan they are giving up about 3 million but that pales in comparison to the insurance companies.

I may be mistaken but the entities that should be praying are the LC's, CO's and insurance companies. Those of us in open states will soon have cases filed in State court (California by end of the year). A BSA Chapter 7 does not include anyone but National.

Please do not speak for survivors. Frankly you are way underqualified and have a bias against survivors views.

Anyone see something ominous or nefarious in the cancellation of the June 17th hearing and rescheduling to July 20th?

No. Just suggested that you acquaint yourself with the past few years of discussions and debates. Is that to much to ask?

I think you should read all the threads relating to the bankruptcy before you ask this question. I believe all aspects of the bankruptcy has been discussed and debated at some point.

So does anyone know what the real value of the camps and property owned by the LC's?

Can you provide a link where Kosnoff is quoted saying that? Obviously not your champion but he is a champion to quite a few.

Why is the answer Kosnoff when he did not write the article nor was he quoted in the article?

Amen to these thoughts. For over 50 years I believed I was the only victim but now I know I am a strong survivor and I have other survivors to lean on when I need them.

I for one am glad that that the scab was ripped off. Now maybe it can be just a scar. I also believe the only way BSA was going to make meaningful changes was for them to go thru this process also. I believe I speak for more survivors that feel this way than don't.

We are a little feisty today LOL. I don't see @ThenNow saying anything in the vein that you are saying. I believe (and if I am wrong correct me) he is saying just that the third party releases are being paid for (does not matter what the relationship is the debtor) for less money than they would have to normally pay. Kind of like a get out of jail card for 10% on the dollar for the whatever should be levied.

Thank you for your response but I would like to ask you where I advocated censorship? Mental health and how it is dealt with is not a cop out. I have a child who suffers from depression and she feels like not enough resources are there for her in High School. I would like also to point out that gun violence does not just kill children but also adults. I am sure that many times more adults die from gun violence than children.

Gun control and the second amendment is a touchy subject for all, not just the BSA. The guns themselves are not the issue rather society as a whole. There is not enough attention put into mental health for one. More needs to be done to identify those who are more prone to mass violence. We need to do more for those with mental health issues even if it means more mental health hospitals. Violent video games have made more young males prone to glorify the mass deaths that incur within the games and take those glorifications into their own reality. Certain musical genres glorify violence and death and that has contributed to guns and death. We have become to liberal towards criminals and prison. We need laws that have bite in them. Just look at cities like New York and San Francisco where violence and the lack of bite in the laws (sentencing) has made those cities so violent. We need to teach to young people the value of life. Not just of others but their own lives as well. I do not have guns in my house and that to me is a personal choice. One because of my own and my daughters depression, but also as my family has had gun violence touch our lives. My brother murdered his wife and subsequently killed himself yet I believe in the second amendment.

I may be wrong, but I think that the majority of the 83% have been more concerned with the financial aspect of the reorganization and BSA did not enter bankruptcy to get input into Youth Protection. Any youth protection improvements are just a byproduct (though needed) to the BSA program. I am quite sure that the total expenditure out of the over $100 million only a couple percentage went towards crafting new policies.

That may have been me. I never told anyone for 50 years. If no one was told how would the parents know? Much more is known today and I personally know much more as I have come to grips with what happened to me and how the trauma has manifested in my life.

And that is why I said past 10 past 5 and past year. However, an asterisk denoting that most male victims may not come forward for the next 10 to 20 years.

You are correct there is a big difference. Do you think a drug company or any company wants warnings on their product? No never but past actions or current sometimes necessitates such actions. Discussion and ideas can make things better. I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation. If I float a solution or a recommendation whether it is something more direct or making parents more aware I might just be part of the solution. Alas your "nuff said" is not part of a solution. There can never be enough said about CSA and YPT.

In the auto industry it is called the NHTSA safety reports (1 to 5 stars) and in the pharmaceutical industry they are called "Pharmacy Auxiliary Labels" (Drug Warnings). I am sure I can find more examples.

I think this is an imperative thought. In the BSA history has taught us there was. I am presuming you were over the age of 18 when you were in the military as I was but a child in the BSA does not get to make his decision to join BSA. He may have a desire to join but it is parents who sign you up yet the victims are the children. Hard statistics based on history should be presented to parents when they go to sign up their children should be given to them including the details of 82,000 claimants in the bankruptcy with the distinct possibility of many more. The rate of incidences in the past 10 years, 5 years and past year with a caveat that the full extent of CSA will not be known for 20 to 30 years. When I buy a bottle of aspirin I get more warnings of possible side effects than when a parent signs up there child.